Microsoft hides option to use Windows 10 with a local account - GDPR violation?

[Delicieuxz]

Confirmed: Windows 10 Setup Now Prevents Local Account Creation

Quote

Windows 10 Home now forces you to sign in with a Microsoft account—unless you disconnect from the internet first. Microsoft has always wanted you to sign in with a Microsoft account, but now it’s going even further.

 

The option to sign in with a classic local Windows account was always rather hidden behind an “Offline Account” option. Now, we’ve confirmed that it’s vanished entirely from Windows 10’s setup process.

 

The screenshots in this article were taken while installing Windows 10 version 1903 Home—that’s the current stable version of Windows 10, also known as the May 2019 Update.

 

During the first-time setup process—either after you install Windows 10 yourself or while setting up a new PC with Windows 10—you’re now prompted to “Sign in with Microsoft” and there are no alternate options.

 

On Windows 10 Professional, there’s reportedly a “Domain Join Instead” option that will create a local user account. But that’s only on Windows 10 Professional. Windows 10 Home doesn’t have this option at all.

 

...

 

How to Create a Local User Account Instead

Thankfully, there is one hidden way around this process on Windows 10 Home: You can disconnect your computer from the network.

 

If you have a computer with an Ethernet cable, unplug it. If you’re connected to Wi-Fi, disconnect.

 

After you do, try creating a Microsoft account and you’ll see a “Something went wrong” error message. You can then click “Skip” to skip the Microsoft account creation process.

 

Once you’ve skipped the Microsoft account creation, the old “Who’s going to use this PC?” screen will appear. You can now create an offline account and sign in to Windows 10 without a Microsoft account—the option was there all along.

 

...

 

Perhaps a future version of Windows 10 will refuse to allow account creation until you’re connected to the internet. “After all,” Microsoft might say, “Telemetry shows most people just create Microsoft accounts.”

 

This is yet another dark pattern from the company that brought us “Upgrade now or upgrade tonight” during Windows 10’s free upgrade period.

 

It seems that dirty data-stealing Microsoft is up to more of their unscrupulous trickery.

 

There are privacy and security concerns when using Microsoft account. The amount of data that Microsoft harvests from Windows 10 owners is a lot more when they use a Microsoft account as opposed to a normal local account, and the data that Microsoft harvests from people using Windows 10 with a Microsoft account is tagged with a lot more personal identifiers.

 

There are no significant advantages to using a Microsoft account instead of a local / offline Windows 10 account. All the Microsoft account does is result in a person being always automatically logged-in to all the Microsoft services offered through Windows 10 - whether a person wants that or not. With a local / offline account, a person can still do that by simply logging into those services once and then never logging out of them. The difference with a local / offline account is that people can choose whether to be logged into them and even while logged into them will have Microsoft spying on them and selling their personal information a lot less than people who use Microsoft accounts.

 

Saving a few seconds worth of logging-in time that needs to be done just once after a new Windows 10 installation by giving up a large amount of privacy and allowing Microsoft to perpetually spy on you much more intensely isn't a favourable deal for you. In fact, it's a deal where it's entirely a disadvantageous situation for Windows 10 owners, while Microsoft profits itself by selling more information about everybody.

 

"Dark pattern" (AKA conniving, deceptive, manipulative) designs should be criminalized and punishable under law as being a part of the same thing as false advertising.

 

 

What Microsoft is doing sounds to me like it would be a violation of GDPR, and also California's upcoming CCPA rules that come into force January 1st 2020, which require options involving data harvesting to be transparent and clear. Microsoft's effort to force people to use a Microsoft account instead of a local / offline Windows account is entirely about harvesting more data from people, and it means that people are being forced into giving more of their personal data to Microsoft, through deceptive and misleading messaging.

 

If people in the EU are unhappy about this move by Microsoft, maybe contacting your national Data Protection Agency / GDPR office and reporting Microsoft's behaviour is a good idea.

[Likwid]

Was really suprised when this happened to me yesterday, thought I missclicked something, but yea, this sucks because my friends microsoft autentification didn't send sms or call, so I had to login with my account

[Delicieuxz]

5 minutes ago, Likwid said:

Was really suprised when this happened to me yesterday, thought I missclicked something, but yea, this sucks because my friends microsoft autentification didn't send sms or call, so I had to login with my account

 

You can get around it by unplugging your ethernet cable before installing Windows 10, or by unplugging it when at the account screen and then letting the process fail to find or make the new account due to lack of an internet connection. Then it will let a person make a normal local / offline account.

[Likwid]

2 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

 

You can get around it by unplugging your ethernet cable before installing Windows 10, or by unplugging it when at the account screen and then letting the process fail to find or make the new account due to lack of an internet connection. Then it will let a person make a normal local / offline account.

Well this wouldn't be a problem if autentification woukd work, but will definetly use this on my pc when I will build it after a week or so

[LAwLz]

In before the usual people who defend this type of behavior from Microsoft just goes "you just have to unplug your computer from the Internet and then create the local account. We should all lick Microsoft's shoes because they are so kind to continue to give us a way to use local accounts!".

[ckinfos]

The problem is that although there is the MacOS and linux alternatives, MS is dominating a long time the market and brands stick with it too. The problem is not MS spying activities or disabling some of their options.

The problem is that :

1. Macs are too expensive so alot of people cant buy them so they cant use the MacOS (which it has its flaws too)

2. Linux have so many branches and have YET a non-terminal everyday usage for many tasks (that means the user HAS to do everyday tasks the hard way, even install programs)

3. Game companies dont like LINUX...ING! Even though Steam, Google, lutris and so is trying to change that but still due to the fact 2 there are unpassable problems.

 

So i think we have to live with what the monopoly....goes us too.

 

 

[Master Disaster]

My tablet died on me last week so i bought a fairly cheap laptop to replace it (£360) which arrived yesterday. Literally the first thing I did was to install Ubuntu.

 

Unfortunately it looks as though I'm gonna have to go back to Windows as it turns out Linux has no support for the WiFi card and even though a third party driver exists it really sucks.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Apparently the next version will not be available for download anymore.  A Microsoft employee will come over with a USB stick and guide you through the install.

 

I managed to get a photo of that, courtesy of a friend who's in the Windows Insider program.

Spoiler

 

[TheVillageIdiot]

7 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Apparently the next version will not be available for download anymore.  A Microsoft employee will come over with a USB stick and guide you through the install.

 

I managed to get a photo of that, courtesy of a friend who's in the Windows Insider program.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I got into an fight over this for pointing this issue out a few months ago. I am still the asshole......and laughing my ass off.

[TheVillageIdiot]

Let me point out the work around is simple. Shut off your network during install.

When I ran into it the first time all you had to do is fail out of the account login and move on. So they put some effort into fixing that workaround :)~

 

[WereCatf]

18 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Unfortunately it looks as though I'm gonna have to go back to Windows as it turns out Linux has no support for the WiFi card and even though a third party driver exists it really sucks.

You can most likely just replace the WiFi-card with another one, they're not expensive. E.g. the Intel WiFi-card I've got is well supported and works fine (though I'll have to check the exact model in a bit. I'm waiting for a delivery atm)

[Arika]

Installed a fresh copy of Windows like 2 weeks ago and had the option for a local account. 

 

Don't remember if I set up the network though. 

 

If this is the case, what the fuck. 

 

However I'm sure they found a loophole about how they still show you everything being collected. 

 

With that said, are the privacy options during set up different for a Ms account vs a local account? Don't think I've ever set up an MS account. Would google get pinged for the same thing with Android Or apple requiring an icloud account to use iphone/ipad?

[TheVillageIdiot]

To be honest.......at the time it seemed more a bug than something on purpose. Now it has resurfaced.

[Master Disaster]

41 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

You can most likely just replace the WiFi-card with another one, they're not expensive. E.g. the Intel WiFi-card I've got is well supported and works fine (though I'll have to check the exact model in a bit. I'm waiting for a delivery atm)

Did some digging and I found the official service guide (turns out HP are actually really good at providing service guides and spares to the public), it appears as though 3 WiFi cards are compatible, 2 Realtek (which is the issue) and 1 Intel.

 

HPs official parts shop want £33 for the WiFi card, hit eBay and picked one up for £8 including postage. Its the Intel AC3168 which supports 802.11AC. The one I have now only supports 802.11N.

 

I'm literally sat less than 1 metre away from my Router and it has half strength and struggles to stream a vid from YT at 720p. It doesn't pick up any other networks apart from mine whilst my phone lists over 10. I'm 99% sure its driver related because I ran through Windows setup when I turned it on for the first time and it found loads of different networks.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, ckinfos said:

2. Linux have so many branches and have YET a non-terminal everyday usage for many tasks (that means the user HAS to do everyday tasks the hard way, even install programs)

This is not true. It's entirely possible to install a distro like Ubuntu and do "everyday tasks" without having to use the terminal once.

It just depends on what your definition of "everyday tasks" is. Most people I know would not need the terminal because they do little more than web browsing and use an office suite.

 

 

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

With that said, are the privacy options during set up different for a Ms account vs a local account? Don't think I've ever set up an MS account. Would google get pinged for the same thing with Android Or apple requiring an icloud account to use iphone/ipad?

I don't think they are any different, other than some functionality being disabled (by default) if you don't use a Microsoft account such as clipboard syncing.

Not sure what you mean with the last part but I assume it's "why are people critizing Microsoft for this? Would you say the same thing if Google made it mandatory for Android" and I think the answer to that is yes. I would not be pleased if Google all of a sudden started requiring an online account to use your phone.

But there is a big difference here. We have never really had good privacy and options on our phones. If you get a smartphone it's kind of understood that it will suck in terms of options and privacy (at least with Android). However, we are used to it being decent on PCs.

I think it's a bigger blow (and news) when one sector goes backwards and makes a product worse (if you think dark patterns is a step back, which I think it is) by limiting options and choice. Going from decent to bad is a bigger punch than going from bad to slightly more bad.

[ckinfos]

Just now, LAwLz said:

This is not true. It's entirely possible to install a distro like Ubuntu and do "everyday tasks" without having to use the terminal once.

It just depends on what your definition of "everyday tasks" is. Most people I know would not need the terminal because they do little more than web browsing and use an office suite.

 

 

I don't think they are any different, other than some functionality being disabled (by default) if you don't use a Microsoft account such as clipboard syncing.

Not sure what you mean with the last part but I assume it's "why are people critizing Microsoft for this? Would you say the same thing if Google made it mandatory for Android" and I think the answer to that is yes. I would not be pleased if Google all of a sudden started requiring an online account to use your phone.

But there is a big difference here. We have never really had good privacy and options on our phones. If you get a smartphone it's kind of understood that it will suck in terms of options and privacy (at least with Android). However, we are used to it being decent on PCs.

I think it's a bigger blow (and news) when one sector goes backwards and makes a product worse (if you think dark patterns is a step back, which I think it is) by limiting options and choice. Going from decent to bad is a bigger punch than going from bad to slightly more bad.

i have ubuntu and manjaro....please can you tell me how to install skype/teamviewer from the repos? and with that i mean...in windows you download and install. In linux...you do ...1 or more extra steps.

 

A lot of Universities also push the MS OS and tools so it is very difficult for not to follow that stream.

Unless a Big company interfere (like google with android) in linux development as in the past years with Unix and Novell the windows will always dominate.

They had removed the start menu...but we are all happy with the new one and we tolerate it. they are pushing updates without beeing able to deny them we tolerate, they made this with the logon we tolerate, years they had IE in the OS messing things we tolerated.

Things in a circle for me ....discussing them is just for the discussion IMO and only.

[WereCatf]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

HPs official parts shop want £33 for the WiFi card, hit eBay and picked one up for £8 including postage. Its the Intel AC3168 which supports 802.11AC.

Yeah, those Intel-ones are perfectly serviceable and you and your Linux-install will most likely be quite happy with it

[LAwLz]

41 minutes ago, ckinfos said:

i have ubuntu and manjaro....please can you tell me how to install skype/teamviewer from the repos?

I would say that most people do not count Skype and Teamviewer as their everyday tasks.

 

But here is how to do it in Windows.

1) Open the Microsoft Store

2) Search for Skype

3) Click on Skype

4) Click "Install".

 

On Ubuntu it's:

1) Open "Ubuntu Software"

2) Search for Skype

3) Click on Skype

4) Click "Install"

 

Wow it's so much different, right!?

Geez... GNU/Linux sure is sooo much more complicated than Windows. (sarcasm).

 

 

Here is how to install Teamviewer on Windows:
1) Go to teamviewer.com in your browser.

2) Download the installer (or choose run to skip step 3).

3) Double click on the installer.

4) Run the installation wizard, mostly clicking next and avoiding to install some unwanted bundleware.

 

Here is how to install Teamviewer on Ubuntu:

1) Go to teamviewer.com in your browser.

2) Download the installer (or choose run to skip step 3).

3) Double click the installer.

4) Click "Install" when Ubuntu Software has popped up asking if you want to install Teamviewer.

 

WOW, it's so much more difficult you guys!!!

 

 

59 minutes ago, ckinfos said:

and with that i mean...in windows you download and install. In linux...you do ...1 or more extra steps.

What extra step(s) did I do with the GNU/Linux instructions?

 

 

59 minutes ago, ckinfos said:

A lot of Universities also push the MS OS and tools so it is very difficult for not to follow that stream.

Now you're moving the goalpost. Your original argument was that GNU/Linux required the terminal to use for everyday tasks. That is not true.

Now you're arguing that some university might ask you to use Word or whatever, which is a completely separate argument, one that I might not even agree with. I guess it depends on which class you took, but for my networking education we were actually pushed to use GNU/Linux quite a bit but most stuff was OS agnostic. The only requirements were that things like essays and reports were submitted as PDFs. In fact, we were not allowed to submit things as something else such as word documents. I would be surprised if it was different at other schools.

[Eniqmatic]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

I would say that most people do not count Skype and Teamviewer as their everyday tasks.

 

But here is how to do it in Windows.

1) Open the Microsoft Store

2) Search for Skype

3) Click on Skype

4) Click "Install".

 

On Ubuntu it's:

1) Open "Ubuntu Software"

2) Search for Skype

3) Click on Skype

4) Click "Install"

 

Wow it's so much different, right!?

Geez... GNU/Linux sure is sooo much more complicated than Windows. (sarcasm).

 

 

Here is how to install Teamviewer on Windows:
1) Go to teamviewer.com in your browser.

2) Download the installer (or choose run to skip step 3).

3) Double click on the installer.

4) Run the installation wizard, mostly clicking next and avoiding to install some unwanted bundleware.

 

Here is how to install Teamviewer on Ubuntu:

1) Go to teamviewer.com in your browser.

2) Download the installer (or choose run to skip step 3).

3) Double click the installer.

4) Click "Install" when Ubuntu Software has popped up asking if you want to install Teamviewer.

 

WOW, it's so much more difficult you guys!!!

 

 

What extra step(s) did I do with the GNU/Linux instructions?

 

 

Now you're moving the goalpost. Your original argument was that GNU/Linux required the terminal to use for everyday tasks. That is not true.

Now you're arguing that some university might ask you to use Word or whatever, which is a completely separate argument, one that I might not even agree with. I guess it depends on which class you took, but for my networking education we were actually pushed to use GNU/Linux quite a bit but most stuff was OS agnostic. The only requirements were that things like essays and reports were submitted as PDFs. In fact, we were not allowed to submit things as something else such as word documents. I would be surprised if it was different at other schools.

I was literally replying with this, arguably skype is actually easier to install under Ubuntu 

[xAcid9]

This is not old news? 

 

1 hour ago, ckinfos said:

manjaro....please can you tell me how to install skype/teamviewer from the repos?

enable AUR support from Package Manager preference. Search Skype/Teamviewer and click build. 

[paddy-stone]

Just an FYI, but anyone concerned about their privacy when using windows and what data they collect, can try This - Not sure how effective it is, but better than nothing.

 

[edit] Just noticed this

Quote

Supports all Windows 10 versions up to 1903

So guess they'll have a new version roll out soon for users on 1903.

[Doobeedoo]

I don't install Home version but yeah lame really. Hopefullychanged for new major release heh which is soon. 

[spartaman64]

5 hours ago, ckinfos said:

 

2. Linux have so many branches and have YET a non-terminal everyday usage for many tasks (that means the user HAS to do everyday tasks the hard way, even install programs)

 

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

 

and i dont understand why installing with the terminal is considered hard. most people can memorize 3 words

[vorticalbox]

30 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

 

and i dont understand why installing with the terminal is considered hard. most people can memorize 3 words

in ubuntu based OSs you can just download a deb and double click it to install just like downloading an .exe

[Crowbar]

Another day, another windows 10 controversy...

 

Won't be long until a credit card is required for install by non OEM's at this rate.