[Rumour] [AdoredTV] Intel Xe graphics project effectively dead?

[leadeater]

15 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Well, from what I know, Lenovo at least are not interested in using Xe in laptops at all.something about C states being too power hungry. Sooo, that's where I'm basing my assumption off of

Lenovo and other OEMs have Tiger Lake development units preparing for new model revisions. Xe in laptop mobile is replacing Iris Pro, for the most part it's just a branding change and Iris Pro was going to get improved likely by the same amount and architecturally Xe is just a revision of Iris Pro here anyway.

 

Despite what people may think Xe isn't some completely new architecture and is just building on top of what Intel as already been doing, not the iGPU ones anyway.

 

I wouldn't put any credence to C state rumors, that's normal for engineering chips and probably just isn't fully implemented in the microcode if it actually was a thing at some point. Even with zero C states and the chip running a full power all the time it's not going to change the performance of the GPU, C states are to lower power not increase it. C states are a CPU thing anyway, GPUs don't use that but I guess people don't really have a generic term for it so C states fits the need to talk about it.

[5x5]

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Lenovo and other OEMs have Tiger Lake development units preparing for new model revisions. Xe in laptop mobile is replacing Iris Pro, for the most part it's just a branding change and Iris Pro was going to get improved likely by the same amount and architecturally Xe is just a revision of Iris Pro here anyway.

 

Despite what people may think Xe isn't some completely new architecture and is just building on top of what Intel as already been doing, not the iGPU ones anyway.

 

I wouldn't put any credence to C state rumors, that's normal for engineering chips and probably just isn't fully implemented in the microcode if it actually was a thing at some point. Even with zero C states and the chip running a full power all the time it's not going to change the performance of the GPU, C states are to lower power not increase it. C states are a CPU thing anyway, GPUs don't use that but I guess people don't really have a generic term for it so C states fits the need to talk about it.

I cannot comment on what I don't know but from what I have read online and what I've been told by contacts - Xe isn't impressive in its current iteration and that's why the rumours of its death are spreading. Some are calling it Larrabee 2

[porina]

2 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

Intel: *promotes CFO to CEO*

I haven't verified it, and hope I'm not getting people mixed up, but I think he does have some engineering background and isn't a pure bean counter.

 

34 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

We don't have a single laptop XE GPU out.

It is part of the impending Tiger Lake launch. We probably don't have long to wait and see what that brings.

 

4 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

I cannot comment on what I don't know but from what I have read online and what I've been told by contacts - Xe isn't impressive in its current iteration and that's why the rumours of its death are spreading. Some are calling it Larrabee 2

What would replace Xe if they get rid of it? It is the incoming iGPU, soon on mobile, near future on desktop. Unless it is so bad they revert back to older iGPUs, it will be around until there is something else to replace it.

 

Killing dGPU remains a maybe, but I can't see the iGPU going anywhere.

[samcool55]

Well 10nm has problems, and it seems like 7nm has issues too.

Getting into the GPU market is probably something they want to do even more now instead of giving up.

 

The margins on high-end stuff is massive (2080ti, titan and quadro) and if they somehow manage to compete even a bit, it would help.

[5x5]

37 minutes ago, porina said:

I haven't verified it, and hope I'm not getting people mixed up, but I think he does have some engineering background and isn't a pure bean counter.

 

It is part of the impending Tiger Lake launch. We probably don't have long to wait and see what that brings.

 

What would replace Xe if they get rid of it? It is the incoming iGPU, soon on mobile, near future on desktop. Unless it is so bad they revert back to older iGPUs, it will be around until there is something else to replace it.

 

Killing dGPU remains a maybe, but I can't see the iGPU going anywhere.

I mean Ice Lake is not doing well. Most OEMs are selling Coffee Lake ULVs and Ice Lake is less prevalent. I don't think Tiger Lake is going to be too different unless Intel drastically scale down the insane prices. Most OEMs prefer using Coffee Lake ULVs simply due to lower prices for basically the same end result.

[wall03]

10 hours ago, RotoCoreOne said:

It seems like a lot of companies are quick to end a product if the returns arent there in the short term

Google pixel be like

[Tristerin]

Major corporations typically focus on one thing in markets like this:

 

If you make the day, you make the week, you make the quarter, you make the year.  (staying within EBIT budget)

 

How do you make the day?  Make some business critical decisions that ensure that daily you are above all of the variable costs targets. 

 

And last but certainly not least, the majority of these white collar higher ups are psychopaths that have the ability to get another high paying job shortly after getting ousted or leaving another high paying job, so they dont think like you and I (I have no higher education) in terms of keeping a job.  Careers now-a-days are field relevant not company relevant.

[Soppro]

As expected, there's a lot of people using this as even more fuel that Intel's fked, etc, but personally I've still got faith in Xe and considering the sparsity of information about the project, I suspect this is highly, highly speculative commentary.

[S w a t s o n]

Wait really? If Xe is dead Aurora is dead or now AMD?

 

I just read the OP properly, they are going to fucking force themselves to make this for Aurora until 2023 basically? Intel is FUCKED

[porina]

56 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Only one of these has an Intel GPU part, the rest appar to be nVidia parts.

Can you help me out here, where's the Intel GPU? I can't see one. If you're looking at the Xeon Phi, while it kinda sits between a pure CPU and GPU, I'd argue it is way closer to a CPU than GPU in that each core of it is an x86 CPU.

[Kisai]

1 minute ago, porina said:

Can you help me out here, where's the Intel GPU? I can't see one. If you're looking at the Xeon Phi, while it kinda sits between a pure CPU and GPU, I'd argue it is way closer to a CPU than GPU in that each core of it is an x86 CPU.

Xe looks to be the successor to Phi, we just don't really know what Xe is yet since only some engineers have it.

[porina]

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

Xe looks to be the successor to Phi, we just don't really know what Xe is yet since only some engineers have it.

Xe is the successor to... I don't even know what it is called. Whatever they call a GPU today. Intel UHD Graphics and friends. Phi was really different. It was essentially a double helping of FPU strapped onto an Atom x86 core. Potentially great if you're doing a lot of FP64 work, which is used a lot in traditional HPC, but not so much for other uses. At most Xe is only a successor in time to the Phi, but I don't think there isn't a genetic connection between them. From what people have managed to pull out of code updates to support it, Xe does look a lot more like a traditional GPU.

[HumdrumPenguin]

Intel digged their own grave. Being 100% complacent for being on top for years completely crush any will to innovate. Whoever was calling the shots had absolutely no vision. Now I hope that the same won't happen to AMD after they completely establish their place on top of the market.  

[Nowak]

I'll believe it when I see it

[Kisai]

7 hours ago, porina said:

Xe is the successor to... I don't even know what it is called. Whatever they call a GPU today. Intel UHD Graphics and friends. Phi was really different. It was essentially a double helping of FPU strapped onto an Atom x86 core. Potentially great if you're doing a lot of FP64 work, which is used a lot in traditional HPC, but not so much for other uses. At most Xe is only a successor in time to the Phi, but I don't think there isn't a genetic connection between them. From what people have managed to pull out of code updates to support it, Xe does look a lot more like a traditional GPU.

Considering they dropped Phi, it and came out with that one slide that says Xe is going into everything from Super-Computers to laptop graphics, I'm more inclined to believe that it's not an evolution of the existing Iris Graphics-related GPU.

 

I'm more inclined to believe that there's actually more than one actual thing being made, and Xe is just the brand. Time will tell if this is actually what ends up in laptops, but as of right now Intel has nothing for Super-Computers other than the person in charge of Xe fondling a rather large chip in a twitter post.

 

My opinion, just based on , pretty much everything, is that there was a customer willing to buy the Xe parts.

 

https://wccftech.com/intel-xe-hpc-7nm-gpu-xeon-sapphire-rapids-cpu-powered-aurora-supercomputer-detailed/

 

 

Just, who knows, maybe Cray changed their mind.

 

Looks like Intel is losing out there.

 

[imreloadin]

Man, Intel is really messing up left and right these days it seems.

[porina]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

I'm more inclined to believe that there's actually more than one actual thing being made, and Xe is just the brand. Time will tell if this is actually what ends up in laptops, but as of right now Intel has nothing for Super-Computers other than the person in charge of Xe fondling a rather large chip in a twitter post.

That's not so much different from the high FP64 models that AMD and nvidia have, that we don't usually see as consumers. It is logical for Xe to go that route also.

 

What does "nothing for supercomputers" even mean here? They are delivering GPUs for the one in progress. That's a done deal.

 

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

Looks like Intel is losing out there.

Depends on how you pick which supercomputers to look at. They're used in 4 of the current top 10 list, with one from AMD, and the rest mostly Power and the odd one I never heard of before or will again. The US strategy in buying supercomputers might be changing from mix and match of suppliers to each one with CPU+GPU from a single source. As such, Intel needed a GPU to play in this area, and likewise nvidia need a competitive CPU too.

[Joseph K]

On 8/1/2020 at 7:18 PM, RotoCoreOne said:

I hope the rumors aren’t true, but I can see it happening, I guess. It seems like a lot of companies are quick to end a product if the returns arent there in the short term. Or they already see that the long term investment isnt worth it... id hope theyd know that building a good gpu takes several generations

Define "short term" because this project has been costing Intel billions for years.

[Belgarathian]

I don't know, if Intel can't pull their GPU game together between AMD and Apple I think they'll be squeezed in the mobile market...

[5x5]

5 hours ago, Belgarathian said:

I don't know, if Intel can't pull their GPU game together between AMD and Apple I think they'll be squeezed in the mobile market...

Xe cannot compete with proper dGPUs from either AMD or Nvidia. The goal is to make a mobile GPU that is not two times slower than Vega 6/7. That's what they're after. But by the time this thing comes to market, Navi iGPUs will be on the market and I seriously doubt it will be even close.

[Kisai]

23 hours ago, porina said:

Depends on how you pick which supercomputers to look at. They're used in 4 of the current top 10 list, with one from AMD, and the rest mostly Power and the odd one I never heard of before or will again. The US strategy in buying supercomputers might be changing from mix and match of suppliers to each one with CPU+GPU from a single source. As such, Intel needed a GPU to play in this area, and likewise nvidia need a competitive CPU too.

And if Intel can offer a CPU and GPU solution, then they don't need nVidia, where as nVidia always needs a CPU vendor, be that AMD, Intel, Power, ARM, or whatever.

 

That's the only reason IMO that nVidia might be after ARM. That would lower their costs to produce a CPU for this market. Intel on the otherhand just doesn't have a good track record with any of their GPU parts.

 

Oddly enough I only see AMD "winning" this kind of competition as long as they can produce things that neither Intel or nVidia can. That doesn't make me believe nVidia is going to fall behind, but nVidia has more to lose in producing a product nobody wants than Intel does. Intel has other products to sell.

[Spindel]

On 8/2/2020 at 7:54 AM, RejZoR said:

Sacking something after you've spent all the R&D on it and already have working products is what's actually stupid. Also it could be what would be keeping them afloat just like it did with AMD when their CPU division was struggling. Unless it's so crap it won't do even that on any level. Remember, AMD was kept up by Polaris class cards, so RX480/RX580 and RX590... Mid range cards.

Sunken cost fallacy.

 

You don’t throw good money after bad money.

[Trik'Stari]

On 8/1/2020 at 10:18 PM, RotoCoreOne said:

I hope the rumors aren’t true, but I can see it happening, I guess. It seems like a lot of companies are quick to end a product if the returns arent there in the short term. Or they already see that the long term investment isnt worth it... id hope theyd know that building a good gpu takes several generations

In my experience, corporations have the attention span of a really hyper little dog. Shareholders are supposedly even worse.

[RejZoR]

51 minutes ago, Spindel said:

Sunken cost fallacy.

 

You don’t throw good money after bad money.

Then you don't throw a money at something you apparently already know you can't do well. At all.

[CarlBar]

4 hours ago, 5x5 said:

Xe cannot compete with proper dGPUs from either AMD or Nvidia. The goal is to make a mobile GPU that is not two times slower than Vega 6/7. That's what they're after. But by the time this thing comes to market, Navi iGPUs will be on the market and I seriously doubt it will be even close.

 

I'd be interested in hearing a source on this because so far we know very little whatsoever about it.