[Updated, confirmed] Intel Coffee Lake CPUs will NOT be compatible with Z270 chipset motherboards

[Taf the Ghost]

1 minute ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Kaby Lake was compatible with Z170 though.  Repeat of Z87+Z97 and Z68+Z77.

 

There is always going to be a board at "the end of the line"

Board is one thing, but an entire Chipset was pretty much DOA.

[AnonymousGuy]

4 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Board is one thing, but an entire Chipset was pretty much DOA.

They added 4 PCIe lanes to the chipset to support more M.2 drives and add U.2.  Optane as well which was kinda useless for enthusiasts.

 

Was it a minor refresh?  Yeah.  But it's not like Z270 existing somehow creates harm.  Instead of buying a Z170 board you just went and bought a Z270 board.

 

EDIT:

I'll add Z370 is pretty much a worthless chipset because it's identical (I think) to Z270 in feature set.  It's literally called "KBL-R PCH".  They just upreved it to Z370 so consumers realize that CFL isn't compatible with Z270.

[mynameisjuan]

1 hour ago, huilun02 said:

Need a new processor for 4K Netflix? $300 key to enable RAID configs? What a joke

First DRM from streaming is not intels fault. If Netflix requires it then blame netflix stop whining to intel. Also the RAID key is bullshit but this has to do with native chipset support which right now doesnt exist and only exist on 3rd party chipsets.

 

Also people swap boards out for features. In a year or two type-c might be quite prevalent where you need more type-c ports and you will eventually have to upgrade. Expecting a board to last 4 years in the middle of some standard changes is unrealistic and on top of it most people dont upgrade every year but every 2-3 years anyway due to small upgrades. So bitching at intel for "OMG I need to buy a new board everytime" is just childish first world problems. 

[NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle]

When are the motherboards and processors supposed to be launched?

[JoostinOnline]

4 hours ago, Cookybiscuit said:

To the surprise of no one.

It surprised me.  Why use the same socket if you can't use it on the same board?

 

I'm happy about this though.  I know that sounds like a dick thing to say, but I explained my reasons here.  Intel not doing so well for a bit is really good for the market in the long run.

14 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

 Optane as well which was kinda useless for enthusiasts.

It's useless for everyone.  Do you think that people who don't have an SSD as a boot drive are going to know how to set up RAID?

[AnonymousGuy]

2 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

It's useless for everyone.  Do you think that people who don't have an SSD as a boot drive are going to know how to set up RAID?

OEM's my friend.

Why does everyone keep forgetting that DIY builds are a tiny minority of the population?

[JoostinOnline]

Just now, AnonymousGuy said:

OEM's my friend.

Why does everyone keep forgetting that DIY builds are a tiny minority of the population?

I don't expect that either.  I see OEM's with SSD boot drives plus a HDD far more than I see SSHD's.

 

An SSD is more performance for less work.

[MageTank]

Oh hey, another thing I told the forum weeks ago that wasn't believed. Batting 2 for 2 here  

[JoostinOnline]

2 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Oh hey, another thing I told the forum guessed weeks ago that wasn't believed. Batting 2 for 2 here  

Fixed it

 

Plenty of people suspected it.  Although I didn't, and I still think it's really bizarre.

[joesmith888]

thats depressing I didnt want to buy a new mobo

[DarkBlade2117]

Was this not obvious?

[MageTank]

Just now, JoostinOnline said:

Fixed it

 

Plenty of people suspected it.  Although I didn't, and I still think it's really bizarre.

I didn't guess it. I knew it for a fact from sources I couldn't disclose, and even explained the exact reason why it wouldn't be compatible. A guess would imply I saw zero evidence to support it, and was just shooting in the dark. I will say, that prior to me knowing that information, I still suspected Coffeelake to not be compatible with Z170 (similar to how Broadwell was incompatible with Z87) but the Z270 incompatibility was a surprise. We knew since October that the socket pin count would be the same at 1151, and it was rumored back then to be a "V2" version, but at the time it made no sense as we didn't have any information on 6 core SKU's or alterations in the memory I/O topology. Now that we know that to be the case, it's obvious that they won't work with one another.

 

This put's Coffeelake in a very difficult position. It's upgrade paths are not as strong as X299, and it's barely offering anything over Z170/270. It's IPC is going to be identical to Skylake/Kaby, and it's literally just bringing 2 additional cores to the table at launch. If someone is in a situation in which they find themselves lacking additional threads, X299 offers far more features for likely a similar price (unless these 6 core SKU's launch at consumer i7 prices).

[Anghammarad]

The need for a new Board every 3rd generation is going on long with intel.

 

First the very first core I somethings (three digit)

 

new board (and maybe bios update)

2nd and 3rd gen Core I

 

new board (and maybe bios update)

4th and 5th gen Core I 

 

new board (and maybe bios update)

6th and 7th gen Core I

 

 

So nothing really is new... I was awaiting the need for a new board for coffee lake. I really would have been flummoxed if this wouldn't be the case. The coffee lake cpus are a new architecture against the 6th and 7th gen. So it makes a new board a logic thing to come.

[Mira Yurizaki]

51 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Also people swap boards out for features. In a year or two type-c might be quite prevalent where you need more type-c ports and you will eventually have to upgrade.

You don't plan for the future. You plan for what you need now. What if in the future Type C isn't as prevalent as you think? Well now you have all these Type C ports you can't use unless it's with a Type C device (USB spec does not allow Type C to anything else for safety reasons)

 

And if you need more Type C ports, you can always get an add-in card or hub.

Edited August 2, 2017 by M.Yurizaki

[mynameisjuan]

3 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

You don't plan for the future. You plan for what you need now. What if in the future Type C isn't as prevalent as you think? Well now you have all these Type C ports you can't use unless it's with a Type C device (USB spec does not allow Type C to anything else for safety reasons)

 

And if you need more Type C ports, you can always get an add-in card or hub.

I didnt say plan for the future. 

 

You supported my argument. I said it MIGHT be prevalent and another board might be needed. Yes there are add-in cards but some features might only be available on a newer motherboard. 

 

People will upgrade ever few years. People who upgrade every year are few and far between, especially over the past few gens with little gain so this whole I need a new mobo WTF argument is just for AMD fans to bash intel when there is not really an issue.

[Mira Yurizaki]

10 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

You supported my argument. I said it MIGHT be prevalent and another board might be needed. Yes there are add-in cards but some features might only be available on a newer motherboard.

Your argument was people swap out boards for features.

 

My argument is people don't swap out boards for features. They add just the feature they need via some other method.

[JoostinOnline]

46 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I didn't guess it. I knew it for a fact from sources I couldn't disclose, and even explained the exact reason why it wouldn't be compatible. A guess would imply I saw zero evidence to support it, and was just shooting in the dark. I will say, that prior to me knowing that information, I still suspected Coffeelake to not be compatible with Z170 (similar to how Broadwell was incompatible with Z87) but the Z270 incompatibility was a surprise. We knew since October that the socket pin count would be the same at 1151, and it was rumored back then to be a "V2" version, but at the time it made no sense as we didn't have any information on 6 core SKU's or alterations in the memory I/O topology. Now that we know that to be the case, it's obvious that they won't work with one another.

 

This put's Coffeelake in a very difficult position. It's upgrade paths are not as strong as X299, and it's barely offering anything over Z170/270. It's IPC is going to be identical to Skylake/Kaby, and it's literally just bringing 2 additional cores to the table at launch. If someone is in a situation in which they find themselves lacking additional threads, X299 offers far more features for likely a similar price (unless these 6 core SKU's launch at consumer i7 prices).

In that case, do you have any idea why they would use the same socket?  Just to make it clear I'd think they'd add an extra pin.  Everything is sorted by socket type, so I imagine lots of incompatible products will be purchased.

[MageTank]

Just now, JoostinOnline said:

In that case, do you have any idea why they would use the same socket?  Just to make it clear I'd think they'd add an extra pin.  Everything is sorted by socket type, so I imagine lots of incompatible products will be purchased.

Honestly, A lot of people (including those that work for Intel) seem a little confused by the move. It's not entirely unheard of though, as we've seen it with socket 2011(V1-V3).

 

I can't really answer why it's the same socket, as I personally do not know (it was just explained that they changed the pinout for improved efficiency for the additional cores and memory I/O). There is slightly more to the chipset than what people currently see, and I can't really share that yet, but it's not as bad as it currently looks (which looks pretty bad). 

[JoostinOnline]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

Honestly, A lot of people (including those that work for Intel) seem a little confused by the move. It's not entirely unheard of though, as we've seen it with socket 2011(V1-V3).

 

I can't really answer why it's the same socket, as I personally do not know (it was just explained that they changed the pinout for improved efficiency for the additional cores and memory I/O). There is slightly more to the chipset than what people currently see, and I can't really share that yet, but it's not as bad as it currently looks (which looks pretty bad). 

I apologize for my earlier remark, I assumed you were just another person who made a ton of random baseless predictions, then bragged about one of them being right.  But any chance you can link to your post?

[MageTank]

Just now, JoostinOnline said:

I apologize for my earlier remark, I assumed you were just another person who made a ton of random baseless predictions, then bragged about one of them being right.  But any chance you can link to your post?

Sure. 

I go on further in the thread with additional posts, but it basically ended with me saying "wait and see" as I completely understand people not believing a random guy with "anonymous sources" as his reasoning. 

[Misanthrope]

2 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Not really.  The end user in the majority of situations is buying a prebuilt.   iGPU, FIVR, and more features on the chipset means a cheaper system because it's lower cost to manufacture.  Consumer wins.

 

We'll see eventually the repercussions for AMD being stuck on the same socket for 4 years.  Maybe no new features, no higher core counts, no faster DDR4.  Who knows.

I take issue with that: yes yet it's only partially true but it should not affect desktop consumer hardware. Consumers that buy AIOs or more likely, laptops, wouldn't need to worry at all and you also wouldn't interfere with the enthusiast and gamer market that while smaller, it is significant and also can carry over both positive and negative impressions onto the other segments.

[goodtofufriday]

5 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Sure. let me know how many new features you are not using in 4 years because they dont exist on your outdated board. Ill be here.

I still have an am3+ board. What exactly am i missing that i NEED to have? 

Besides usb 3, which is still maturing, there hasnt been anything new that i required be to upgrade. New cpu not withstanding

[mr moose]

So the average upgrade cycle for gamers/enthusiasts is 4-5 years. Am4 is 3 years.  So it doesn't matter what color you buy right now, by the time most are ready to upgrade they will need to buy a new mobo anyway.  I really dont know why people are making such a big deal about this.  

[PocketNerd]

Might as well use a new socket, then. So you don't create customer confusion.

[vanished]

Not at all surprising, but also disappointing.  Intel is used to being able to sit back and just wait for people to buy their stuff because, well, what else would they buy?  Except now there actually is another viable option for the first time in years, so they should be doing everything in their power to leverage and maintain their existing market share.  The way to do that would be to make new CPUs work on existing platforms.  By choosing to not do that, they force anyone upgrading to get a new system regardless, and if they're gonna upgrade anyway, well, hm, might just go Ryzen then...