Do you/can you drive a manual?

[poochyena]

My first car was manual and I hated it with a passion, and was so happy when I sold it to get an automatic car. Literally don't understand why people like manual shift cars. 0 advantage.

[kokakolia]

4 hours ago, poochyena said:

My first car was manual and I hated it with a passion, and was so happy when I sold it to get an automatic car. Literally don't understand why people like manual shift cars. 0 advantage.

PREACH!!!

[Donut417]

My sister is 4 years older than me. When she did drivers training she learned on a stick, when I got the chance to do drivers training they did all automatics. I have had a basic lesson, but I couldnt drive a stick cofidently. Id stall the car or grind some gears. 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

17 hours ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

All my female friends can drive sticks (of course, most of us are senior citzens).

 

12 hours ago, amdorintel said:

all women can drive stick

Not all women will drive that kind of a stick. Some of us prefer higher quality. 

[Real_PhillBert]

I've never owned anything but manual transmissions, and have taught just about every girlfriend I've ever had how to drive them. They've all been more interested in learning than my male friends who are uninterested in cars. 

[JohnMcL7]

I'm in the UK so only ever owned manual cars and the only autos I've driven are the occasional hire cars where I couldn't get a manual.  

 

There is quite a shift here though and it's getting more difficult to get a manual, two of the three cars I'm looking at to replace the current one are auto only and the third one is 50/50 on manuals/autos.  Which is frustrating as I have no need or want of an automatic so I don't want to pay the premium for them and as I buy second hand, I don't want the complexity either but it looks like I'm not going to have a choice.

[Commodus]

I can drive a manual, but I don't really like it.  It doesn't help that I first learned with a Geo Metro (yeah, that was traumatic), but even the fairly forgiving manual on my mom's then-current Jetta wasn't a fun experience several years ago.

 

I get that some drivers find pleasure in rowing the gears, but I don't think we should really celebrate that as some kind of advantage as the 2010s come to a close.  Automatics are increasingly faster than stick and with comparable (sometimes better) fuel economy.  When you're commuting, automatic reduces stress levels.  And of course, the inevitable dominance of EVs will make learning manual obsolete... you'll have to learn to go without it in the next decade or so, so why not start now?

[JohnMcL7]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

I can drive a manual, but I don't really like it.  It doesn't help that I first learned with a Geo Metro (yeah, that was traumatic), but even the fairly forgiving manual on my mom's then-current Jetta wasn't a fun experience several years ago.

 

I get that some drivers find pleasure in rowing the gears, but I don't think we should really celebrate that as some kind of advantage as the 2010s come to a close.  Automatics are increasingly faster than stick and with comparable (sometimes better) fuel economy.  When you're commuting, automatic reduces stress levels.  And of course, the inevitable dominance of EVs will make learning manual obsolete... you'll have to learn to go without it in the next decade or so, so why not start now?

I don't do much city driving nor high performance driving so there's little advantage with an automatic for my use but there's lots of disadvantages, initial costs are higher, servicing is more expensive and the modern autos like the VW DSG are highly complex so any problems can be expensive.  I'm not saying they're all going to fail but why have that worry when I don't want or need an auto, similarly I drive a non-turbo petrol after having fun with overly complex modern diesels as I don't do the miles to justify that hassle.

 

I can easily see the benefits for automatics for some use but I find it puzzling the number of people that are able to complete ignore that there are disadvantages to automatics.

[Commodus]

3 minutes ago, JohnMcL7 said:

I don't do much city driving nor high performance driving so there's little advantage with an automatic for my use but there's lots of disadvantages, initial costs are higher, servicing is more expensive and the modern autos like the VW DSG are highly complex so any problems can be expensive.  I'm not saying they're all going to fail but why have that worry when I don't want or need an auto, similarly I drive a non-turbo petrol after having fun with overly complex modern diesels as I don't do the miles to justify that hassle.

 

I can easily see the benefits for automatics for some use but I find it puzzling the number of people that are able to complete ignore that there are disadvantages to automatics.

It's not so much that there are disadvantages in that the advantages are frequently more appealing.  And the disadvantages are shrinking, too.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, JohnMcL7 said:

I find it puzzling the number of people that are able to complete ignore that there are disadvantages to automatics.

Because in the past 2 decades or so, those disadvantages have decreased to be either insignificant or nonexistant.

Reliability isn't an issue. The scale at which automatics are used means that parts (and full units) are relatively cheap where autos are common (Economy of scale). Complexity =/= less reliable or harder to fix.

[JohnMcL7]

34 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Because in the past 2 decades or so, those disadvantages have decreased to be either insignificant or nonexistant.

Reliability isn't an issue. The scale at which automatics are used means that parts (and full units) are relatively cheap where autos are common (Economy of scale). Complexity =/= less reliable or harder to fix.

That's just not the reality though.  Automatics are more expensive to purchase (around £1500 for a DSG over a manual), that is just a fact and economies of scale don't help a complex device with high labour costs, just look up VW DSG mechatronics failure to understand that better.  The more than can go wrong means more potential failure points especially in modern cars where the failure of a single sensor is enough to cripple them, again going back to DSG boxes (which I'm most familiar with) the temperature sensors can be critical and enough to cripple the car when misbehaving. 

 

I used to be a big diesel fan until I had a Euro IV diesel which required a more complex EGR system and necessitated a DPF.  I was very careful to avoid short distances with it to ensure it could build up enough temperature to regenerate but the night before a 1,000 mile trip one of the four sensors on the intake/outtake of the DPF system failed and since the car could no longer measure the flow to the DPF and put the car into limp home mode which meant a hire car.  So I drive a manual petrol car with no turbo, no DPF, no SCR, no DMF and no EGR, sure the car isn't quite as efficient as some others but it's a reasonable trade off for the higher reliability given I buy second hand and hold onto the car for a while.  

 

Of course you could then argue that a torque converter auto would be a better choice but then you still have the cost disadvantage as well as performance, weight and fuel efficiency disadvantages.

 

Hence choice is good, I weigh all the pro's and cons (and don't just ignore all the cons of technologies I like) and for now a manual is by far the best choice for my use.  An automatic would be more expensive and potentially less reliable with no benefit given the bulk of my car's time it's just cruising in 6th hence it's frustrating the increasing number of normal cars no longer offering a manual.  I don't really see the point in trying to pretend there are no disadvantages to automatics or simply not being aware of them but each to their own I guess.

[Drak3]

10 minutes ago, JohnMcL7 said:

That's just not the reality though

It is for modern automatics. They've been refined to the point that the tranny is as likely to last the vehicle's lifetime as a manual, assuming neither are being abused. IF abused, the automatic will handle it better, it doesn't have the user trying to force gears.

They're manufactured in such a quantity that assembly has been streamlined and cheapened and they don't take more resources than a modern manual. The actual design also isn't all that complex when next to a competent manual design either.

16 minutes ago, JohnMcL7 said:

in modern cars where the failure of a single sensor is enough to cripple them, again going back to DSG boxes (which I'm most familiar with) the temperature sensors can be critical and enough to cripple the car when misbehaving. 

Chief, two things:

1. Modern manuals have the same sensors as well.
2. Most vehicles limit power when sensors trigger, to strike a balance between being usable and not killing themselves. A bad sensor won't cripple a vehicle made in the past decade or two.

 

Your opinion is based upon long outdated information.

[Ithanul]

On 11/7/2019 at 3:14 PM, handymanshandle said:

My dad can drive stick fairly competently but he’d rather not. He had a 90s Accord and a 1998 Tacoma that were stick that he never really drove because of it.

My Dad is the same way.  He can drive stick (has an old 1500 4x4 Chevy), but he prefers driving my NISMO Frontier automatic.  

 

Interestingly enough, Ford built a EV Mustang that has a manual stick with a six speed in it.

I'm still hunting around for info on technical details of that.  As I am interested on how that is all hooked up.