New GA106-302 RTX 3060 Revision coming with Hardware Based Mining Limiter coming in May, Possibly coming to the rest of RTX 30 series

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

If nVidia was trying to protect it's datacenter market, today, they would block, both at the hardware level and at the driver level using more than 1 nvidia gpu in the same system

They aren't, this miner limiter has literally nothing to do with that business unit.

[Brooksie359]

On 4/18/2021 at 6:50 PM, Moonzy said:

I use it daily, wdym?

Who ever told you you can't use a PC that's mining??

I even game on it, and only stop mining if my game are affected (surprisingly not many games I play are affected)

 

Why not mine AND do door dash??

That's the thing about mining, it's not an active income

Because it's a waste of energy that why. I'm not gonna leave my lights on simply because someone will pay me to do so as its simply wasteful. And I highly doubt mining doesn't effect the use of the machine. If it didn't then it would effect the mining efficiency meaning you wouldn't be making the stipulated 7 dollars a day. 

 

On 4/18/2021 at 7:31 PM, tikker said:

Why is it dumb? Because it's volatile? That's nonsense. You pretty much never know whether something is a smart investment. If you consider something that maintains value over decades a smart investment, that's fine. Those investments, however, will also hardly make you any money because you can't have both. You want profit, you'll have to accept risk. You want stabililty, accept lesser profit.

 

Crypto is a very risky investment to make, but risk =/= dumb. Sure it may be dead in a couple of years (though I personally doubt it, given the snowball that has been forming lately), but anyone who does their due diligence when investing in crypto knows that. If you invest in crypto without realising its volatility and infancy then you are making a dumb investment. If you know and accept the risks, not so much. Everybody is a genius now that it's constantly rising, nobody knows what the smart investment to make is.

 

I don't know where crypto will end up and neither do you. I think it's like when the internet came out. It'll spark something. Whether it stays in its current form or not is irrelevant, we reap the fruits of our labour for as long as it lives.

Same. People spout "just get a job" around as if it's the simplest thing in the world. Why does it have to be compared to a job? If you gain enough to support your life good for you, but what is wrong with people just doing it for some extra change. By this logic everybody on this forum complaining about GPU prices should just get a better paying job if they want a GPU so much.

It's a dumb investment because its a literal gamble. At least with stocks while volatile they are based on the performance of a company and you can make educated guesses on how successful a company will be based on past performance and news on what future plans are for the company. Also with the stock market the general trend has always been up over the long term so long as you have a diversified stock portfolio. I never once said that risk was the reason why investing in cryptocurrency is dumb. I said it because cryptocurrency as a concept is dumb to begin with. Investing in AMD when it was 2 dollars a share was a risky decision but based on the knowledge I had I convinced alot of my family members to invest and they made a ton of money but that wasn't a gamble because it was actually based on a promising new line of cpus they were going to come out with. Was it risky? Yeah the new cpus could have been a total flop but I figured with the help of jim keller the odds were in my favor. With cryptocurrency it has legitimately no rhyme or reason for its value. It's simply volatile. 

 

On 4/18/2021 at 7:47 PM, Morgan Everett said:

The point is that's an almost completely passive way of making money, that doesn't impede me in any way, and that uses equipment that I've already bought anyway. Sure, the amount of money isn't high, but I'd rather the free £100 a month than the free £0 a month. 

I'd rather not have my rig running 24/7 wearing out the fans on my gpu and also wanting energy for a meager amount of cash. 

 

On 4/18/2021 at 7:59 PM, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Most people who mine I'd wager.

You can still use it. When I'm not using it, it's running my Minecraft server and mining. I turn off the mining when I want to game. 

Yeah, if you need money, taking a second job is a great idea. But you can do both. An extra... Like 2k over a year is a big deal for you if your making like 40k a year. 

I don't think its worth it. Waste of energy and harmful to the environment not to mention your gpu fans are going to go out alot sooner. 

[Bitter]

The solution isn't to cripple hardware, the solution is to just make enough of it. Nvidia et al need to invest some money into increasing production capacity. Yes, I realize that doesn't fix the problem NOW, but neither does crippling the cards since if there's money to be made a side step will be found.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

don't think its worth it. Waste of energy and harmful to the environment not to mention your gpu fans are going to go out alot sooner. 

Once again, you might find it meager, but using your person being hard on cash example, say someone gets layed off of a better job, has to take a low paying job, and they have this pc. Rather then selling their pride and joy, they mine 2k a year, bringing up their meager new salary by 5%. That's a rather large increase.

 

Anyways mining and hour used half the energy gaming for an hour, since you would run it power limited and undervolted to maximize profit, it's not as bad for the environment as most people think. And like 27% of the world is renewable, that's a good chance you are using all or mostly renewable.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

3 minutes ago, Bitter said:

The solution isn't to cripple hardware, the solution is to just make enough of it. Nvidia et al need to invest some money into increasing production capacity. Yes, I realize that doesn't fix the problem NOW, but neither does crippling the cards since if there's money to be made a side step will be found.

Yeah, but they're a company. They're making more money that last gen, as theyres more cards made anyways, and demand is through the roof. And this is a lot of good pr from the mobs of gamers who think that this is all minings fault

[Bitter]

Just now, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Yeah, but they're a company. They're making more money that last gen, as theyres more cards made anyways, and demand is through the roof. And this is a lot of good pr from the mobs of gamers who think that this is all minings fault

Sadly yeah. As much as I like making money from my mining rig I'd love a price crash to dump hardware on the market at low prices so I can get some more cards for my own use and for the next mining craze and to keep mining the dip so when it goes up I've got more still.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

5 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Sadly yeah. As much as I like making money from my mining rig I'd love a price crash to dump hardware on the market at low prices so I can get some more cards for my own use and for the next mining craze and to keep mining the dip so when it goes up I've got more still.

Yeah.

I'm saving for a new gpu now, my local shop has been getting one or two Asus 3070 and 3080 cards every couple of weeks, the 3070s runs around 700$ (Due to terrifs they cost more for them), with the 3080 like $900 (usd).

I'm kinda thempted to get another 3070 once I've mined enough for one, maybe another after that. (I dont want to setup a whole mining rig with like 30 gpus)

It's not like it's a unsafe investment, tthe cards will still be worth what I can get them for if crypto crashes (or maybe I keep them untill the next book.

[Morgan Everett]

39 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

I'd rather not have my rig running 24/7 wearing out the fans on my gpu and also wanting energy for a meager amount of cash. 

Unless you're running your fans very fast, it's unlikely to be a problem. If you're wealthy enough to find the level of return meagre, well, bully for you, I guess. 

[Bitter]

54 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Yeah.

I'm saving for a new gpu now, my local shop has been getting one or two Asus 3070 and 3080 cards every couple of weeks, the 3070s runs around 700$ (Due to terrifs they cost more for them), with the 3080 like $900 (usd).

I'm kinda thempted to get another 3070 once I've mined enough for one, maybe another after that. (I dont want to setup a whole mining rig with like 30 gpus)

It's not like it's a unsafe investment, tthe cards will still be worth what I can get them for if crypto crashes (or maybe I keep them untill the next book.

So like two years ago I stopped spending my Amazon Chase rewards with the intention of getting a nice new flagship or near flagship card in a couple years that would be good for a few years and decent for a few more. I had wanted a 30 series card when they were coming out and had about $400 saved up. Haven't been able to buy one yet so I'll just keep accumulating rewards points until I can buy one on Amazon I guess. Might be able to spring for something really top of the line at that point.

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, Nacht said:

They should consider limiting 1 gpu per system while suplies are problematic, but only when they are problematic, even better tho fix the supply issues that been playing for years and cut the cost of gpu's already back to original levels before first big increase of gpu's, prices wheren't normal to begin with and they just kept raising them more and more, and now they gonne up due demand i smell huge manipulation scheme, its happening with other stuff to, its time to disallow this kind of manipulation and start fining those that abuse it.

Market manipulation is difficult in an industry with 3 or more players.  There are several industries where assumptions were made about what would happen during covid that turned out to be wrong.  One of them is lumber.  Lumber prices have done very similar things as GPU prices but there’s a shorter chain of manufacturing and apparently stock is building up at timber mills to a point that there is likely to be a sudden price drop.  Is stock building up anywhere in the GPU assembly chain?

[Bitter]

Well I guess here's to hoping that Intel has a competitive product and in large enough quantity.

[Bombastinator]

17 minutes ago, Nacht said:

Not difficult at all, as you can see we are now middle of a chip shortage.

Recursive proof error.  Doesn’t make you wrong but it also does zero making you right.

[Bombastinator]

17 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Well I guess here's to hoping that Intel has a competitive product and in large enough quantity.

It is a possibly perfect time for a competitor to enter the marketplace if they can provide a device competitive with the stuff for which there is a shortage.

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, Nacht said:

Sure dude you believe what you wanna believe.

Do I believe basic that logical fallacies are basic logical fallacies?  Yup.  

Edited April 19, 2021 by Bombastinator

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, Morgan Everett said:

Unless you're running your fans very fast, it's unlikely to be a problem. If you're wealthy enough to find the level of return meagre, well, bully for you, I guess. 

For the waste it is yeah the return is meager. Also yeah its going to matter with the fans running 24/7 no matter if it isn't super high rpm. You for sure are going to have the fans die alot earlier than if you weren't running it 24/7. 

[Brooksie359]

2 hours ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Once again, you might find it meager, but using your person being hard on cash example, say someone gets layed off of a better job, has to take a low paying job, and they have this pc. Rather then selling their pride and joy, they mine 2k a year, bringing up their meager new salary by 5%. That's a rather large increase.

 

Anyways mining and hour used half the energy gaming for an hour, since you would run it power limited and undervolted to maximize profit, it's not as bad for the environment as most people think. And like 27% of the world is renewable, that's a good chance you are using all or mostly renewable.

Again you can easily do a side job and make way more money than that. Also that half energy used number is kinda bs tbh. Yeah if you are running AAA games maybe but not everyone is playing those types of games all the time. I mean look at the highest rated games on steam and alot of them are pretty light weight and don't really tax your system all that much. Also you are making a huge assumption that everyone who mines is going to undervolt and power limit it because not everyone knows what they are doing to be honest. 

[Bitter]

10 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Again you can easily do a side job and make way more money than that. Also that half energy used number is kinda bs tbh. Yeah if you are running AAA games maybe but not everyone is playing those types of games all the time. I mean look at the highest rated games on steam and alot of them are pretty light weight and don't really tax your system all that much. Also you are making a huge assumption that everyone who mines is going to undervolt and power limit it because not everyone knows what they are doing to be honest. 

You're assuming everyone has the time for a second job, what about family, kids, commuting time, etc. Mining rig is making money while I'm driving to work, walking the dogs, making dinner, sleeping, pooping, showering, etc. Can't work a second job while I'm doing those things.

[arnavvr]

On 4/17/2021 at 7:20 AM, jagdtigger said:

There are only stupid things here, a:

People who are living off of doing literally nothing (miners).

b:

Ppl who defend their parasitic lifestyle.

 

The sooner crypto gets shot down is the better.

What is this ridiculous argument? I make ~ $400-500 a month mining, certainly not enough to live off of. It's just supplemental income to my main job.

 

Do you think dividends on stocks should be made illegal as well?

[Bombastinator]

33 minutes ago, arnavvr said:

What is this ridiculous argument? I make ~ $400-500 a month mining, certainly not enough to live off of. It's just supplemental income to my main job.

 

Do you think dividends on stocks should be made illegal as well?

It’s not an argument it’s a complaint.  One you seem to have offered fuel for rather than the reverse.

[Kisai]

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

And then all you'd get is a bunch of PLX/Switch chip risers on the market that turn any PCIe lane input in to x16, of course actual bandwidth wouldn't increase, and then any such check would be moot. And no you can't just say apply limiter if that is detected because every high end motherboard that has dual x16 slots that support both in x8/x8 mode have a PCIe switch chip to make it possible (mainstream desktop of course).

 

This will never work.

Keep saying "this will never work" while ignoring the nvlink part of the solution.

 

The point is, again, nvidia has incentives to protect it's data center solutions to make it so GEFORCE cards can't be used in high density deployments over their more expensive solutions. Removing the nvlink from the GEFORCE card should have been a sign that no additional GPU's will be supported to run together. You can't initialize nvlink on a card that doesn't have it, and thus it could be configured in the gpu die, that it doesn't power on when it's not in the cpu-connected slot at x16. There are multiple ways they can check for this, and VM's and PLX chips are not going to solve it.

 

But as I've stated again and again, why go through the effort for such a short term countermeasure, unless they were trying to protect another product long term. Today we see pallets of Geforce cards used by miners, but how many pallets of gpu's directly went into cloud-gpu deployments? We're all being incredibly naive if you think streaming sites are all running only software-only solutions.

 

Likewise, AMD hasn't bothered to do any of this, probably because they don't see the point, because their cards are less popular primarily because they're unusable for CUDA.

 

[Moonzy]

6 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

it's a waste of energy that why. I'm not gonna leave my lights on simply because someone will pay me to do so as its simply wasteful

Ok, you do you, as waste or not is truly subjective

Personally I feel like traveling to office is more wasteful because you're literally moving tons of mass around, and if you do the math its actually using a lot of energy

 

6 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

And I highly doubt mining doesn't effect the use of the machine. If it didn't then it would effect the mining efficiency meaning you wouldn't be making the stipulated 7 dollars a day. 

Yes, you are absolutely right that it drops the hashrate when I'm using the PC

My PC is to serve me first, mining second

Even if it doesn't make $7 a day, or ROI in one year instead of 6 months, it's still better than not seeing a single cent that I spent on it

 

"oh I'm not making as much as I could, let's not make any money at all then"

It's such a weird mindset...?

 

Edit: just to clarify, if you don't like mining, you don't have to mine, it's your hardware so you do you, it's not stupid to do (or not do) whatever you want with your hardware

World is a complicated place with all sorts of people

[Moonzy]

2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

For the waste it is yeah the return is meager. Also yeah its going to matter with the fans running 24/7 no matter if it isn't super high rpm. You for sure are going to have the fans die alot earlier than if you weren't running it 24/7. 

If I'm making $100 a month from mining, I think I can buy all the noctua I want to strap on my gpus when their fan break down? e.e

[Sorenson]

Honestly, this is good for the vast majority of graphics card consumers. In an ideal world, you would be able to do whatever you wanted with your GPU. We don’t live in that world and this might make buying one in 2021 reasonably possible. 

[Blademaster91]

On 4/17/2021 at 11:28 AM, leadeater said:

I don't think they actually do, not really. They are more being forced to by public pressure which generally is a good thing. The reason why I say Nvidia doesn't want to do this is because, and likely on purpose, it's very hard to distinguish product sales classified by purpose for Geforce cards. Why this matters is due to financial reporting and investment along with company valuations.

I think Nvidia really does want to do this considering they're investing into marketing and limiting their cards.

And I think there is more public pressure to either make more cards, or stop selling directly to miners because most people actually trying to buy a GPU know cards are going to miners by the thousands.

On 4/17/2021 at 11:28 AM, leadeater said:

The truth is nobody here actually knows how much impact mining sales is having on supply, because it's impossible to know. People see picture of large warehouses of GPUs and think that it's a lot, and while it may be a few thousand cards it's literally a tiny fraction of GPU production for a singular month.

Well when cards go out stock instantly I can guess miners are using bots to buy large quantities of cards, when Nvidia added the mining limiter to the 3060 , at least cards were in stock for a few seconds instead of not being in stock at all.

On 4/17/2021 at 11:28 AM, leadeater said:

I could easily argue AMD has a lot of blame here since they do not have integrated GPUs in their desktop CPUs and large vendors like HP have started to push AMD products a lot more and now require a dedicated GPU to be bundled with the computer. I can for sure tell you HP is buying more GPUs than all the miners are, and that's just HP.

 

Now companies like HP were already buying GPUs so that's not new but what is new is they are selling over 60% more systems per year than they were before and now a larger portion of their desktop computer sales now include a dedicated GPU that was not that case before. General business computers with Intel CPUs are not sold with dedicated GPUs, this is not the case with AMD ones that don't use the APU product line which is a lot of them.

OEM's using AMD cpu's is likely only a fraction of the market I still see way more OEM desktops with Intel cpu's than AMD, maybe gaming prebuilts though.

On 4/17/2021 at 11:28 AM, leadeater said:

A lot of people are very confident mining sales have a significant impact on availability based on nothing but gut feel and emotion, where as using what available data we do have there are more likely causes. Mining isn't a zero impact but I think people accredit it much more than it actually is.

I've seen mentions of Nvidia making more GPU's than previous series yet they aren't available anywhere and again they're all out stock instantly, so I think mining could be a significant impact only made worse by chip shortages.

On 4/17/2021 at 11:28 AM, leadeater said:

So while product segmentation for emotional purposes is fundamentally something we really should not be supporting I don't specifically object to feature reduced cards being added to product lines to address point in time issues so long as existing products are not removed. Then at least if miners want to pay inflated prices they can go right ahead and gamers will have nothing to object to, unless all the stock runs out anyway for the other existing causes and scalping remains.

I dislike companies limiting what you can do with a product, and it doesn't really matter if they keep the existing product because Nvidia wants to also limit cards through drivers, they either need to make more cards, stop the mining CMP crap and start making RTX 20 series cards again, or don't sell cards directly to miners.

On 4/17/2021 at 11:41 AM, leadeater said:

Well the chip shortages are that bad, basically all the big silicon companies have recently stated this will last up until 2023. So yea, hate to be the barer of bad news but projections are not looking good.

Yes I know its bad, really bad when cards going back to the 900 series double in value and I can't even buy a freaking GT710, I'm saying it just seems weird they'd want to replace the 30 series chips with the mining limiter to the entire lineup, which could mean supply won't be getting any better.

[jagdtigger]

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

It’s not an argument it’s a complaint.  One you seem to have offered fuel for rather than the reverse.

The only thing he achieved with his comment is to end up on my ignore list.....