Next version of Windows event... Windows 11 -> Ended

[jagdtigger]

13 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

fuuuuuuuckkk

 

Do PCs even have tpm?

MY thoughts exactly, AFAIK on home PC's and laptops TPM is pretty much non-existent..... But my biggest concern is "System firmwareUEFI, Secure Boot capable", does that mean it just wont run on machines that have it disabled?

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

1 minute ago, porina said:

I might be wrong but I thought TPM was optional, especially if you don't care about it. I'm fairly sure on most mobos I've used over the years there's a header for it that is unpopulated. If that means they're not Win10 certified, I don't care. If I'm not mistaken the certification also requires things like Secure Boot to be set up and enabled. The only time I see that is on laptops.

 

I did look up how to check TPM status, run tpm.msc and it'll report any active version. The laptop I'm using right now has 2.0. Three desktops I checked report no TPM active. They're Rocket Lake, Coffee Lake and Skylake, so two of those are post 2016.

 

Is it even possible to certify a mobo for Win10? Feels more like a system requirement.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-tpm

 

It could be just for OEM PCs, but I assume motherboards would have had to follow the strict guidelinesl. I highly doubt your brand new Ryzen 9 5900X machine would fail to run Windows 11.

[WhitetailAni]

2 minutes ago, porina said:

I did look up how to check TPM status, run tpm.msc and it'll report any active version. The laptop I'm using right now has 2.0. Three desktops I checked report no TPM active. They're Rocket Lake, Coffee Lake and Skylake, so two of those are post 2016.

I tested on my Ryzen machine and same thing - no TPM active.

I've also got Secure Boot enabled, but for Other OS (because I run macOS sometimes).

 

Perhaps I'll poke about a bit under the AMD fTPM settings?

[WolframaticAlpha]

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

MY thoughts exactly, AFAIK on home PC's and laptops TPM is pretty much non-existent..... But my biggest concern is "System firmwareUEFI, Secure Boot capable", does that mean it just wont run on machines that have it disabled?

exunkly. Secure boot is a b*tch when you have to run linux. The CPU scheduler freaks out.

[Cyberspirit]

14 minutes ago, DeScruff said:

That... Can be a problem.
I dunno about you guys, but in my experience, once an OS is ~2 years old I'd start running into Wifi or Ethernet chips that I'd need to install drivers manually.
Is the OS going to account for that?

You can still make an offline account. Linus made a video on the leaked build and it had the option.

[porina]

3 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-tpm

 

It could be just for OEM PCs, but I assume motherboards would have had to follow the strict guidelinesl. I highly doubt your brand new Ryzen 9 5900X machine would fail to run Windows 11.

The 1st paragraph of that link says it is for new devices only. I read that as, a system or complete device that will include Windows pre-loaded. That's why I questioned if it applied to mobos. As a component, it is not complete, and up to the system builder to integrate it to meet all requirements. MS might have a separate requirement that says it has to support it, but it can't really go much further than that.

 

2 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

I tested on my Ryzen machine and same thing - no TPM active.

I've also got Secure Boot enabled, but for Other OS (because I run macOS sometimes).

 

Perhaps I'll poke about a bit under the AMD fTPM settings?

Reading up on TPMs in general. Looks like there can be several implementations: a physical stand alone device, emulated in firmware, or even built into CPU/chipsets. At this point I have no idea who supports what.

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, Cyberspirit said:

You can still make an offline account. Linus made a video on the leaked build and it had the option.

MS: Yeah we probably should fix that bug ASAP....

[Cyberspirit]

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

MS: Yeah we probably should fix that bug ASAP....

Doubt that they could ever truly remove it. They do try to hide it though.

[Murasaki]

I just checked my mobo's settings, under PCH-FW theres a TPM toggle between Discrete TPM / Firmware TPM, does that mean theres a TPM stored in the mobo's firmware? If I select Firmware TPM this pops up for Intel PTT. I won't change any settings for now cuz im scared lmao. Guess this is some TPM emulation?

 

 

[jagdtigger]

2 minutes ago, Cyberspirit said:

Doubt that they could ever truly remove it. They do try to hide it though.

They already made the xbox series s/x always online only so i think they are going to do it at some point.....

[Blademaster91]

18 minutes ago, Murasaki said:

 

I just read my mobo's manual, says "The TPM module is purchased separately". Oof... you can buy these?

Im really hoping it's going to be firmware based tpm if its required for more than just OEM pc's. My other concern is being able to install without needing sign into a Microsoft account, Microsoft has really been pushing that and I'd rather install my own drivers after an OS install without windows update trying to force updates that might break something.

[porina]

11 minutes ago, Murasaki said:

I just checked my mobo's settings, under PCH-FW theres a TPM toggle between Discrete TPM / Firmware TPM, does that mean theres a TPM stored in the mobo's firmware? If I select Firmware TPM this pops up for Intel PTT. I won't change any settings for now cuz im scared lmao. Guess this is some TPM emulation?

Discrete TPM = dedicated module

Firmware TPM = uses functionality included in the platform chips already

 

The latter option, assuming it is sufficient for Win11, might be more widely supported than we think. Just enthusiasts ever looked for it since we didn't need it before now.

 

 

Edit: I enabled it on my Rocket Lake system. It now reports as supporting TPM 2.0. Wonder how far back we can go? 

[Murasaki]

4 minutes ago, porina said:

Discrete TPM = dedicated module

Firmware TPM = uses functionality included in the platform chips already

 

The latter option, assuming it is sufficient for Win11, might be more widely supported than we think. Just enthusiasts ever looked for it since we didn't need it before now.

I guess this is what they meant on the livestream with 11 being "the most secure windows yet". Forcing people to deal with this TPM stuff

[NTDaws]

Im finally excited for the next version of Windows, windows 8 was a nuke, windows 10 we meh but it had a lot of bloatware. The design is great, everyone can complain but it doesn't give me mac os vibe or anything like that. I genuinely enjoy the new window snap. Android apps are a game changer. We will see a lot more people on surface in 2022. And Windows 10.1 sounds dumb cause it just gives me windows 8.1 vibes which they fucked up. Excuse my language. But overall in excited.

[WolframaticAlpha]

wondering whether the tpm stuff means no more windowsvms

[DeScruff]

12 minutes ago, Cyberspirit said:

You can still make an offline account. Linus made a video on the leaked build and it had the option.

He installed Pro (for Workstations) keep in mind.
What I quoted was about Home. Which I'm going to assume most people are going to have.

And as NotTheFirstDaniel noted in a reply "Windows 11 Home Build 21996 waited for you to connect to the internet. They must assume that you would either slipstream drivers, or buy Pro". That is a huge oversight in the long run if you ask me, cause again. In like 2 years your gonna have new Wifi chips that Win11 will not recognize outta the box.

Requiring slipstreaming drivers is a foolish idea. In the very far past I believe Windows did let you install drivers during setup via Floppy disk/CD/USB (The later of which became an issue with Windows7 since it lacked USB 3.0 support) But I don't think Ive seen that with the Win8, 8.1, or 10 installers?

[jagdtigger]

19 minutes ago, porina said:

The latter option, assuming it is sufficient for Win11, might be more widely supported than we think.

It depends on the CPU and mobo though, for example my gaming rig doesnt have it (4670k)...  And i think we all know how many ppl will go out and buy tpm modules. (Assuming the mobo has a header for it.)

[WhitetailAni]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

You can order a TPM chip that uses a USB header

I didn't see any for a USB header, but I did find a bunch that go on the TPM header. It's like a USB header but with a few more pins. Here's where it is on my B350-F Gaming:

Spoiler

Image is low res as it was pulled from the manual.

[Murasaki]

3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

You can order a TPM chip that uses a USB header on the motherboard. I looked on Amazon.

They are inexpensive, but I expect the price to jump like crazy, as demand for them will be huge. Most DIY mothebroard doesn't have a TPM chip.

What im actually hoping is for those modules to become more common once 11 is more widespread

[Blademaster91]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

You can order a TPM chip that uses a USB header on the motherboard. I looked on Amazon.

They are inexpensive, but I expect the price to jump like crazy, as demand for them will be huge. Most DIY mothebroard doesn't have a TPM chip.

The hardware TPM chip is needed to install Windows11? If so thats disappointing and theres going to be a lot of people confused why they cant install the upgrade. I'll probably hold off from getting Windows 11 but i do like the multi monitor improvement and android apps.

[Kilrah]

You don't need a hardware TPM, the firmware one is fine. On Intel it was introduced all the way back in 2013. It might not be enabled by default on many boards, but available.

[MultiGamerClub]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Start menu is now integrated with OneDrive, showing documents from one OneDrive account directly on it

From someone that hated using it to actually getting 1 terabyte of free space (family plan).. I like that.

[shermantanker]

I have a i7-5930K & ASUS X-99-A/USB 3.1 & my manual says there is a 20-pin TPM module header & they are like $10 on Ebay for the ASUS chip.

[Forbidden Wafer]

8 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

You don't need a hardware TPM, the firmware one is fine. On Intel it was introduced all the way back in 2013. It might not be enabled by default on many boards, but available.

All AM4 boards also have it (PSP setting). So anything since 2016 should be fine. Older FM2/AM3 boards might need the hardware thing.

[Morgan Everett]

Enabling the firmware TPM worked for me. I think some are being a touch alarmist...