Mine Crypto Before It's Too Late! (SPONSORED)

[gloop]

In before it devolves into a 7 page argument about mining and its side effects like all topics mentioning mining on Tech News. 

[JoeLogs]

Hey I'm a big fan, but have never posted on the forums before. Just wanted to make an account to say cryptocurrency sucks and please don't promote it in the future. I work in cybersecurity and crypto causes us tons of headaches, between malicious miners and more importantly ransomware cryptocurrency enables sophisticated FINCRIME groups to sustain huge operations dedicated to making the internet less safe!

Also despite being far less than 1% of the worlds transactions bitcoin alone had the same carbon footprint as New Zealand in 2020. It's a huge waste of energy, which is bad because we're rapidly approaching climate catastrophe! 

Also if you look into the enthusiastic ideological "true believer" types in Silicon Valley that are dumping money into trying to make cryptocurrency viable they're all Peter Thiel neoreactionary types that are super interested in building up parallel institutions to the state so they can weaken democracy in the interest of strengthening "liberty (by which they mean the right to be taxed). It's really dark stuff! 

[IkeaGnome]

4 minutes ago, JoeLogs said:

don't promote it in the future.

I'm curious why you chose now to post. 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[poochyena]

2 hours ago, hailvera said:

Did Linus not make a video recently where mentioned the negative impacts mining has on the environment?

for large scale mining, yes. this is for low scale, which has very little impact if being done in your house during the winter.

[Poinkachu]

39 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

So, I have a more than full time job. Having a rig run while I'm not home. No one else would be using my computer is "Why should I bother doing chores for $10?"

Scalped prices are already stabilized to coin prices. Nothing is changing here.

I think if you did the ROI math you'd be surprised...

It's good if you have a full time job and treats mining just as side income.
But can we say the same mindset will happen for everyone? especially the less mature?. Even an adult can turn into a lazybum if they are given enough dose of it.
This was my main point behind "Might promote lazyness". A part of it due to Linus is a big name influencer. Someone might say "Meh" when s/he hears me say "Mine Before It's Too Late", but s/he might go on a total frenzy when she hears it from a big enough influencer / notable person.

Scalped price always moves with supply & demand, not with coin price.
Even if Eth stays at $100 as long there's more demand than supply, price will go up.
If it can happens to toilet paper & hand sanitizers, it can happen for anything. xD

Eventually one will get the amount they spent, what differs from each cases is : How long before you break even.
Well, atleast if no big regulative movements from governments or from crypto system itself.

But my main point wasn't that.
My point is that once the prices got high enough, Decent PC parts (or Gaming PC in a whole) might become something like an exclusive commodity, at the very least to some if not most people. Like..... let's say a Hermes bag. Just like years ago. And remember years ago computer advancement was slow as heck due to not enough popularity.

Not to mention that if good enough PC parts becomes too burdensome to buy, PC game advancement might be stalled too. No point making a state of the art of the year game if there's barely enough people out there with PC capable enough to play it.

But eh, we'll see what will happen, at the very least right now there is still console as a viable option. xD

[IkeaGnome]

6 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

s/he might go on a total frenzy when she hears it from a big enough influencer / notable person.

So it has to be bad because someone might not do research before dumping life savings? That sounds like an impulsive person that has other issues that need talked about with a therapist.

 

8 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

Scalped price always moves with supply & demand, not with coin price.
Even if Eth stays at $100 as long there's more demand than supply, price will go up.
If it can happens to toilet paper & hand sanitizers, it can happen for anything. xD

Ever wonder why the 3060TI costs the same as a 3070 on eBay? Might want to sit down and do some ROI math. You'd be surprised. I actually just did this last week. If you do that math for 3060 TI, 70,80 and 90, you'd be surprised.

10 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

Eventually one will get the amount they spent, what differs from each cases is : How long before you break even.

Again, read above. You'd be surprised.

11 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

My point is that once the prices got high enough, Decent PC parts (or Gaming PC in a whole) might become something like an exclusive commodity, at the very least to some if not most people. Like..... let's say a Hermes bag. Just like years ago. And remember years ago computer advancement was slow as heck due to not enough popularity.

While that is a side effect, there's a bigger picture. If GPUs become completely Crypto ran. What happens when 4080 comes out and does better than 3080? 3080s in the garbage? No, 3080s for sale again. Before you start with "worn out mining hardware" you might look into how hardware is actually ran by most miners. 

13 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

Not to mention that if good enough PC parts becomes too burdensome to buy, PC game advancement might be stalled too. No point making a state of the art of the year game if there's barely enough people out there with PC capable enough to play it.

Worked for Cyberpunk. Look at their sales ♥

[ion1]

According to profit calculator my 2060S would make 120€ a month, after electricity costs about 105€, propably less if you undervolt and deduct gaming time and taxes. So like maybe a 50-80€ in the end which doesn't really change my life in any way.

 

The heat in winter can make up for the electricity but in my experience even the heat from gaming gets trapped in my small room and just makes it uncomfortable, I don't see it worth the effort really even if you can justify the environmental impact and don't believe in components wearing out in use.

[Dracarris]

2 hours ago, hailvera said:

Did Linus not make a video recently where mentioned the negative impacts mining has on the environment?

Since Linus' electricity and heating is done through hydropower, there is no issue in recommending heating your house with mining electricity for everyone around the globe, since no one gets their elecricity from non-renewable sources or has a grid that cannot handle a vastly increased load.

[JoeLogs]

35 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

I'm curious why you chose now to post. 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

I only started watching LTT in mid 2019 and don't think I'd ever seen any video where they're boosting crypto. If I had a probably would've said it sucked then as well

[dogwitch]

i mean i use better hash. due to reporting dev abot a maleware that slip in from a third party add on they support.

they luagh me off.

anyhow if it to make a bit of extra cash or or heat a room or two in winter.

total fine.

how many large scale user are on this site? not many for mining.

[sub68]

38 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

I'm curious why you chose now to post. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

you forgot the hard drive mining disaster they tried to do

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, sub68 said:

you forgot the hard drive mining disaster they tried to do

Wasn't there a motherboard one also? Or was that the hard drive?

[tikker]

  

7 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

So it has to be bad because someone might not do research before dumping life savings? That sounds like an impulsive person that has other issues that need talked about with a therapist.

Well FOMO is very strong currently. Not saying LTT is shilling here or that people shouldn't think for themselves of course, but it's hard to ignore something that has increased in value so much in so little time.

38 minutes ago, JoeLogs said:

Hey I'm a big fan, but have never posted on the forums before. Just wanted to make an account to say cryptocurrency sucks and please don't promote it in the future. I work in cybersecurity and crypto causes us tons of headaches, between malicious miners and more importantly ransomware cryptocurrency enables sophisticated FINCRIME groups to sustain huge operations dedicated to making the internet less safe!

Making the internet less safe? I'm curious about these "malicious miners" and "ransomware cryptocurrency". Could you explain more? The blockchain is there to prevent malicious miners. They either need to control 51% of the network in proof of work or have 51% of the capital in proof of stake. Regarding ransomware, crypto itself can't even do that, it's just a number. Sure the folks holding your computer ransom demand it, but that's nothing different from them demanding you to pay dollars. If you got ransomed, then you have downloaded something wrongly.

 

46 minutes ago, JoeLogs said:

Also despite being far less than 1% of the worlds transactions bitcoin alone had the same carbon footprint as New Zealand in 2020. It's a huge waste of energy, which is bad because we're rapidly approaching climate catastrophe!

Yep, and pretty much everyone in the crypto sphere agrees that proof of work needs to die if crypto is to become something sustainable

 

34 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

But eh, we'll see what will happen, at the very least right now there is still console as a viable option. xD

Inb4 they find some mod that allows consolse to mine.

[sub68]

1 minute ago, IkeaGnome said:

Wasn't there a motherboard one also? Or was that the hard drive?

no it was the hard drive one

[Loki0111]

LTT 2021

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villian."

[IkeaGnome]

2 minutes ago, tikker said:

Well FOMO is very strong currently. Not saying LTT is shilling here or that people shouldn't think for themselves of course, but it's hard to ignore something that has increased in value so much in so little time.

So let's protect the people that will do that. No more computer parts for sale!

[warriorscot]

48 minutes ago, JoeLogs said:

Hey I'm a big fan, but have never posted on the forums before. Just wanted to make an account to say cryptocurrency sucks and please don't promote it in the future. I work in cybersecurity and crypto causes us tons of headaches, between malicious miners and more importantly ransomware cryptocurrency enables sophisticated FINCRIME groups to sustain huge operations dedicated to making the internet less safe!

Also despite being far less than 1% of the worlds transactions bitcoin alone had the same carbon footprint as New Zealand in 2020. It's a huge waste of energy, which is bad because we're rapidly approaching climate catastrophe! 

Also if you look into the enthusiastic ideological "true believer" types in Silicon Valley that are dumping money into trying to make cryptocurrency viable they're all Peter Thiel neoreactionary types that are super interested in building up parallel institutions to the state so they can weaken democracy in the interest of strengthening "liberty (by which they mean the right to be taxed). It's really dark stuff! 

Dark doesn't mean bad, there are a lot of good things about crypto that would really make a difference to elevating people out of poverty. There is a whole racket that is totally legal around fleecing hard working migrants as they send money back to support their families.

 

It is a total headache, but I think all it really does is expose the shadiness that goes around everywhere, do you think criminals aren't doing all those things without crypto? Like anything it's just another avenue that brings good and bad. 

 

I do think ASIC resistant and proof of stake is a good way to go, but as a technology there are some real advantages to be had on the legitimate applications. What we are seeing now is a new generation of blockchain applications and it is totally the wild west, but even the west was won and I wouldn't want to see all the benefits gone as they go beyond traditional currency applications like I described above. Things like what BAT and Brave is doing I think is really innovative and good for the internet for example, and what cortex is doing with blockchain in AI has real potential, and NFTs while stupid represents possible solutions to getting artists paid for their work when combined with solutions like BAT. 

[Dracarris]

47 minutes ago, poochyena said:

for large scale mining, yes. this is for low scale, which has very little impact if being done in your house during the winter.

So once more, we forget about the fact that outside of North America most people don't use electricity for heating, for very good reason.

[JoeLogs]

Just now, tikker said:

 

Making the internet less safe? I'm curious about these "malicious miners" and "ransomware cryptocurrency". Could you explain more? The blockchain is there to prevent malicious miners. They either need to control 51% of the network in proof of work or have 51% of the capital in proof of stake. Regarding ransomware, crypto itself can't even do that, it's just a number. Sure the folks holding your computer ransom demand it, but that's nothing different from them demanding you to pay dollars. If you got ransomed, then you have downloaded something wrongly.

 

By malicious miners I'm talking about malicious software that uses your computer's hardware to mine without your knowledge. That and ransomware are easily the two most common forms of malware right now. By offering a relatively secure and anonymous way for attackers to collect ransoms cryptocurrency allows FINCRIME groups, which are generally just straight up organized criminals to conduct incredibly lucrative ransomware campaigns. The WannaCry attack, which was paired with a wormable exploit called deepblue cause BILLIONS of dollars in damages in a single day and put a ton of money into the North Korean governments pocket, thanks cryptocurrency! Cryptocurrency and cybercrime are so intertwined that that's there's an entire industry of ransomware incident response teams, and part of their expertise is the ability to quickly acquire huge amounts of whatever currency the attackers are demanding, determine if the ransom is legal to pay (because sometimes the attackers is actually a sanctioned nation state and if you pay the ransom you can have legal liability for violating sanctions!), and trying to negotiate the ransom down.

This cyber crime industry would almost certainly be smaller and less destructive if cryptocurrency didn't exist! It is a huge headache for the cybersecurity industry!

[JoeLogs]

4 minutes ago, warriorscot said:

Dark doesn't mean bad, there are a lot of good things about crypto that would really make a difference to elevating people out of poverty. There is a whole racket that is totally legal around fleecing hard working migrants as they send money back to support their families.

 

I bought some eth ages ago cause I was curious about it, I recently realized it had become worth like $6000, I wanted to transfer it to coinbase to cash out, and it had a "Gas fee" of like $60. Fiat is way cheaper and faster to move.

[linuxChips2600]

1 hour ago, eldiabolo said:

So, this is a bit sad... 

 

As others have pointed out, this whole behaviour is super hypocritical. Usually advocating for gamers, even getting your verified gamer programm or whatever on the way, but then  promoting the very shit industry that's leading to one of the biggest fuckups in tech history. I know. Linus hasn't exactly stated to buy new graphics cards for mining, but what does he thinks is going to happen when people get into mining because of this video? This i BS... Besides the enviromental impact its just super painful for gamers these days and LTT can't seem to skip on a coupl bucks promoting this BS. 

 

Call me bitter, call me childish, but I'm so angry like I haven't been in a long time. I really liked the channel and brand (even though i liked the more unprofessional videos in the beginning more, not a fan of this commercialization, but oh well...) you made interesting videos, but this is just a huge No for me. I will unsub from anything that has do with LTT, I will go out of my way to not get in contact with anything LTT and most certainly not recommend your videos to anybody anymore. I honestly wish you all the worst and hope you fail miserably. (Not that that seems likely, but it seems like a good way to express my disgust)

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, IkeaGnome said:

Here's my take on it. He's done crypto videos before. This might not be the best time for one. Pretty much everyone is up in arms right now. A lot of it is people not seeing the bigger picture. They see miners buying cards at high prices and assume that's why they can't get one. There's a shortage that's so bad auto manufacturers are having a hard time making ECMs right now. This puts people against miners. Miners getting attacked from all side puts them in an auto defense mode. Just look at any of the crypto threads in the last two weeks. Even when it's not starting as "miners bad" it turns into "miners bad." Gamers aren't free of fault here. People thinking they need the newest and best ( I am one, look at my signature) and then get angry when they can't get it. They're also forgetting that these are used in everything from rendering to super computers to science. I've yet to see one "video makers bad", "Super computers bad", "Scientists bad" thread. 

 

As for the sponsor spot, given their recent...issues... it's not the best to take. I think they did worse with R:SL. It is possible that they are actually disconnected enough from mining that they didn't know about the recent..issues.. around NH. 

 

Edit:

Also, @linuxChips2600I just want to clear up. I did read your spoiler. That's more or less why I'm engaging you here instead of anyone else. If it causes negative feelings, let me know and I'll stop. I really do like talking about stuff like this and trying to look at both side.

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

So it has to be bad because someone might not do research before dumping life savings? That sounds like an impulsive person that has other issues that need talked about with a therapist.

 

Ever wonder why the 3060TI costs the same as a 3070 on eBay? Might want to sit down and do some ROI math. You'd be surprised. I actually just did this last week. If you do that math for 3060 TI, 70,80 and 90, you'd be surprised.

Again, read above. You'd be surprised.

While that is a side effect, there's a bigger picture. If GPUs become completely Crypto ran. What happens when 4080 comes out and does better than 3080? 3080s in the garbage? No, 3080s for sale again. Before you start with "worn out mining hardware" you might look into how hardware is actually ran by most miners. 

Worked for Cyberpunk. Look at their sales ♥

@IkeaGnome tbf I greatly appreciate your civility in this debate, but please be careful of what you say as all this debate is really starting to look like this:

[poochyena]

17 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

So once more, we forget about the fact that outside of North America most people don't use electricity for heating, for very good reason.

Yes, I know. Its not as efficient as other forms of heating, of which most people use, but even if using gas or whatever else, it won't raise your electricity costs that much. Its not like mining during the summer or in a warehouse where the heat is completed wasted, it would still be used to heat your home.

[IkeaGnome]

2 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Yes, I know. Its not as efficient as other forms of heating, of which most people use, but even if using gas or whatever else, it won't raise your electricity costs that much. Its not like mining during the summer or in a warehouse where the heat is completed wasted, it would still be used to heat your home.

Or in my case, I can use the propane heater, a wood stove and/or a fuel oil stove depending on how cold it is. Or propane.

Spoiler

 

[tikker]

12 minutes ago, JoeLogs said:

By malicious miners I'm talking about malicious software that uses your computer's hardware to mine without your knowledge. That and ransomware are easily the two most common forms of malware right now.

Sure, but that doesn't make crypto bad. That's just computers getting infected with malware. I can see how this type of mining could pose tricky to crack from a fincrime perspective though.

14 minutes ago, JoeLogs said:

Cryptocurrency and cybercrime are so intertwined that that's there's an entire industry of ransomware incident response teams

This is comparing apples with oranges in my opinion. I believe you that ransomware is surging (lots of local universities have been held ransom past year for example), but ransomware incident response teams would have existed with or without crypto. Only 0.34% of crypto seems to illegal activities (maybe a bit underestimated based on previous paragraph).

18 minutes ago, JoeLogs said:

part of their expertise is the ability to quickly acquire huge amounts of whatever currency the attackers are demanding, determine if the ransom is legal to pay (because sometimes the attackers is actually a sanctioned nation state and if you pay the ransom you can have legal liability for violating sanctions!), and trying to negotiate the ransom down.

Is that really how ransom negotiations go? Get out the money bags? Not trying to sound condescending here, genuinely interested, as the advice is always to never pay. On the plus side, with crypto you'll have the benefit of being able to trace exactly where it goes if they don't use a privacy coin.

16 minutes ago, JoeLogs said:

I bought some eth ages ago cause I was curious about it, I recently realized it had become worth like $6000, I wanted to transfer it to coinbase to cash out, and it had a "Gas fee" of like $60. Fiat is way cheaper and faster to move.

Yeah Ethereum gas high fees are wicked currently. Another alt coin would've probably been a better choice for moving stuff around. Nano and Stellar are super quick in transferring for example (and also aim more to be a currency currency).

[Loki0111]

10 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Yes, I know. Its not as efficient as other forms of heating, of which most people use, but even if using gas or whatever else, it won't raise your electricity costs that much. Its not like mining during the summer or in a warehouse where the heat is completed wasted, it would still be used to heat your home.

Lets just all be honest here, people are not going to only mine in the winter to heat their homes. That is a false herring to try and deflect the conversation. People are going to mine all year around as long as its profitable to do so.

 

Crypto mining consumes electricity and in most places that is largely not coming from renewable sources. There are a number of different estimates for the volume of carbon emissions crypto mining activities generate (most are not recent enough to take in into account the latest mining spike). But its a measured metric that has estimates out there.

 

But to assert that mining is not generating a significant amount of additional carbon emissions and actually truly believe that you'd have to be having a borderline clinical psychotic break with reality.