New GA106-302 RTX 3060 Revision coming with Hardware Based Mining Limiter coming in May, Possibly coming to the rest of RTX 30 series

[Brooksie359]

13 hours ago, tishous said:

And you know that how? These companies have people a lot smarter than either of us, and the best thing to do with crypto is to keep it for the future. That extra however much may be nice now, but an extra 4x that in a few years sounds a whole lot better.

I never said they don't. I said without that extra money they would get from swapping their Bitcoin into fiat their business wouldn't suddenly crumble. Even Tesla, the least profitable company in the list that other guy said, had a profit of more than $700mil in 2020, so they have plenty of "headroom" I guess you could say to keep their crypto for the future. 

You actually can at WholeFoods. https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/who-accepts-bitcoin/

Are you kidding me? Tesla hasn't been very profitable until recently. And yeah you bet companies aren't sitting on that money. Oh it could be 4x in value 1 year from now or it could be .5x in value in 1 year from now. Do you know what most sane companies do? They reinvest the money into the company through R&D and purchasing of new capital like new facilities and upgrading machinery. No smart business will sit on that cryptocurrency. 

[Brooksie359]

13 hours ago, Moonzy said:

Please... Do your research before saying things like this

One gpu or 10, the profit margin is approximately the same for now

Earning $7 a day in a single GPU may not sound like a lot, but if your PC is $1000, you'll recoup the cost in half a year, that alone is enough incentive to make people mine

 

-shrug- it's okay to use electricity to do whatever, but if it's earning money then suddenly it's bad

People believe we should be spending thousands of dollars on our hobby and not see a single cent of it, and making money without doing anything is wrong, while

1) not against automated factories

2) not understanding what mining is to begin with, just a very basic level understanding and then jump into the hate train. I urge you to do further research

 

I mean... Tesla did say they'd buy $1.5bn of bitcoin or something, so they're definitely not selling it(?) Unless they changed their mind

I doubt it. Its a dumb investment. Better off spending it on investing it into their own company rather than crypto. 

[Bombastinator]

35 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

They would probably go to an electronics recycler. Just get dozens of systems for bassically nothing, though it might become a nightmare to manage all of them.

 

Edit: or, VM pssthrough to a diffrent VM for each gpu might work... Make the driver think there's only one gpu (as a VM can't access outside info)

The VRM thing could be a different kind of nightmare.  They have to run dozens of vms then.

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

Tesla hasn't been very profitable until recently. And yeah you bet companies aren't sitting on that money.

They never were, and still isnt profitable. What little profit they had is from the sold emission quotas AFAIK.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

I doubt it. Its a dumb investment. Better off spending it on investing it into their own company rather than crypto. 

No, it’s always bad, because it comes largely from fossil fuels most places.  it’s a question of having a choice or not. Incandescent bulbs cost pennies, a LED bulb costs multiple times as much but uses less power.  Incandescent bulbs have become uncommon.

[Brooksie359]

14 hours ago, Moonzy said:

Please... Do your research before saying things like this

One gpu or 10, the profit margin is approximately the same for now

Earning $7 a day in a single GPU may not sound like a lot, but if your PC is $1000, you'll recoup the cost in half a year, that alone is enough incentive to make people mine

 

-shrug- it's okay to use electricity to do whatever, but if it's earning money then suddenly it's bad

People believe we should be spending thousands of dollars on our hobby and not see a single cent of it, and making money without doing anything is wrong, while

1) not against automated factories

2) not understanding what mining is to begin with, just a very basic level understanding and then jump into the hate train. I urge you to do further research

 

I mean... Tesla did say they'd buy $1.5bn of bitcoin or something, so they're definitely not selling it(?) Unless they changed their mind

Also who the hell runs their build for 6 months straight just to pay for it? Why build the pc if you can't even use it? Sure you get 7 dollars a day or something but that isn't even equivalent to working 1 hour at a part time job. At that point just do door dash or some other side job of you really need money that bad. 

[Moonzy]

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

Better off spending it on investing it into their own company rather than crypto.

I don't think we're qualified to give Tesla financial advice, but sure.

 

iirc they announce they bought in at ~$30k

Right now it's $54k, so it's near doubled by now or so

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

They never were, and still isnt profitable. What little profit they had is from the sold emission quotas AFAIK.

Potato potato.  They’re still becoming profitable much faster than expected.  This is the thing about high level businesses like automobile production.  Requires immense amounts of infrastructure. They take a long time to become profitable.

[Moonzy]

3 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Why build the pc if you can't even use it?

I use it daily, wdym?

Who ever told you you can't use a PC that's mining??

I even game on it, and only stop mining if my game are affected (surprisingly not many games I play are affected)

 

3 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Sure you get 7 dollars a day or something but that isn't even equivalent to working 1 hour at a part time job. At that point just do door dash or some other side job of you really need money that bad.

Why not mine AND do door dash??

That's the thing about mining, it's not an active income

[Bitter]

15 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Also who the hell runs their build for 6 months straight just to pay for it? Why build the pc if you can't even use it? Sure you get 7 dollars a day or something but that isn't even equivalent to working 1 hour at a part time job. At that point just do door dash or some other side job of you really need money that bad. 

I work full time and have a mining rig. It makes about $30 a week and costs me about $20 a month in electricity. It's a passive source of income for me. I had the parts around sitting unused. The extra income is nice to have even if I'm not cashing it out, just knowing I've got a few hundred spare dollars gives me a lot of peace of mind and knowing that after a year it'll be more like a thousand extra dollars is really nice and makes me feel better. I've even been able to buy some extra crypto on some dips recently and 'make money' there too. I'm not evil, I'm not sucking up all the hardware, and my electricity is generated primarily through nuclear and a little bit of wind so I'm not generating a lot of carbon.

[tikker]

28 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Its a dumb investment.

Why is it dumb? Because it's volatile? That's nonsense. You pretty much never know whether something is a smart investment. If you consider something that maintains value over decades a smart investment, that's fine. Those investments, however, will also hardly make you any money because you can't have both. You want profit, you'll have to accept risk. You want stabililty, accept lesser profit.

 

Crypto is a very risky investment to make, but risk =/= dumb. Sure it may be dead in a couple of years (though I personally doubt it, given the snowball that has been forming lately), but anyone who does their due diligence when investing in crypto knows that. If you invest in crypto without realising its volatility and infancy then you are making a dumb investment. If you know and accept the risks, not so much. Everybody is a genius now that it's constantly rising, nobody knows what the smart investment to make is.

 

I don't know where crypto will end up and neither do you. I think it's like when the internet came out. It'll spark something. Whether it stays in its current form or not is irrelevant, we reap the fruits of our labour for as long as it lives.

17 minutes ago, Bitter said:

I work full time and have a mining rig. It makes about $30 a week and costs me about $20 a month in electricity. It's a passive source of income for me. I had the parts around sitting unused. The extra income is nice to have even if I'm not cashing it out, just knowing I've got a few hundred spare dollars gives me a lot of peace of mind and knowing that after a year it'll be more like a thousand extra dollars is really nice and makes me feel better.

Same. People spout "just get a job" around as if it's the simplest thing in the world. Why does it have to be compared to a job? If you gain enough to support your life good for you, but what is wrong with people just doing it for some extra change. By this logic everybody on this forum complaining about GPU prices should just get a better paying job if they want a GPU so much.

[Morgan Everett]

59 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Also who the hell runs their build for 6 months straight just to pay for it? Why build the pc if you can't even use it? Sure you get 7 dollars a day or something but that isn't even equivalent to working 1 hour at a part time job. At that point just do door dash or some other side job of you really need money that bad. 

The point is that's an almost completely passive way of making money, that doesn't impede me in any way, and that uses equipment that I've already bought anyway. Sure, the amount of money isn't high, but I'd rather the free £100 a month than the free £0 a month. 

[Lord Szechenyi]

On 4/17/2021 at 3:24 PM, RejZoR said:

World has gone absolutely insane.

actually, nope

[jagdtigger]

12 minutes ago, tikker said:

Same. People spout "just get a job" around as if it's the simplest thing in the world.

OFC its not easy and so far i never seen anyone saying it is. Those who say that have issues with miners who buy dozens or even palettes of gpu's just so they can get money for doing nothing. Yeah the small time miner will suffer from this but to the industry as a whole its more beneficial than the collateral damage caused by it.

 

21 minutes ago, tikker said:

By this logic everybody on this forum complaining about GPU prices should just get a better paying job if they want a GPU so much.

So by your logic selling a card with obscene amount of markup is totally acceptable and everyone should shut their mouth?  All while praying that our current setup wont die during this insanity?

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Also who the hell runs their build for 6 months straight just to pay for it?

Most people who mine I'd wager.

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Why build the pc if you can't even use it

You can still use it. When I'm not using it, it's running my Minecraft server and mining. I turn off the mining when I want to game. 

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Sure you get 7 dollars a day or something but that isn't even equivalent to working 1 hour at a part time job. At that point just do door dash or some other side job of you really need money that bad. 

Yeah, if you need money, taking a second job is a great idea. But you can do both. An extra... Like 2k over a year is a big deal for you if your making like 40k a year. 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

4 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Those who say that have issues with miners who buy dozens or even palettes of gpu's just so they can get money for doing nothing.

I'd have problems with getting palates, but only the ones who bought palates weeks before launch and they never had a chance for the general public to buy. But if you buy a card, you can use it how you damn please.

[tikker]

5 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

So by your logic selling a card with obscene amount of markup is totally acceptable and everyone should shut their mouth?  All while praying that our current setup wont die during this insanity?

That's twisting my words. I don't condone scalping, never said that. I was saying that if you follow the "for X$ a day just get a job if you really want the money" line of reasoning, then yes, you should apply that to yourself and "just get a[nother]/better paying job if you want that expensive GPU so badly".

[jagdtigger]

7 minutes ago, tikker said:

That's twisting my words. I don't condone scalping, never said that. I was saying that if you follow the "for X$ a day just get a job if you really want the money" line of reasoning, then yes, you should apply that to yourself and "just get a[nother]/better paying job if you want that expensive GPU so badly".

Just so you know i actually did back in school. Wanted a new PC my parents said "then get a job and work for it", so i did. Even now im still attending college besides work, although for a different reason. And actually its not that hard to get some extra by doing simple things. For example you could get some pretty penny from just basic maintenance stuff, reinstalling operating systems, cleaning out and repasting machines, or you could start a youtube channel for your hobby, etc.......

[tikker]

5 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Just so you know i actually did back in school. Wanted a new PC my parents said "then get a job and work for it", so i did. Even now im still attending college besides work, although for a different reason. And actually its not that hard to get some extra by doing simple things. For example you could get some pretty penny from just basic maintenance stuff, reinstalling operating systems, cleaning out and repasting machines, or you could start a youtube channel for your hobby, etc.......

I'm completely cool with doing anything on the list you mention there. I had jobs on the side in university as well. I just think mining is a completely valid item on that list as well. One person mows their neighbour's lawn for a few bucks, another person mines for a few bucks and does other things in the mean time. To each their own.

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, tikker said:

I'm completely cool with doing anything on the list you mention there. I had jobs on the side in university as well. I just think mining is a completely valid item on that list as well. One person mows their neighbour's lawn for a few bucks, another person mines for a few bucks and does other things in the mean time. To each their own.

Yeah but the main target of this limiter is not that group, yeah sucks that they are getting the short end of stick too but something needs to be done. Whats going on right now is in no shape or form normal. Yes they have a right to buy and use HW as they see fit, but when its starting to eat away on other ppl's similar rights thats the border for me, at that point intervention is needed....

[tikker]

6 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Yeah but the main target of this limiter is not that group, yeah sucks that they are getting the short end of stick too but something needs to be done. Whats going on right now is in no shape or form normal. Yes they have a right to buy and use HW as they see fit, but when its starting to eat away on other ppl's similar rights thats the border for me, at that point intervention is needed....

In that regard I'm with what other people already have mentioned that this is little more than a PR stunt. It makes it look like they care about gamers and promotes their CMP lineup. My problem is that this limiter doesn't really solve anything. Half the hashrate? Miners will just buy double the amount of cards as profitabillity has not gone negative. They can't kill mining performance enough without killing other areas.

[Bombastinator]

40 minutes ago, Lord Szechenyi said:

actually, nope

Well there was an unstated implication that it must have at one time been sane. I’m not sure this is true.

[jagdtigger]

10 minutes ago, tikker said:

In that regard I'm with what other people already have mentioned that this is little more than a PR stunt. It makes it look like they care about gamers and promotes their CMP lineup. My problem is that this limiter doesn't really solve anything. Half the hashrate? Miners will just buy double the amount of cards as profitabillity has not gone negative. They can't kill mining performance enough without killing other areas.

No doubt about that, the only real solution would be if their algorithm would shut down the card as soon as mining is detected. preferable with a ROM based VBIOS chip on the die....

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

They would probably go to an electronics recycler. Just get dozens of systems for bassically nothing, though it might become a nightmare to manage all of them.

 

Edit: or, VM pssthrough to a diffrent VM for each gpu might work... Make the driver think there's only one gpu (as a VM can't access outside info)

As I said.

1. Do not initialize the card's CUDA if it only sees a 1X mode, it would need to be electrically connected at 16x with all lanes connected to the CPU

2. If it's not connected at x16, look for the nvlink connector presence, and if it can't talk to another card in x16 mode, shutdown and stay in a boot-loop (unable to be initialized)

 

A VM doesn't solve this. Gaming systems will always have 1 x16 slot connected to the CPU, while cheaper systems will either not have the the x16 slot, or have the lanes dedicated to the m2 slots.

 

If nvidia is producing hardware intended for multi-gpu solutions, they clearly would want to prevent people from putting multiple geforce cards in the same desktop system, which is why we've seen the nvlink connector disappear from all but the 3090. Heck, I'm pretty sure the 3090 wasn't supposed to be a 30xx card, but rather an elimination of the Titan brand, due to confusion about what it market it was intended for.

 

So if you have a HEDT Xeon, there will be 48 lanes available, so 3 GPU's can operate at x16. Threadripper has 128 lanes, which allows for a full 8 slots, the maximum possible a motherboard might actually have, which means they would all have to be 1-slot wide.

 

If nVidia was trying to protect it's datacenter market, today, they would block, both at the hardware level and at the driver level using more than 1 nvidia gpu in the same system. That would force miners to just buy a lot of cheap junky cpu's and ITX chasis/boards to expand their mining operation, while burning significantly more energy. Or, use these specific mining GPU's to save energy costs by having 16, 48 or 128 gpu's connected to one motherboard with an expensive low-energy cpu with that many lanes.

 

Honestly, it's a lose-lose situation in most cases because if you force miners to buy more cpu's, then that puts pressure on the cpu market, and while Intel and AMD would love you to buy their garbage low-end cpu's for this purpose, it would waste a lot of energy that didn't need to be wasted just to make mining less efficient for miners.

 

It's already difficult for Dell and HP to procure enough parts, having miners buy pallets of cpu's and motherboards causing shortages there would just exacerbate the problem we have now.

 

The only way mining stops being attractive is by state governments making it illegal to operate.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/environmentalists-shake-finger-at-finger-lakes-bitcoin-mining

Quote

Bitcoin mining is an incredibly resource-intensive process. So what better place to do it than an abandoned power plant? Well, as New York Focus reported this week, Finger Lakes environmentalists think the answer is “pretty much anywhere else.”

The conflict revolves around a power plant on New York's Seneca Lake called Greenidge. The company’s website says the plant was opened in 1937, shuttered in 2009, and purchased by new owners in 2014. Those owners started mining Bitcoin in  the facility in 2019.

New York Focus reported that Greenidge plans “to quadruple the power used to process Bitcoin transactions by late next year” as the cryptocurrency’s value soars. Environmentalists fear those plans would lead to dangerously high CO2 emissions.

Like the most direct way to screw over this kind of mining is to implement carbon taxes, which of course, punishes everyone.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

Do not initialize the card's CUDA if it only sees a 1X mode, it would need to be electrically connected at 16x with all lanes connected to the CPU

And then all you'd get is a bunch of PLX/Switch chip risers on the market that turn any PCIe lane input in to x16, of course actual bandwidth wouldn't increase, and then any such check would be moot. And no you can't just say apply limiter if that is detected because every high end motherboard that has dual x16 slots that support both in x8/x8 mode have a PCIe switch chip to make it possible (mainstream desktop of course).

 

This will never work.