New GA106-302 RTX 3060 Revision coming with Hardware Based Mining Limiter coming in May, Possibly coming to the rest of RTX 30 series

[Moonzy]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Cryptocurrency algorithm difficulty is dynamic and is based on how quickly a solution is found, if it is above the threshold (too fast) the difficulty is increased and if it is below (too slow) the difficulty is reduced.

Yes

 

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

as the difficulty increases the value of the cryptocurrency increases, and as it decreases the value also decreases, as well as other factors.

I'm inclined to say no, but there might be correlation

 

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

So if the cryptocurrency network performance is halved due to the introduction of a mining performance limiter then the, very roughly speaking, algorithm difficulty will half so the solution rated will double i.e. profitability remains unchanged.

If everyone gets nerfed at the same time then yes, everything remains unchanged

 

But old unlimited GPU won't be affected so new GPU won't be as profitable

[jagdtigger]

3 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

Local IT shop =/= giant megacorp such as NewEgg and Best Buy

There are plenty of people who have managed to get a card. Just for the fun of it, I got a 3070 FE and 3060 Ti FE in my Best Buy cart. It's not hard if you actually work for it, rather than just mindlessly screaming "mining bad, cryptocurrency needs to die".

When i said IT shop i didnt mixed it up with your average pc-shop. They are literally an IT company (not a small fry by any means) that happens to run a shop as well. And get the same prices as on amazon after adding shipping.......  (If they were unreasonable more expensive than any of the other options i have here i wouldnt shop there, but they are not that much more expensive and more reliable than any other shop i know locally.)

Edited April 17, 2021 by jagdtigger

[Random_Person1234]

Another huge leak:

According to videocardz, all RTX 30 series card will feature a revision with a hardware limiter for mining.

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidias-whole-geforce-rtx-30-lineup-to-receive-new-gpu-revisions-with-cryptomining-limiter

[leadeater]

59 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

But old unlimited GPU won't be affected so new GPU won't be as profitable

True, I was just leaving that out on purpose. More just an exercise to determine the validity and effect of a mining rate limiter and if it would actually do as advertised. I don't actually think it will.

 

Edit: Plus if as I suspect the cards remain profitable a reduction in performance will actually just cause people to by more of them to boost income meaning it's hurting supply not helping. But hey just speculating.

 

59 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

I'm inclined to say no, but there might be correlation

I thought there was but when it comes to the huge value spikes that's more related to buying demand of the coins and supply of them. The supply of them is what's mostly affected by the difficulty so to speak so it shouldn't be a zero relationship to overall network rate and difficulty. However that said cryptocoin pricing is well, bloody hard to trend and analyze which is why I had to really dumb it way the hell now.

[tikker]

3 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

But old unlimited GPU won't be affected so new GPU won't be as profitable

I wonder if there is something stopping them from nerfing it further. They've demonstrated they can limit the hashrate, so if they'd truly want to get rid of miners why not just chop its head off completely and limit it to like 5 MH/s. Could it be some limit that would start affecting other workloads as well or do they just sectrely-but-not-so-secretly still like the extra $$$ from selling them.

[WhitetailAni]

Just now, tikker said:

so if they'd truly want to get rid of miners why not just chop its head off completely and limit it to like 5 MH/s.

69 H/s, just for the memes?

Just now, tikker said:

I wonder if there is something stopping them from nerfing it further.

I'm of the opinion that it's just a PR stunt, and they're doing it to make it seem that they "care" about gamers, when they really don't.

1 minute ago, tikker said:

do they just sectrely-but-not-so-secretly still like the extra $$$ from selling them.

MONIES!!!

[IkeaGnome]

5 minutes ago, Random_Person1234 said:

Another huge leak:

According to videocardz, all RTX 30 series card will feature a revision with a hardware limiter for mining.

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidias-whole-geforce-rtx-30-lineup-to-receive-new-gpu-revisions-with-cryptomining-limiter

To add to this, it looks like they're using a different chip this time around. 

https://www.igorslab.de/en/jensens-anti-mining-move-nvidias-new-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-will-get-the-new-chip-pre-installed-with-hash-brake-exclusively-before-launch/

Spoiler

So, as correctly reported yesterday, the GA102 will become the GA102-202 or GA102-302.

 

Just saying: new firmware of the MP on the old QS runs for graphics, but the beta driver does not do it for CUDA and ETH, which should be the lesser evil for many though. If you flash old firmware to a new chip, the screen will remain completely dark. To protect the sources I will not write in detail how these differences look like, but it turned out to be more or less the same in all attempts of different participants. It’s actually almost like the Turing cards with A-chips back in the day. Almost, because it is fundamentally different in consequence.

However, I wonder if the screen turning dark is as simple as no video output. 

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, tikker said:

I wonder if there is something stopping them from nerfing it further. They've demonstrated they can limit the hashrate, so if they'd truly want to get rid of miners why not just chop its head off completely and limit it to like 5 MH/s. Could it be some limit that would start affecting other workloads as well or do they just sectrely-but-not-so-secretly still like the extra $$$ from selling them.

Because mining algorithms, or in reality the algorithms used for mining are also used for other purposes and research. There are for example file storage software that use it.

 

Also the general and obvious reason, it's a sale so why would Nvidia want to reduce product sales?

[Sauron]

Still not holding my breath on the limiter actually working and even if it does, this doesn't really solve the shortage and the scalping. In general I'm pretty skeptical of artificial limitations and, to some extent, I don't really think it's cool to have a piece of hardware prevent you from using it for whatever task you want. Ideally the cards should just be architecturally bad for mining; of course that's easier said than done.

3 hours ago, FakeKGB said:

Neither is gaming, or F@H.

At least one of those is fun and the other is useful, as opposed to mining which is neither and if you just want to play games you're unlikely to buy more than one or two cards...

3 hours ago, FakeKGB said:

And what about people who want to mine or run F@H in their spare time, like me?

You can still do F@H with these... as for mining, running one or two cards would only make financial sense if you're leeching electricity off of someone else so... maybe don't do that?

[Moonzy]

8 minutes ago, Random_Person1234 said:

Another huge leak:

According to videocardz, all RTX 30 series card will feature a revision with a hardware limiter for mining.

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidias-whole-geforce-rtx-30-lineup-to-receive-new-gpu-revisions-with-cryptomining-limiter

Interesting, my current cards price is going to the moon then

I didn't expect buying GPU is a good investment but here we are, 3090 is selling at $5000 when I asked

[tikker]

3 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

I'm of the opinion that it's just a PR stunt, and they're doing it to make it seem that they "care" about gamers, when they really don't.

Same.

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Because mining algorithms, or in reality the algorithms used for mining are also used for other purposes and research. There are for example file storage software that use it.

 

Also the general and obvious reason, it's a sale so why would Nvidia want to reduce product sales?

Haha yes. The sales aspect I was already convinced of. I don't know how they implement the limiter, but then it's probably as you say that stuff I'm not familiar with gets limited too much if they reduce it more.

2 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

Interesting, my current cards price is going to the moon then

I didn't expect buying GPU is a good investment but here we are, 3090 is selling at $5000 when I asked

Damn. Might as well sell and reinvest the profits lol.

[BuckGup]

4 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

They paid for a graphics card not a hash accelerator card, case closed.

That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. It's like saying you can't write the letter O with a pencil you bought or you need to buy a different CPU to play Call of Duty. At the end of the day it's just doing math very quickly in parallel. Gamer Entitlement is much worse than mining lol

[BuckGup]

18 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

3090 is selling at $5000 when I asked

No it's not lol. You can buy 3090s for $1999 but good luck getting any in stock. 

[Moonzy]

1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

No it's not lol. You can buy 3090s for $1999 but good luck getting any in stock. 

Exactly, my local retailers and suppliers are jackasses on top of that

 

It's the only 3090 in the entire tech mall I reckon

[Guest]

4 hours ago, themaniac said:

100% but my point still stands, your argument was that it was a graphics card not a hash card, so my arguement is that my shoes are running shoes, my pc is a gaming pc. If the purpose is not in the name than it cant be used for that purpose.

If you want to mine on a 3060 feel free to buy some of the overpriced cards on eBay. 
 

Feel free to do what you want with the stuff you buy, but everything has a purpose. You don’t buy training shoes to run in, you can - but they will suck at running. I don’t expect to sue Nike for my poor shoe choices. 

[Moonzy]

3 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

You don’t buy training shoes to run in, you can - but they will suck at running.

You don't expect them to shoot spikes at your legs if you use them for stuffs other than "training", that's what they're doing right now

 

Ignoring is not actively handicapping

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

You don't expect them to shoot spikes at your legs if you use them for stuffs other than "training", that's what they're doing right now

 

Ignoring is not actively handicapping

You can get chronic knee pain for using shoes not designed for running. 
 

If you want to mine, don’t buy this card. NVIDIA is not accountable for poor buying choices. There are plenty of dedicated mining equipment out there - you wouldn’t expect to play video games on a mining card.

[IkeaGnome]

2 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

You can get chronic knee pain for using shoes not designed for running. 
 

If you want to mine, don’t buy this card. NVIDIA is not accountable for poor buying choices. There are plenty of dedicated mining equipment out there - you wouldn’t expect to play video games on a mining card.

 

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, tishous said:

And gaming isn't? If every graphics card being used for mining suddenly was used for gaming instead, power usage would increase. Miners like efficiency, which means they undervolt and lower the power limit on their cards. Yes there are mining farms with hundreds if not thousands of GPUs, but if they weren't in that farm then they would be used for gaming or maybe even still be used for mining, just at a residential scale.

 

It's on the fence whether Nvidia should be allowed to block mining. From my POV, it's just them trying to make even more money. By blocking GeForce cards being able to mine, miners will be forced to buy their mining cards or ASICs, both of which are so much worse for the environment than regular GPUs.

 

 

In no world does mining use up less energy than gaming. Sure gaming might use more energy when playing AAA games at full blast but let's be honest here not everyone is playing AAA games and even if they do they aren't running the pc 24/7 like miners. At least with gaming its providing entertainment. With mining its simply doing calculations for transactions for a currency that really shouldn't exist. Its not even a currency tbh as its way to volatile and it doesn't even do what it set out to do. Cryptocurrency is simply a failure and should have never been invented. 

[Moonzy]

5 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

You can get chronic knee pain for using shoes not designed for running. 

yea but you dont expect nike to bust your kneecaps with a bat...?

 

likewise, i am fully aware that my GPU fans will die sooner, but not active intervention from nvidia

 

7 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

If you want to mine, don’t buy this card. NVIDIA is not accountable for poor buying choices. There are plenty of dedicated mining equipment out there - you wouldn’t expect to play video games on a mining card.

these are general purpose products, it's silly to think GPU are only for games

because even games utilise GPU differently

[jagdtigger]

22 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Gamer Entitlement is much worse than mining lol

Worthless worms sipping up <insert any product here> making prices insanely high just so they dont ahve to do any real work, nothing is worse than that.......

 

20 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

No it's not lol. You can buy 3090s for $1999 but good luck getting any in stock.

Now that is one hack of a truly stupidest arguments.

[leadeater]

17 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

You can get chronic knee pain for using shoes not designed for running. 
 

If you want to mine, don’t buy this card. NVIDIA is not accountable for poor buying choices. There are plenty of dedicated mining equipment out there - you wouldn’t expect to play video games on a mining card.

Just remember there is no such thing as a mining GPU. Nvidia makes GPU dies, from then on it's just product labeling. It'd be like Asics running shoes and walking shoes being literally the same shoe but with different accent colouring. That's not how it's done for shoes but that is how it is done for GPUs. RTX 3060 sort of the first to not be like that but unless the GA106-300 based products stay in production then it's not and it's still the same, just slapping a label on literally the same thing.

 

They for example make GA104 dies, then after validation and binning they get written with microcode and etched with either GA104-200-A1 (RTX 3060 Ti) or GA104-300-A1 (RTX 3070). They don't make GA104-200-A1 and GA104-300-A1 dies separately.

[Moonzy]

51 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I thought there was but when it comes to the huge value spikes that's more related to buying demand of the coins and supply of them. The supply of them is what's mostly affected by the difficulty so to speak so it shouldn't be a zero relationship to overall network rate and difficulty. However that said cryptocoin pricing is well, bloody rated to trend and analyze which is why I had to really dumb it way the hell now.

afaik, profitability goes up when trading volume goes up

because there's limited transaction that can be processed, so higher transaction fee payers gets processed first

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

afaik, profitability goes up when trading volume goes up

Yea that is much better wording, that is what I was meaning but it's very late here lol

 

Edit: Also profitability and coin value are different things though.

[Moonzy]

8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yea that is much better wording, that is what I was meaning but it's very late here lol

 

Edit: Also profitability and coin value are different things though.

exactly, that's why i said i dont see value of the coin affecting profitability directly

but indirectly, huge value change = huge trading volume, most of the time

 

so... back to halving of hash rate for every GPU: nothing will change, except the mining difficulty will adjust itself to maintain a fixed time to be solved.

 

edit: it's also late here so lulz, brain slow