Apple must allow other forms of in-app purchases, rules judge in Epic v. Apple

[sounds]

 

Summary

The judge issued a permanent injunction. Epic wins.

 

Quotes

Quote

Judge Yvonne Gonzalez-Rogers issued a permanent injunction in the Epic v. Apple case on Friday morning, handing a major setback to Apple’s App Store model.

 

Under the new order, Apple is:

 

permanently restrained and enjoined from prohibiting developers from including in their apps and their metadata buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms, in addition to In-App Purchasing and (ii) communicating with customers through points of contact obtained voluntarily from customers through account registration within the app.

 

My thoughts

I wonder if Apple will appeal the case... ? Yes, Apple will appeal.

 

@HelpfulTechWizard wants to have the tweets down-thread mentioned here, so yeah. Epic didn't get everything they wanted.

 

Sources

https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/10/22662320/epic-apple-ruling-injunction-judge-court-app-store

 

Full ruling from the judge: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21060631/apple-epic-judgement.pdf

[Helpful Tech Witch]

Finally, we can get back to writing our foot notes on fruit

[Lightwreather]

I have no doubts that this'll probably end on the table of the Supreme court

[Fasterthannothing]

Wow awesome news people should have the choice to choose how they get to pay.

[SignatureSigner]

Thoughts...

While I see this as a big win for smaller and larger devs for the consumer it can add a layer of complication for say you want to buy somthing in an app with apple card money but they only accept a dif payment method. I understand why this is a good thing I just hope it doesn't turn into a mess. On the other hand I rlly think it will be nice to subscribe to spotify through your phone lol.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, SignatureSigner said:

Thoughts...

While I see this as a big win for smaller and larger devs for the consumer it can add a layer of complication for say you want to buy somthing in an app with apple card money but they only accept a dif payment method. I understand why this is a good thing I just hope it doesn't turn into a mess. On the other hand I rlly think it will be nice to subscribe to spotify through your phone lol.

you can still pay with an Apple Card, you just don’t have to pay the apple tax, it’s just a normal credit or debit card (I don’t know which it is)

[CT854]

26 minutes ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

I have no doubts that this'll probably end on the table of the Supreme court

This is about as SCOTUS-worthy of a case as you can get in the tech sphere. There is some juicy precedent that could be set which is exciting for those interested in corporate jurisprudence, though I'm not terribly optimistic about how things will go down. My lack of optimism could be unfounded since I don't think I've really seen any rulings of a similar nature come out of the current court, but we'll see.

[Skiiwee29]

This is only half the story btw... Epic is still banned from the Apple Store AND they must pay Apple back 30%, or about $3.6 million from the money they made before this ruling happened.

 

 

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

4 minutes ago, Skiiwee29 said:

This is only half the story btw... Epic is still banned from the Apple Store AND they must play Apple back 30%, or about $3.6 million from the money they made before this ruling happened.

 

 

 

Op can you add this to the op?

[Brooksie359]

Tbh I sorta find this verdict somewhat stupid. If the app is hosted on their app store then they should get a cut of the sales if that is how they are making revenue off of the app store and how they maintain the app store. Really I could only see an argument of making them allow a competing app store on IOS but I guess that likely won't happen. 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

Tbh I sorta find this verdict somewhat stupid. If the app is hosted on their app store then they should get a cut of the sales if that is how they are making revenue off of the app store and how they maintain the app store. Really I could only see an argument of making them allow a competing app store on IOS but I guess that likely won't happen. 

Id guess they’d make revenue off of 1% of the App Store purchases,

but apple made this their own problem.

They refuse to let you sidelode apps, they refuse 3rd party app stores, you have to do what they say.

nit they can’t say you have to use our payment software

[lewdicrous]

*Happy Floatplane noises*

 

More choices = more better.

[PocketNerd]

1 hour ago, sounds said:

-snip-

 

Which is funny because Apple thinks they "won", since Epic has to pay them the "Apple Tax" they ducked out on.

[sounds]

51 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Op can you add this to the op?

I added a brief mention, but since you only referenced a tweet (something I don't consider a good source), I just said "@HelpfulTechWizard wants to have the tweets down-thread mentioned here, so yeah. Epic didn't get everything they wanted."

[Fasterthannothing]

1 hour ago, Skiiwee29 said:

This is only half the story btw... Epic is still banned from the Apple Store AND they must pay Apple back 30%, or about $3.6 million from the money they made before this ruling happened.

 

 

 

I'm sure that stings for epic but they really went to batt for the consumer in this instance and they beat a giant in the industry that has been known for years to lock down their platform

[Skiiwee29]

1 minute ago, SlidewaysZ said:

I'm sure that stings for epic but they really went to batt for the consumer in this instance and they beat a giant in the industry that has been known for years to lock down their platform

Honestly, long term it could hurt as mobile is a huge cash cow. Reading the quoted section of the legal injunction, it does seem there is always room for Apple and Epic to mend fences, assuming they can agree to something thats mutually.. and financially beneficial to both parties. 

[Fasterthannothing]

2 minutes ago, Skiiwee29 said:

Honestly, long term it could hurt as mobile is a huge cash cow. Reading the quoted section of the legal injunction, it does seem there is always room for Apple and Epic to mend fences, assuming they can agree to something thats mutually.. and financially beneficial to both parties. 

Sure they lost out on the Apple ecosystem however they still have Android. Also this can be standings for future court cases that could force Apple's hand and allow side loading which would essentially allow epic back on Apple without needing to bargin for a spot in the app store. 

[Skiiwee29]

Just now, SlidewaysZ said:

Sure they lost out on the Apple ecosystem however they still have Android. Also this can be standings for future court cases that could force Apple's hand and allow side loading which would essentially allow epic back on Apple without needing to bargin for a spot in the app store. 

Possible, but that would likely be several years from now before something like that would happen due to how slow the legal system moves with litigations like this. 

[WaggishOhio383]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

If the app is hosted on their app store then they should get a cut of the sales

I'd agree with this statement if it weren't for the fact that there's no other way to install apps on an iPhone. Apple could basically ask for whatever cut of the sales they want and the only other choice developers would have is to not make their app available on iPhones at all.

[Master Disaster]

2 hours ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

I have no doubts that this'll probably end on the table of the Supreme court

More than likely yeah it will but remember, that's a double edged sword and Apple will need to think carefully. If they take it to SCOTUS and lose it sets a precedence that will stand and be pretty much unchallengeable forever plus they might end up leaving with further sanctions and/or a pretty hefty fine for their troubles too.

 

A SCOTUS ruling is about as absolute as you can get and that goes for either outcome.

 

Honestly, if we don't hear about appeals then its an admission by proxy that Apple knew full well they are in the wrong.

[Drama Lama]

In my opinion this doesn’t solve the main problem: the only way to get Apps on the iPhone is via the App Store.

[Forbidden Wafer]

Damn, Apple really was after the whales.
 

Quote

According to the ruling, gaming apps account for approximately 70% of all App Store revenues. That 70% is generated by less than 10% of all App Store users, the court said. By contrast, more than 80% of all accounts generate virtually no revenue, as 80% of all apps on the App Store are free, according to the document.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/10/apple-vs-epic-70percent-of-app-store-revenue-from-customers-playing-games.html

 

[The_russian]

Here’s the ruling if anyone wants to read it, please add it to the sources:

 

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21060631/apple-epic-judgement.pdf

 

 

Interestingly it looks like Epic is the one planning to appeal, I haven’t seen anything about Apple’s plans.

[CTR640]

So what is it? It's not really clear to me as there are many other sites saying different things. Did Apple win or lose?

Apple can simply fuck off with their 30% bullshit. Not sure if this saying applies to other countries too but here in the Netherlands it's "getting rich while sleeping".

[lewdicrous]

4 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

So what is it? It's not really clear to me as there are many other sites saying different things. Did Apple win or lose?

Apple can simply fuck off with their 30% bullshit. Not sure if this saying applies to other countries too but here in the Netherlands it's "getting rich while sleeping".

The way I understood it is that Apple lost, but Epic didn't necessarily win either.