New GA106-302 RTX 3060 Revision coming with Hardware Based Mining Limiter coming in May, Possibly coming to the rest of RTX 30 series

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, SlidewaysZ said:

I actually never said anything about it being bad for the environment. Maybe you should go back and actually read my comments. I just hate people  using up the GPU supply.

you do realize that most of it is gamers, right?

[Blademaster91]

22 minutes ago, leadeater said:

If we go down this route of segmenting cards then you're just reducing the possibilities and future progression of gaming technology. If Nvidia chose not to allow CUDA on Geforce, or DirectX DirectCompute, way back when then we would not have a lot of the things we have today. A lot of the graphical effects used today actually utilize the compute pipeline of the GPUs not raster and that is only possible because it was not segmented off all those years ago.

Well if we keep going down the route of miners buying all the gpus meant for gaming then i think we would see less advancement in new gaming and rendering tech. 

Intereting nvidia wants to do this with all their cards though, i thought that marketing stunt completely backfired with the 3060 nerf not working lol. Also has me wondering if the rtx 3000 series chip shortage is really that bad since nvidia has enough fab space at Samsung to change the dies to ones with the ETH nerf.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Blademaster91

[jagdtigger]

3 minutes ago, Middcore said:

F@H is helping cure actual cancer. 

Who talked about nerfing FAH? This topic is about NV axing crypto mining performance, which is very  much needed at this point.

[Fasterthannothing]

Just now, HelpfulTechWizard said:

you do realize that most of it is gamers, right?

Most not all even a 20% reduction of purchases by removing mining would free up GPUs for gaming. Also you could clearly tell nerfing the 3060 with software had a good effect on the supply because when it was launched I saw multiple time where they were available to purchase for more than 10 seconds.

[Middcore]

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

Who talked about nerfing FAH? This topic is about NV axing crypto mining performance, which is very  much needed at this point.

 

Well, if you extend the argument that a graphics card is only for graphics to its logical conclusion... 

[leadeater]

18 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Intereting nvidia wants to do this with all their cards though

I don't think they actually do, not really. They are more being forced to by public pressure which generally is a good thing. The reason why I say Nvidia doesn't want to do this is because, and likely on purpose, it's very hard to distinguish product sales classified by purpose for Geforce cards. Why this matters is due to financial reporting and investment along with company valuations.

 

The truth is nobody here actually knows how much impact mining sales is having on supply, because it's impossible to know. People see picture of large warehouses of GPUs and think that it's a lot, and while it may be a few thousand cards it's literally a tiny fraction of GPU production for a singular month.

 

I could easily argue AMD has a lot of blame here since they do not have integrated GPUs in their desktop CPUs and large vendors like HP have started to push AMD products a lot more and now require a dedicated GPU to be bundled with the computer. I can for sure tell you HP is buying more GPUs than all the miners are, and that's just HP.

 

Now companies like HP were already buying GPUs so that's not new but what is new is they are selling over 60% more systems per year than they were before and now a larger portion of their desktop computer sales now include a dedicated GPU that was not that case before. General business computers with Intel CPUs are not sold with dedicated GPUs, this is not the case with AMD ones that don't use the APU product line which is a lot of them.

 

A lot of people are very confident mining sales have a significant impact on availability based on nothing but gut feel and emotion, where as using what available data we do have there are more likely causes. Mining isn't a zero impact but I think people accredit it much more than it actually is.

 

So while product segmentation for emotional purposes is fundamentally something we really should not be supporting I don't specifically object to feature reduced cards being added to product lines to address point in time issues so long as existing products are not removed. Then at least if miners want to pay inflated prices they can go right ahead and gamers will have nothing to object to, unless all the stock runs out anyway for the other existing causes and scalping remains.

[leadeater]

24 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Also has me wondering if the rtx 3000 series chip shortage is really that bad since nvidia has enough fab space at Samsung to change the dies to ones with the ETH ner

Well the chip shortages are that bad, basically all the big silicon companies have recently stated this will last up until 2023. So yea, hate to be the barer of bad news but projections are not looking good.

[tikker]

3 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

On one hand it should seriously destroy the demand for mining on RTX 3060s when this launches and the existing GA106-300 based models are all sold out.

The potential issue I see with this is that it currently just about halves (I believe) the hashrate (of the 3060 at least)? That creates a problem as, expecially for the 3080 Ti, that would a) still make it profitable to mine on and b) directly compete with their CMP lineup for better value (if those cards ever reach consumers).

[Moonzy]

< removed by moderation >

 

no further comment for this news tbh, whatever i wanna say has been said when 3060 announced the limiter

1) i dont like the idea of companies deciding what you can and cannot do on your hardware, adding feature sure, removing and artificially limiting, no

2) only limits ETH, so... meh

Edited April 18, 2021 by LogicalDrm

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

only limits ETH, so... meh

This^

It won't do anything. Mining will become less profitable on eth, so people will start mining something else.

[Moonzy]

ah, yea, im interested to see if there's any significant difference in perf between the cards in non-ETH tasks, that's one thing im looking forward to know

[IkeaGnome]

So this card is magically going to fix everything? They'll have a surplus stock of them when released. No scalpers will get them, and every single one will sell for MSRP. There won't be just as many people trying to get this card as every other card currently, and the hardware limitations will be locked out without costing performance in other tasks.

Spoiler

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

ah, yea, im interested to see if there's any significant difference in perf between the cards in non-ETH tasks, that's one thing im looking forward to know

Yeah. If they do a more general block, however, it might be needing perf in non mining tasks like f@h or (God prevent) gaming.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

This^

It won't do anything. Mining will become less profitable on eth, so people will start mining something else.

GA106-303, GA106-304, GA106-305 etc etc lol

 

Also like a said in the RTX 3060 limiter announcement topic the issue is purely distribution and procurement related, mining limiting is such a tangential and doomed to failure solution. It simply will not work no matter how much anyone wishes that it will.

 

If Nvidia truly wanted to prioritize GPU dies and sales of graphics cards to gamers they could, they really could. Since they are not doing that it tells you everything you need to know about how much they actually care about gamers specifically over sales of GPUs in general. The same solution could/would also fix the scalping issue too.

[tishous]

55 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I could easily argue AMD has a lot of blame here since they do not have integrated GPUs in their desktop CPUs and large vendors like HP have started to push AMD products a lot more and now require a dedicated GPU to be bundled with the computer. I can for sure tell you HP is buying more GPUs than all the miners are, and that's just HP.

I don't get your point... How can a CPU company be blamed for GPU shortages? Unless I have completely misunderstood what you're saying.

 

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

include a dedicated GPU that was not that case before. General business computers with Intel CPUs are not sold with dedicated GPUs, this is not the case with AMD ones that don't use the APU product line which is a lot of them.

General business computers don't need an RTX 3080. People aren't really bothered about gt 1030s or gt 710s or whatever other GPU can act as a display output. If HP are in fact selling these office PCs with high end GPUs then that's entirely the fault of HP, not AMD.

[tikker]

< removed by moderation >

  

17 hours ago, tishous said:

I don't get your point... How can a CPU company be blamed for GPU shortages? Unless I have completely misunderstood what you're saying.

They meant that because AMD CPUs don't have integrated GPUs like Intel's, every person that now goes out and buys an AMD CPU will immediately need to buy a GPU as well and every prebuilt that has an AMD CPU will need to include a GPU, contributing to an increasing demand for GPUs.

Edited April 18, 2021 by LogicalDrm

[leadeater]

35 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

only limits ETH, so... meh

Correct me if I am wrong here but follow along until the end and let me know if I'm incorrect.

 

Cryptocurrency algorithm difficulty is dynamic and is based on how quickly a solution is found, if it is above the threshold (too fast) the difficulty is increased and if it is below (too slow) the difficulty is reduced. Traditionally as the difficulty increases the value of the cryptocurrency increases, and as it decreases the value also decreases, as well as other factors.

 

So if the cryptocurrency network performance is halved due to the introduction of a mining performance limiter then the, very roughly speaking, algorithm difficulty will half so the solution rate will double i.e. profitability remains unchanged.

 

60 KH/s at difficulty 2 = 1 Eth per day at $10

30 KH/s at difficulty 1 = 2 Eth per day at $5

Note: Made up BS numbers of course.

 

So good job you're at net zero, miners are making the same profit?

 

Again hugely over simplified.

[tishous]

Just now, tikker said:

He meant that because AMD CPUs don't have integrated GPUs like Intel's, every person that now goes out and buys an AMD CPU will immediately need to buy a GPU as well and every prebuilt that has an AMD CPU will need to include a GPU.

Then everyone that goes out and buys an AMD CPU knowing they don't have iGPUs and may not be able to use their new PC have only themselves to blame. And if they don't know that, then it's their fault for being uninformed when it comes to spending hundreds on a new PC. I can't wrap my head around blaming AMD just because they don't have an integrated GPU. 

 

[tikker]

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Correct me if I am wrong here but follow along until the end and let me know if I'm incorrect.

Haha wow, I honestly did not even consider this yet and you are correct to my knowledge. Ethereum's blocktime is around 15 seconds or so. It'll take a set number of blocks (I believe) for the network to adjust, but indeed even in the case that they'd now roll out a universal hasrate limiter to all GPUs, eventually the network would adjust to that 15 seconds again and you'd be back at the start.

 

7 minutes ago, tishous said:

Then everyone that goes out and buys an AMD CPU knowing they don't have iGPUs and may not be able to use their new PC have only themselves to blame. And if they don't know that, then it's their fault for being uninformed when it comes to spending hundreds on a new PC. I can't wrap my head around blaming AMD just because they don't have an integrated GPU. 

 

That's not what was being said. It wasn't about the customer blindy buying a CPU with graphics output, it was about the fact that the big promotion and movement towards AMD's CPUs (whatever the buyer's reasons are) puts an additional strain on GPU supply, because at the moment they don't include iGPUs. Sure these might be "lowly" 3060 class or lower cards, but will impact the supply.

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, tishous said:

I don't get your point... How can a CPU company be blamed for GPU shortages? Unless I have completely misunderstood what you're saying.

See below

 

3 minutes ago, tikker said:

They meant that because AMD CPUs don't have integrated GPUs like Intel's, every person that now goes out and buys an AMD CPU will immediately need to buy a GPU as well and every prebuilt that has an AMD CPU will need to include a GPU, contributing to an increasing demand for GPUs.

 

I will add though the current refreshes of product lines I have seen start to move over to the APUs as they offered up to 8 cores in the Ryzen Pro 4000 APU series. So that issues is starting to go away.

 

6 minutes ago, tishous said:

General business computers don't need an RTX 3080. People aren't really bothered about gt 1030s or gt 710s or whatever other GPU can act as a display output. If HP are in fact selling these office PCs with high end GPUs then that's entirely the fault of HP, not AMD.

Any increase in GPU demand for models that are manufactured on the same silicon fab process will affect all products on that silicon fab process.

[jagdtigger]

12 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Oh. I mean, AMD restocked everything yesterday. All of the 3xxx series had at least 6 drops each yesterday besides the 3090 which had two. 3060 was just in stock.

Last time i spoke to one of the ppl working at the local IT shop (few weeks ago when i picked up the new monitor[sold the old ones to get the money for it]) he said they were only able to get a single 3060 and nothing else, and dont expect that they can get any more in the foreseeable future.... To top it off even their suppliers hiked the prices like crazy.

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, jagdtigger said:

Last time i spoke to one of the ppl working at the local IT shop he said they were only able to get a single 3060, and dont expect that they can get any more in the foreseeable future....

Oh. I could have gotten a 3060 if I wanted a little bit ago. You just gotta have patience and know where/when to look. They really aren't that hard to get. I almost got a 6800 XT yesterday for a friend building this pc. Had a 3060 in my cart, explained to him how it would do compared to the XT and then removed it like 10 minutes ago.

[WhitetailAni]

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

Last time i spoke to one of the ppl working at the local IT shop he said they were only able to get a single 3060, and dont expect that they can get any more in the foreseeable future....

Local IT shop =/= giant megacorp such as NewEgg and Best Buy

There are plenty of people who have managed to get a card. Just for the fun of it, I got a 3070 FE and 3060 Ti FE in my Best Buy cart. It's not hard if you actually work for it, rather than just mindlessly screaming "mining bad, cryptocurrency needs to die".

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, tishous said:

Then everyone that goes out and buys an AMD CPU knowing they don't have iGPUs and may not be able to use their new PC have only themselves to blame.

That wasn't the point, vendors like HP have supply agreements and priority so an increase in GPU supply requirement for them means less supply to the retail DIY market. If HP need a GPU in a model of computer to sell it then HP will get that GPU, you/I will have to wait unless we are buying that HP computer.

[Zodiark1593]

3 hours ago, SlidewaysZ said:

No nerf anything that's not specifically gaming for all I freaking care. If you need to mine buy a mining card. If you need it for a workstation and rendering buy a professional card built for that. 

This is the kind of comment that I really want a Thumbs Down for. 
 

Not only are high end Geforce cards actually faster for rendering and many traditional workstation tasks (meaning Quadros are horrible for price/performance, even compared to scalped GeForce cards), CUDA is actually an advertised feature of GeForce cards, so I expect it to not be encumbered by artificial limitations.