Political party Push Bill to Outlaw Bots From Snatching Up Online Goods

[adarw]

Summary

a small group of house and Senate memebers of a certain party are introducing an act to stop people from using online bots to buy consumer goods such as consoles and GPUs. this will be expanding on a law that paased in 2016 that banned the use of bots for public events (ie, music, concerts, sports games) ticket sales. this act will be called 'Stopping Grinch Bots Act' in relation to "the Grinch who stole Christmas"

 

Quotes

Quote

“The bicameral bill will crack down on cyber Grinches using ‘bot’ technology to quickly buy up whole inventories of popular holiday toys and resell them to parents at higher prices,” the lawmakers said in a statement.

 

Quote

 

“Our Grinch Bots Act works to level the playing field and prevent scalpers from sucking hardworking parents dry this holiday season,” Tonko added. “I urge my colleagues to join me in passing this legislation immediately to stop these Grinch bots from stealing the holidays.” 

The lawmaker’s last attempt to pass the bill seems to have stalled in Congressional committees. However, the ongoing supply chain troubles facing the US may spark more support for the bill when ________ narrowly control both chambers of Congress.

 

My thoughts

this seems like a win, not a full win but a small win, but after reading a comment i think i should share it lol.

 

Sources

https://www.pcmag.com/news/democrats-push-bill-to-outlaw-bots-from-snatching-up-online-goods

[Ykcud]

I can only hope this passes in time, but I suspect that the scalpers won't even listen to the law. Maybe, just maybe, this will get the ball rolling for bringing down prices for GPUs, but I am not holding my breath. These GPU prices have been here for a while and almost feels like a dystopian normal now.

[Arika]

Ban the bots and people make the bots better to avoid detection.

 

making them illegal wont change anything.

[tim0901]

Ah yes, because this will absolutely make a difference.

 

A similar law has indeed been in place for ticket-bots for years - in both the US and the UK. Both of them have been almost completely ineffective at stopping the problem.

 

I can't see how this will be any different.

[Chiyawa]

Hmm... Interesting, but it will be not possible if they don't ban all types of public VPN and make each IP tracable. You never guess how many bots comes from TunnelBear or Nord VPN servers. Attackers use those as a gateway since you couldn't trace them to their location.

[adarw]

i think this would affect those big scalping operations more than those people who scalp 1 or 2 gpu. i really hope this works.

[aisle9]

1 hour ago, adarw said:

Summary

a small group of house and Senate memebers of a certain party are introducing an act to stop people from using online bots to buy consumer goods such as consoles and GPUs. this will be expanding on a law that paased in 2016 that banned the use of bots for public events (ie, music, concerts, sports games) ticket sales. this act will be called 'Stopping Grinch Bots Act' in relation to "the Grinch who stole Christmas"

 

Quotes

 

 

My thoughts

this seems like a win, not a full win but a small win, but after reading a comment i think i should share it lol.

 

Sources

https://www.pcmag.com/news/democrats-push-bill-to-outlaw-bots-from-snatching-up-online-goods

Sued out of existence in 3...2...1...

 

Two problems: one, bots outside of US jurisdiction. Two, companies suing the shit out of the government for telling them how to run their business.

[Donut417]

13 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Two problems: one, bots outside of US jurisdiction. Two, companies suing the shit out of the government for telling them how to run their business.

The government has the right to regulate. Anti Scalping laws already exist at state levels, but are only invoked when a state of emergency is declared. The problem is enforcement. The government has no good way to enforce this law. 

[Elisis]

2 hours ago, aisle9 said:

companies suing the shit out of the government for telling them how to run their business.

What makes you think companies have the right to do that? If companies cared that much about not following regulations set by the government of an area, they can just leave that area. They're not above the law.

[Lightwreather]

The one thing I'm thinking about it how they're going to enforce this

[poochyena]

Isn't the whole reason this is even an issue is because its near impossible to tell who is a bot and who is real? Look at the lengths LTT had to go through to ensure real gamers got GPUs. If it were a simple thing to detect bots, they would have done that instead I'm sure.

How could you possibly determine who is or isn't a bot? Think about EXTREMELY common features of modern browsers that auto-populate form details. Would that be considered bot use? You can't just look to see how fast data is enter or navigated on a page since there is a lot of automation a normal person can use while buying products.

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, adarw said:

 

 

 

My thoughts

this seems like a win, not a full win but a small win, but after reading a comment i think i should share it lol.

 

Sources

https://www.pcmag.com/news/democrats-push-bill-to-outlaw-bots-from-snatching-up-online-goods

It won't do anything about items being scaled on amazon and ebay though. All the scalped items will be bought in Canada and sold on ebay.com without putting some teeth into the legislation to address both the buying and selling side.

 

Addressing the greed side really needs to be done, and why stop at luxury goods, apply it to "house flipping" as well. 

 

Like this is how I'd address both sides.

a) buying any movable property/product (eg something that isn't nailed down, and isn't a permanent fixture, eg a GPU and a Car would both qualify) across state or country lines with the intent to take advantage of loose or non-existent customer-protection laws on pricing would impose a tax penalty of 110% on the "profit*" made over the retail or list price from the manufacturer. eg if you bought a $1000 GPU and sold it for $1500, you'd be charged $550 in taxes thus resulting in a net $50 loss. If it's within the same state, then the minimum tax penalty shall be the greater of the federal (110%) or state rate.

b) selling any movable property/product, must be provided with the original receipt if the product is less than 24 months old, and claimed on taxes.

 

Wherein, the item is a fixed property (eg real estate/land) if the seller does not reside or take physical ownership of the property for 24 consecutive months, the seller will refund to the buyer the difference between the sale price and the land assessment value, or original purchase value, whichever. By which "take physical ownership" in this case means "actually live in it", not renting it or having it taken care of by property management companies. Likewise, if a property is not the owners principle residence, the city/municipality may charge to the property owner the cost of all maintenance, and services, even if the owner has disconnected or canceled them**. The utility companies (electricity, gas, water) may not be disconnected, and will be continuously billed against the property or it's taxes, and the city is permitted to "break-in" to properties that are exhibiting neglect to rectify it. 

 

*By which "profit" is the difference between the advertised MSRP by the manufacturer+shipping price, not the wholesale price.

 

**This is because people do buy vintage/heritage properties and then let them rot without electricity/heating so they can demolish them as being "unfit to live in" so they can build their mcmansion on the spot or flip the property to another developer.

 

 

[Sauron]

4 hours ago, aisle9 said:

Two problems: one, bots outside of US jurisdiction.

Not a problem, you can block outgoing shipments purchased through suspicious means.

4 hours ago, aisle9 said:

Two, companies suing the shit out of the government for telling them how to run their business.

Since when is it illegal for the government to regulate business operations? If you can somehow argue this would be inconstitutional it's one thing, but otherwise the federal government can do whatever the heck it wants provided it can muster a majority.

2 hours ago, poochyena said:

Isn't the whole reason this is even an issue is because its near impossible to tell who is a bot and who is real? Look at the lengths LTT had to go through to ensure real gamers got GPUs.

Making sure you're a "real gamer" is significantly more involved than making sure you're human.

[wanderingfool2]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

It won't do anything about items being scaled on amazon and ebay though. All the scalped items will be bought in Canada and sold on ebay.com without putting some teeth into the legislation to address both the buying and selling side.

All bills that intend to capture this kind of behaviour will also capture legit people as well.

 

Since the house flipping was brought up, we introduced speculative buyers tax here...and there are already businesses who have to pay heafty taxes (because they were zones as commercial/residential but utilized the space as commercial).  A guy who lived in his house for 20+ years, also will likely be forced out of his home because he can't afford the speculative buyers tax on his home (just because his wife who lives in the US makes more than him).  The list continues...a lot of the "solutions" I could see having unforeseen ripple effects.  Actually, I could see laws like this making it so that companies like TicketMaster secure an even stronger foothold on their market.

 

(Also at least here, heritage homes have strict regulations on them, like requiring certain maintenance)

 

Honestly, the best way this could be reduced is making companies not sell to the same address, or same credit card.  Sure there will be people who utilize multiple addresses and cards, but that greatly reduced the impact.

[Doobeedoo]

Even skipping buying online, I just wish that I can go to retail for next gen cards and get it at MSRP and that they can sell one per person that shows.

[cj09beira]

They really should be trying to fix the root issue, instead of wasting time with this, wanna know how to stop scalping, just help increase volume.

Seems just like they did with petrol, Close down a pipeline then complain there isn't enough petrol so they release National reserve crude into the market, a grand total of 2 days worth of crude, which does jack shit to solve the problem (and i am ignoring how it was sour crude which will likely be sold to overseas).

[adarw]

8 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

They really should be trying to fix the root issue, instead of wasting time with this, wanna know how to stop scalping, just help increase volume.

 

they are trying to do that, they're just slow, its understandable since they need to design and build new fabs.

[cj09beira]

6 minutes ago, adarw said:

they are trying to do that, they're just slow, its understandable since they need to design and build new fabs.

a very large part of the problem right now is more so getting the product out of ships and into the stores, as there are severe bottlenecks in the supply chain right now.

ps: talking about product in general not just pc parts.

[adarw]

Just now, cj09beira said:

a very large part of the problem right now is more so getting the product out of ships and into the stores, as there are severe bottlenecks in the supply chain right now.

ps: talking about product in general not just pc parts.

eh, im not knowledgeable to agree or disagree. 

[Fasterthannothing]

9 hours ago, adarw said:

i think this would affect those big scalping operations more than those people who scalp 1 or 2 gpu. i really hope this works.

That's funny it would literally be the exact opposite. The home bot used would be worried about getting caught while the people making these and using them on a large scale will just be using VPNs already

[adarw]

1 minute ago, SlidewaysZ said:

That's funny it would literally be the exact opposite. The home bot used would be worried about getting caught while the people making these and using them on a large scale will just be using VPNs already

but if the laws work in a fashion of if this website is in the us anywhere in the world would still have to cooperate.

[Donut417]

22 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

a very large part of the problem right now is more so getting the product out of ships and into the stores, as there are severe bottlenecks in the supply chain right now.

ps: talking about product in general not just pc parts.

The president has kinda solved that problem. He started issuing fines to the ports if they dont get their shit together. Ive heard that customers have like 3 days to get their shit from the ports before fines are issued on them as well. This has lit a fire under everyones ass. Its only a matter of time before that part of the problem is solved. The trucker shortage will likely never be solved, so it just means higher prices for consumers as companies have to pay more for shipping. 

[DeScruff]

This isn't going to be enforceable.

At best this will deal with bigger operations, or let someone pull an 'Al Capone tax evasion' like charge on a person/group that they already want to book.
Don't have enough evidence on a hacker groups other activities? Book em for using bots to scalp PS5s!

[BuckGup]

I don't understand, what's the difference between a bot and a human buying something from the merchants perspective? Is the classification of a bot just a really fast human? Some might say it's because a human didn't actually purchase it but software programmed with intent has been shown to be liable on the programmer. Also the entire stock exchange is a bot war for any millisecond gained over your competition so are they going to ban these too? Or like others have said buying property instantly with bots that offer well over asking. Will this be banned too? A GPU and PS5 are not essential items to survive and people are paying the prices scalpers offer so the real issue is the people buying luxury items from scalpers

[Stahlmann]

25 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

I don't understand, what's the difference between a bot and a human buying something from the merchants perspective?

I don't think this has anything to do with what sellers want.

 

25 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Is the classification of a bot just a really fast human? Some might say it's because a human didn't actually purchase it but software programmed with intent has been shown to be liable on the programmer. Also the entire stock exchange is a bot war for any millisecond gained over your competition so are they going to ban these too?

So because it's okay for one thing it's okay for another? I don't know much about stock stuff but i think we have to start somewhere.

 

25 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Will this be banned too? A GPU and PS5 are not essential items to survive and people are paying the prices scalpers offer so the real issue is the people buying luxury items from scalpers

Yes, they're not essential, but for me scalpers are just another batch of people who like to make money no matter what, even if they ruin someone else's day in doing so. I'm lucky that i'm not affected anymore myself as i bought my GPU before all of this started but i can fully understand the hate towards scalpers. They are literally the manifestation of greed imo.