Next version of Windows event... Windows 11 -> Ended

[Tieox]

Just now, Forbidden Wafer said:

They're not blocking people using older than 8th gen. They will advise against updating, and that is it. Look at the hard floor requirements, that is what you need to have.

I hope so, the two machines I have waiting for their owner to collect are used literally for YouTube and MixCraft nothing more.  And I know the chap would like to have the latest version of Windows.   I'd hate to tell him they're both e-waste post 2025.

[Tieox]

I can see this pushing many owners of perfectly workable machines to swap over to Apple, while Win11 may be a excellent OS and MS justified in many means for their stance and requirements, end users who see computers as furniture that should only be replaced when literally broken, will see this as a stupid thing, and refuse to buy a Windows machine.

 

 

[lboolaka_33]

Just now, Tieox said:

I find it hard to understand why if 11 is just a updated Win10 we cannot run stuff like Core2Duo's on it without a problem? this limitation must be designed to push people out to buy new hardware period! and it's bullshit.

A lot of people will say that these people should just buy a new system, but I say that people should be given the choice to do what they want. With these requirements, I won't even be able to get my E6440 onto W11, meanwhile it is quite good at running W10 (though it doesn't handle anything other than general use well... a MQ-series chip would help with that).

That said, maybe W11 will actually have something that justifies the high system requirements that we don't yet know about. We'll see.

[Tieox]

1 minute ago, lboolaka_33 said:

A lot of people will say that these people should just buy a new system, but I say that people should be given the choice to do what they want. With these requirements, I won't even be able to get my E6440 onto W11, meanwhile it is quite good at running W10 (though it doesn't handle anything other than general use well... a MQ-series chip would help with that).

That said, maybe W11 will actually have something that justifies the high system requirements that we don't yet know about. We'll see.

I'm hoping within weeks of the launch people will find ways to bypass the bullshit lock ( my term for their limitation ) 

[Kilrah]

Why do people absolutely need to run the latest OS on a 15 year old machine? W10 will have support until 2025...

[Forbidden Wafer]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

Why do people absolutely need to run the latest OS on a 15 year old machine? W10 will have support until 2025...

Because Intel basically re-released the same processors over and over in the last 5 years, so it means you're really supporting 10y worth of hardware. =x

[Tieox]

3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Why do people absolutely need to run the latest OS on a 15 year old machine? W10 will have support until 2025...

I am hoping some of the supported list is more of a soft limit that can be bypassed to ensure support for older machines, if not the modding community will likely sort something out.  

 

And why not run Win11 on older machines? given the bloody market right now, do you fancy going to to buy a new CPU?

[Bombastinator]

21 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

IIRC anything older than the GTX 400 series on Nvidia, and HD7000 series on AMD, old cards but still useful for basic tasks, though PC's running GPU's that old might not have a UEFI bios or TPM anyway.

It might sound tinfoil hat but I wonder if Intel pushed Microsoft to make TPM a requirement so people will be replacing their older PC's, because Microsoft has to be getting Intel money to be saying the 11th gen CPU's are great.

Thats for Windows 10, but who knows if the Windows 11 setup is going to be the same, MS has been pushing for online accounts so I wouldn't be surprised if its forced for Win11 home, MS gets all kinds of telemetry especially if someone uses Outlook mail with their Microsoft account.

Intel is on a back foot for sure, and their msrp are perhaps too high if everything was actually selling for msrp.  There are intel chips that are being sold that are better than AMD cups that are being sold.  The matches aren’t what intel wants them to be but they do exist.  
 

If the 5900 was actually gettable and the 5950 was $750 instead of nearly a grand there would be a better argument for that, but AMD isn’t doing that so it’s different.

[OrdinaryPhil]

A TPM 2.0 hard floor could be reasonable IF MS is implementing some radically new form of security. Everyone knows that biometrics are a joke and just the vehicle for data mining, so they'll probably continue to push that really hard and pretend like TPM 2.0 is "required" for their new biometric login. Hope not - but people will absolutely buy this narrative if that's how MS tries to sell it.

Regarding the CPU generations... there is really no meaningful difference in terms of architecture from Intel's 9th gen all the way back to their 2nd gen. It's all 14nm litho with the same underlying design. 10th & 11th gen are only slightly difference, and there isn't going to be a REAL architectural change until 12th gen. So choosing 8th gen seems arbitrary to me. There is no reason why a 4-core, 4-thread CPU with an '8' in the name would opperate any differently than a 4-core, 4-thread CPU from with a 7' in the name... especially considering that there are no added instruction sets, no changes to the pipeline, no changes in BUS speed or bandwidth to PCI-E lanes or anything... (Should all be DMI 3.0 I think)
 

 

[LAwLz]

5 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Why do people absolutely need to run the latest OS on a 15 year old machine? W10 will have support until 2025...

Because they want the new features?

Also, support is being cut for a lot more recent machines than 15 years. 

 

Your defense of Microsoft in this thread is really weird.

[Forbidden Wafer]

Just now, LAwLz said:

Because they want the new features?

Also, support is being cut for a lot more recent machines than 15 years. 

It isn't. There is a hard floor and a soft floor. Hard floor won't get the update and soft floor will. They're basically supporting all stuff Win10 already supported.

[Tieox]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Because they want the new features?

Also, support is being cut for a lot more recent machines than 15 years. 

 

Your defense of Microsoft in this thread is really weird.

Just been on the phone, thankfully my buddy is happy for the Core2Duo to remain on Win10, but would like the newer core i5 3300 to get 11 if possible.  

 

[captain_to_fire]

Windows 11 is Windows 10 Service Pack 2

[Tieox]

1 minute ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

It isn't. There is a hard floor and a soft floor. Hard floor won't get the update and soft floor will. They're basically supporting all stuff Win10 already supported.

But they're removing legacy bios support?

[linkboy]

2 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Why do people absolutely need to run the latest OS on a 15 year old machine? W10 will have support until 2025...

 

If those requirements hold, I wouldn't be able to run the latest OS on a 4/5yr old machine (ThinkPad P50 with an i7 6700HQ).

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors

 

Even with Windows 10 being supported until 2025, there's going to be a lot of computers that should be fully capable of running it, but can't.

 

Hell, my computer (at least according to the CPU list) doesn't support Windows 11, yet runs the leaked build in a VM just fine (that may be due to the fact that it's not the final build, but it's something I find funny).

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, Tieox said:

I am hoping some of the supported list is more of a soft limit that can be bypassed to ensure support for older machines, if not the modding community will likely sort something out.  

 

And why not run Win11 on older machines? given the bloody market right now, do you fancy going to to buy a new CPU?

It’s not good, but it’s nothing near as bad as the gpu market

[gjsman]

I made a post in general about all the requirements that Windows 11 will need so we can have further discussion there.

 

 

[Forbidden Wafer]

1 minute ago, Tieox said:

But they're removing legacy bios support?

They list SecureBoot as a hard-floor requirement. AFAIK, SecureBoot requires UEFI, but that doesn't mean it can't fallback to BIOS emulation.

[Blademaster91]

5 minutes ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

It isn't. There is a hard floor and a soft floor. Hard floor won't get the update and soft floor will. They're basically supporting all stuff Win10 already supported.

The soft floor requirements are just weird though, not technically supporting anything older than Intel 8th gen, and AMD Ryzen 2000 series,  hopefully Microsoft changes it. But even with the hard floor it still makes a lot of hardware stuck with Windows 10.

[DeScruff]

5 minutes ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

They list SecureBoot as a hard-floor requirement. AFAIK, SecureBoot requires UEFI, but that doesn't mean it can't fallback to BIOS emulation.

Maybe I'm a lil outa touch, but weren't there notable issues with SecureBoot, to the point its actually kinda pointless, and more then anything just gets in the way of someone who wants to install a different OS on their system?

[starry]

dang nice more spyware to install on my computer

[LAwLz]

12 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

The soft floor requirements are just weird though, not technically supporting anything older than Intel 8th gen, and AMD Ryzen 2000 series,  hopefully Microsoft changes it. But even with the hard floor it still makes a lot of hardware stuck with Windows 10.

I also find the TPM 2.0 requirement weird.

I get dumbing some hardware because you want to get rid of some legacy stuff, but in the case of TPM 2.0 it is adding more dependencies even though it seems like there are no technical reasons for requiring it.

[Forbidden Wafer]

13 minutes ago, DeScruff said:

Maybe I'm a lil outa touch, but weren't there notable issues with SecureBoot, to the point its actually kinda pointless, and more then anything just gets in the way of someone who wants to install a different OS on their system?

Not really. It's bothersome but not that bad. You just need to install the cryptographic signature of the new OS you want to install. Of course you can only do that if you are an administrator (or owner) of the device.

[PocketNerd]

Oh boy, trying to explain UEFI, Secure Boot, and TPM is going to be *fun*!

Especially to an angry customer who demands I upgrade them to Windows 11 or thinks it's my fault that they can't

[Tieox]

6 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

Oh boy, trying to explain UEFI, Secure Boot, and TPM is going to be *fun*!

Especially to an angry customer who demands I upgrade them to Windows 11 or thinks it's my fault that they can't

And the peeps who bought a i5 Ivybridge that does everything they want on Win10 but get told NOPE no Win11, and all they see is a perfectly fine PC, then throw in the jargon and things to check.

 

My recommendation for those peeps? buy a M1 Mac Mini.