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Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger Declares 'AMD's Lead Is Over' After Alder Lake, Sapphire Rapids

Lightwreather
By Lightwreather
in Tech News
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Posted

That lead might be short-lived. On the other hand, Intel has done remarkably well in performance using older lithography; meaning those chips run really hot. But I agree, that gap has closed.

If both AMD and Intel were using the same node, Intel would almost assuredly have the performance advantage.

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Sounds like another marketing nonsense from Intel.

A PC Enthusiast since 2011
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4 hours ago, Mel0nMan said:

So I guess this is the time when Intel takes back over and we'll have to wait another 8 years for a new or leading CPU from AMD again!

dear god i hope not, i got into computers during this hell and it just wasn't fun seeing intel bringing out a 'new, improved and more efficient' cpu every year that did nothing but slow down the industry and ensure people had to upgrade their mb as well, getting them even more money.

ryzen was a godsend, it came at a time when we thought that it was the end of CPU innovation and it fucking knocked intel off their horse when they weren't looking and they won't get back up on it for a long ass time.

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I could believe alder lake beats Zen 3, but they again AMD may release Zen 3D which would probably beat alder lake.

 

Mobile has shown that Intel's 10nm has better scaling with power than Zen 3, so I wouldn't believe just yet in claims that they'll beat Epyc. Efficiency is what matters a lot and Intel is miles behind here.

 

But then we come to the part that makes me wonder what has he been smoking, because clearly he has:

 

4 hours ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

leadership process, leadership software, unquestioned leadership on critical new workloads like AI, graphics

Intel has "unquestioned leadership" over AMD in terms of GRAPHICS?! Has he not heard of RDNA2? And since when is Intel 10nm++ better than TSMC's 5nm that Apple uses? (ik it has density simmilar to 7nm, but still worse than 5nm).

 

Also I don't know what software Intel produces, but their graphics drivers are absolute rubbish at the moment.

 

And the AI... Well, they might be better than AMD here, but they are well behind Nvidia, so clearly not an "unquestioned leadership". Same for graphics btw.

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If Intels engineers working on their CPUs are anything like the ones who work on their HPC solutions I would say Pat Gelsinger is full of shit

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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49 minutes ago, StDragon said:

That lead might be short-lived. On the other hand, Intel has done remarkably well in performance using older lithography; meaning those chips run really hot. But I agree, that gap has closed.

If both AMD and Intel were using the same node, Intel would almost assuredly have the performance advantage.

was intel really that far behind or behind at all considering the whole package?

performance yes but igp, memory controller, stability, etc dont play a part?

i have 4 ryzen systems and  5 intel (soon to be 3)

ill tell you memory on those ryzen systems was a bitch until about a yr ago(memory, constant need to update bios and some other shit), and also the igp does play huge factor considering gpu shit,

 

funny thing is when we compare best mainstream amd vs intel there are things that just work or are included on intel(igp)

but amds issues has landed me couple ryzen systems for cheap because of the issues others couldnt deal with or understand lol

 

 

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6 minutes ago, pas008 said:

was intel really that far behind or behind at all considering the whole package?

performance yes but igp, memory controller, stability, etc dont play a part?

i have 4 ryzen systems and  5 intel (soon to be 3)

ill tell you memory on those ryzen systems was a bitch until about a yr ago(memory, constant need to update bios and some other shit), and also the igp does play huge factor considering gpu shit,

 

funny thing is when we compare best mainstream amd vs intel there are things that just work or are included on intel(igp)

but amds issues has landed me couple ryzen systems for cheap because of the issues others couldnt deal with or understand lol

 

 

Intel and AMD both offer CPUs with and without igps so I don't think that's a real selling point. Considering AMDs APUs run laps around Intel's integrated graphics

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
7 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Intel and AMD both offer CPUs with and without igps so I don't think that's a real selling point. Considering AMDs APUs run laps around Intel's integrated graphics

but dont they lose in single and multicore scores then?

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1 minute ago, pas008 said:

but dont they lose in single and multicore scores then?

Right now both AMD and Intel are trading blows in various benchmarks. In some areas, AMD comes out ahead and vice versa. Intel's new CPU will support PCIe 5.0 (not that its needed right now).

My last two PCs I built were AMD Ryzen, and I don't regret. I have no plans to upgrade or replace them anytime soon. But if I were to build another PC in the next 12 months, I would seriously be taking a hard look at Intel. In the end though, it comes down to price, performance, and an upgrade path outlook.

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5 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

I doubt it.  You see, what happened there was a guy who got outed made a huge assumption.  He basically thought "moar coars!"  was more important than single thread performance, thus we had the FX line.  Dr. Lisa Su is basically trained by god tier engineers from TI and IBM.  Intel's claim is laughable at best.  They're intimidated by competition.

I wouldn't be so quick to count Intel out. Their engineers are some of the best in the world and they have a lot a lot of money behind them. Does Intel finally see AMD as competition yes but that doesn't mean they are dead in the water. For the record though I couldn't give a single crap who is the fastest. I just want a chip competition so I can buy fast cheap CPUs.

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7 hours ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

 

Quote

 

 

1. "So this period of time when people could say, 'Hey, [AMD] is leading,' that's over. We are back with a very defined view of what it requires to be leadership in every dimension: leadership product, leadership [chip] packaging, leadership process, leadership software, unquestioned leadership on critical new workloads like AI, graphics, media, power-performance, enabling again the ecosystem. This is what we will be doing with aggressive actions and programs over the next couple of years."

2. We won't dismiss them of the good work that they've done, but that's over with Alder Lake and Sapphire Rapids."

 

1. "I know how to use buzzwords that in most corporations are utterly meaningless and have no change on process or leadership within company operations day to day!"

2. "We won't dismiss them, we're nice and want better PR. So we're going to dismiss them now by saying they're done, we're better at all aspects and we plan to basically yank our trousers down to laugh at them while mooning them in the nicest publicly visible way we can"

 

Insanity is not the absence of sanity, but the willingness to ignore it for a purpose. Chaos is the result of this choice. I relish in both.

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1 hour ago, pas008 said:

but dont they lose in single and multicore scores then?

 

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

Right now both AMD and Intel are trading blows in various benchmarks. In some areas, AMD comes out ahead and vice versa. Intel's new CPU will support PCIe 5.0 (not that its needed right now).

My last two PCs I built were AMD Ryzen, and I don't regret. I have no plans to upgrade or replace them anytime soon. But if I were to build another PC in the next 12 months, I would seriously be taking a hard look at Intel. In the end though, it comes down to price, performance, and an upgrade path outlook.

 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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8 hours ago, Dracarris said:

When is AMD expected to release their next gen? And do we have any clue which improvements over 5000 to expect?

zen 3 with extra cache is next leaks say Q1, there are some noise about a zen 3+, but i wouldn't count on it, then zen 4 in late 2021 or early 2022

6 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Who really cares anyway? They all know X86 is heading the way of southbridges, IDE and ISA which is why they're all scrambling to jump on the ARM/RISC train as fast as possible.

x86 is going nowhere, there are decades of software that keeps working because we are on x86, it would take quite a lot to change that outside of assholes like apple that brick your software when ever they feel like.

6 hours ago, porina said:

Looking forward to the "interpretation" on this forum when it releases then? 😄 It will be interesting to see how it performs, if we ever get past the endless argument of what to compare and how. 

imnho it should be similar cost vs similar cost.

5 hours ago, StDragon said:

That lead might be short-lived. On the other hand, Intel has done remarkably well in performance using older lithography; meaning those chips run really hot. But I agree, that gap has closed.

If both AMD and Intel were using the same node, Intel would almost assuredly have the performance advantage.

i don't think that is necessarily true, intel would loose their clock advantage, and amd would still have better binning, better costs per core, and more flexibility in general.

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5 hours ago, StDragon said:

Right now both AMD and Intel are trading blows in various benchmarks. In some areas, AMD comes out ahead and vice versa. Intel's new CPU will support PCIe 5.0 (not that its needed right now).

My last two PCs I built were AMD Ryzen, and I don't regret. I have no plans to upgrade or replace them anytime soon. But if I were to build another PC in the next 12 months, I would seriously be taking a hard look at Intel. In the end though, it comes down to price, performance, and an upgrade path outlook.

 

3 hours ago, BuckGup said:

 

 

Exactly trading blows

that's my point did amd have a real (big)lead in the first place mainstream wise of course

5700g lost single and multi threaded performance once igp comes into play which has been part of Intels offerings of top mainstream for the longest time

 

We are all enthusiasts, stability and configuration of our systems we understand but overall package wise Intel does seem to just work easier especially for a non enthusiast stand point

 

I love all my systems. Ryzen ones are awesome but I even love my old haswell Maxwell build (giving away soon)

Gaming wise either work about the same overall unless you are still in 2016 on 1080p 

 

 

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8 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Leaks are one thing, but that's more speculation based than anything.  I'm waiting to see reports and tests from GN and Level1 before I believe them.

Gaming performance is always "take it with a grain of salt" one thing people forget to factor in is that some devs only optimize for one platform.

Architecture day did give us a good insight at adl. It will be faster than Zen 3 and might even be very competitive even after Zen 3+vcache comes out. Don't be too quick to rule out Intel. Had they had better management and not become complacent they would still be crushing it.

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5 hours ago, comander said:

This is basically 5 years of progress in one release. We're finally getting 10nm on desktop and we're getting multiple generations of CPU uarch improvements all at once. 

I know RKL was a thing but it was also a half-measure. 

This is the biggest jump Intel has had since conroe and I look forward to it. 

I can see AMD keeping up if they're able to add enough 3DvCache to their higher end products. This is a bit brute forcy but if it works, it works. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the battle ensue... and then for Zen 4 to slightly leap from ADL and then for RaptorLake to be a thing and... the cycle just continues. 

ADL is an evolution of RKL combined with hybrid cores.

Conroe (Core 2) was ~50% IPC improvement over pentium 4 northwood (I believe Conroe was the evolution of core, on "Pentium M" originally, I forgot what it was back then, Meron or something.

 

RKL is 19% IPC over any Skylake core (CML), and ADL is about the same over RKL.  So if you ignore that RKL existed, then yes that's a big jump.

But the ever increasing amount of "Internal parity errors" on overclocked CML chips (and even on some STOCK chips) in games makes some people VERY happy to have RKL's stability, even with all the Gearing issues with the new memory controller, which suffered due to it not being designed directly for the RKL backport.

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very comical of them to say, when they held the CPU space for so long.

Spoiler

much comiclake, high giga hurtz, very old intel refreshlake. and shouldn't take much for intel to recover some lead due to their knowledge of previous CPUs even if some are quite the same old stuff repeated.

 

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12 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Intel needs to back up their claims, this is just PR talk to hype up shareholders. But I think the more important news of this is Intel possibly admitting Alder Lake won't be competitive with AMD.

This is exactly what this means:

13 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

I wonder if this has to do with them getting away from traditional benchmarks, and wanting us to not use benchmarks to compare them to AMD...

Their big little won't be able to compete in certain (or all) work loads and that's why they don't want to have these comparisons. Otherwise this statement (did intel actually say this?) doesn't even make sense. 

 

 

Btw i understand why, this is like a new start for intel, a completey new concept which long term might evolve to something that "can" beat the competition,  but,  its actually really bad PR. Depends on what AMD is doing , how bad. Maybe AMD has suddenly similar ideas... who knows. 

The direction tells you... the direction. 

-Scott Manley, 2021

 

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dp

The direction tells you... the direction. 

-Scott Manley, 2021

 

Softwares used:

Corsair Link (Anime Edition) 

MSI Afterburner 

OpenRGB

Lively Wallpaper 

OBS Studio

Shutter Encoder

Avidemux

FSResizer

Audacity 

VLC

WMP

GIMP

HWiNFO64

Paint

3D Paint

GitHub Desktop 

Superposition 

Prime95

Aida64

GPUZ

CPUZ

Generic Logviewer

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I've seen power consumption "leaks" that still look high compared to AMD, but modern GPU's still consume much more power.

Don't forget on Intel, (peak) power consumption and therefore power efficiency is a choice for the system builder. Just most enthusiasts leave it on unlimited, trading more performance for worse efficiency. AMD doesn't give you that choice without voiding warranty.

 

11 hours ago, Ydfhlx said:

Intel has "unquestioned leadership" over AMD in terms of GRAPHICS?! Has he not heard of RDNA2? And since when is Intel 10nm++ better than TSMC's 5nm that Apple uses? (ik it has density simmilar to 7nm, but still worse than 5nm).

The interview is forward looking, and not about today. Intel 7 process (formerly 10SFE) is finally supposed to be parity in efficiency compared to TSMC 7nm. They know they're playing catch up, and have stated an intent to take process lead in 2025. They think they can deploy whatever the next gen UV machines are before others to enable that.

 

8 hours ago, SlidewaysZ said:

Does Intel finally see AMD as competition yes but that doesn't mean they are dead in the water.

I don't think Intel ever got complacent. Their 10nm was broken for a long time, and that dictated what they could or couldn't do in that timeframe. If you have lemons, make lemonade.

 

8 hours ago, comander said:

I can see AMD keeping up if they're able to add enough 3DvCache to their higher end products. This is a bit brute forcy but if it works, it works.  

It is an interesting approach. AMD's strategy particularly since Zen 2 is bandwidth constrained, and caches are their way of working around that, as opposed to better internal connectivity. It will help in some things, but not others. It'll probably make little to no difference to Cinebench for example, which has shown practically zero difference with ram speeds.

 

6 hours ago, cj09beira said:

imnho it should be similar cost vs similar cost.

MSRP or street pricing? CPU only or system? How well do you balance those test systems? This is in part why I personally like to ignore pricing when comparing CPUs, and only factor it in at the end.

Gaming system: R7 7800X3D, Asus ROG Strix B650E-F Gaming Wifi, Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE ARGB, Corsair Vengeance 2x 32GB 6000C30, RTX 4070, MSI MPG A850G, Fractal Design North, Samsung 990 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Productivity system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, 64GB ram (mixed), RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, random 1080p + 720p displays.
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

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6 hours ago, cj09beira said:

zen 3 with extra cache is next leaks say Q1, there are some noise about a zen 3+, but i wouldn't count on it, then zen 4 in late 2021 or early 2022

I guess you mean Zen 4 in late 2022. Which could give Intel a solid year of being ahead.

6 hours ago, cj09beira said:

x86 is going nowhere, there are decades of software that keeps working because we are on x86, it would take quite a lot to change that outside of assholes like apple that brick your software when ever they feel like.

Are you aware of Apple's efforts to make basically every x86 application run on their ARM ISA, including putting the x86 memory model into the M1 silicon? Basically nothing was "bricked" but instead ran without app authors lifting a finger at decent to impressive performance.

But yeah x86 is probably indeed going nowhere, we'll be stuck with it forever on PC as no one has the balls to actually finally cut off the support for 25yr old software that no one cares to update.

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I actually believe him.

As someone who bought 5600x and realized AMD is not that cheaper, not that better and has some bugs on releases

If I could (I think I still can, because I'm in the return window), I would definitely get Alder Laker instead of the 5600x.

 

But of course now everything around is expensive: DDR5,  the motherboards and so on.. so.. I will wait a little bit more

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6 hours ago, cj09beira said:

x86 is going nowhere, there are decades of software that keeps working because we are on x86, it would take quite a lot to change that outside of assholes like apple that brick your software when ever they feel like.

Agree to disagree, macOS jumping to ARM has already started the ball rolling. I don't see RISC making much of an impact in the server space but for us normies at home RISC will become our standard platform by the end of this century. Why wouldn't it? Apple have shown it can be competitive and RISC devices are easier and cheaper to manufacture than X86 plus X86 is reaching its limits anyway.

 

Even after everything that's happened with Linux over the past 5 years there are still some notable devs who refuse to port anything over to it, M1 is a first gen platform and it already has most of the missing stuff built and ready.

 

This is why Nvidia want to buy ARM and both Intel & AMD have stated their interest in creating ARM (or RISC V) platform, they all see the writing on the wall.

Main Rig:-

Ryzen 7 3800X | Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming | 16GB Team Group Dark Pro 3600Mhz | Corsair MP600 1TB PCIe Gen 4 | Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse | Corsair H115i Platinum | WD Black 1TB | WD Green 4TB | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 650W | Asus TUF GT501 | Samsung C27HG70 1440p 144hz HDR FreeSync 2 | Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS |

 

Server:-

Intel NUC running Server 2019 + Synology DSM218+ with 2 x 4TB Toshiba NAS Ready HDDs (RAID0)

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