Microsoft hides option to use Windows 10 with a local account - GDPR violation?

[Jito463]

1 hour ago, 2DollaKoala said:

You're absolutely right. I guess it's been a long time since I helped someone without an Apple ID. Sorry about that. macOS wins again!

Of course, the caveat is that you can only download it from an Apple computer, so you have to buy their overpriced hardware in the first place.

[Tribalinius]

6 hours ago, Jito463 said:

The thing is, even with 1809 on a USB flash drive (made well before this began), we've seen it happen.  I believe it occurs when Windows updates itself, prior to asking you for your login credentials.  In such an event, it makes no difference when the ISO was made, it only matters whether or not you connect to the internet at that phase of the install.

Eh, I never noticed that / paid enough attention before, but it makes total sense since it's already hooked up to the network. Good to know though. I don't do fresh installs a lot anymore, apparently I'm paid too much to not let people under me take care of that .

[SpaceGhostC2C]

12 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Because some of us don’t buy grey market keys. Windows home is like $119 and pro is like $199.

That's just less of a reason to buy Window, though (Home or otherwise).

 

It's different in laptops, where you seldom get to choose whether a certain computer comes with or without a Windows licence, or which type.

[Donut417]

24 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

That's just less of a reason to buy Window, though (Home or otherwise).

 

It's different in laptops, where you seldom get to choose whether a certain computer comes with or without a Windows licence, or which type.

But using unactivated Windows is a pain as certian settings are not aviable. Plus you have Microsoft begging you to buy a copy. Its kinda like when I paid for Avast and they kept trying to get me to by a VPN or other services. Thats why people pay. So they are not hassled. No way in hell im paying $199 for a broken ass OS. Seeing how Home and Pro are the only LEGAL ones we consumers can buy, it kinda leaves you in a bad place. Which is why I now use Ubutntu and I pretty much had to give up on PC gaming. Though some of my Steam Library still works, but Im just going to invest in my Nintedo Swtich and possibly if I want more hard core, I might look in to an Xbox. 

[jagdtigger]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

and I pretty much had to give up on PC gamin

Well with proton you might be able to pick it up again...

[JustWantTech]

4 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Well with proton you might be able to pick it up again...

Not all games are available in steam or at least work with proton though. In the end, you had to do more work for those games. 

[DeScruff]

I knew I wasn't crazy.
I recently got a new laptop, only to find during the setup I couldn't find a local account. I think I had to actually power down my Wifi network because it remembered and reconnected when I restarted the computer.
That was obnoxious, because other people were home and were trying to do things on the internet.

EDIT: Oh yeah side note... The version I installed was not Win10 Home.
And I can quickly confirm this also happens on LTSC.

EDIT2: Im probably remembering wrong. I am probably remembering booting the install that came with the machine, before upgrading the SSD and Installing Windows. But I know at the time I found it annoying.

[jagdtigger]

4 hours ago, JustWantTech said:

Not all games are available in steam or at least work with proton though. In the end, you had to do more work for those games. 

And if i were to use this junk i would have to do way more work just to make it somewhat usable. And even then its totally unreliable. On the other hand  if i use Ubuntu LTS i only need to set it up once then it stays that way for 4 years. Plus i have the /home on a different partition so i can reinstall any time and i can still keep most of the settings....

[Jito463]

7 hours ago, Sypran said:

EDIT: Oh yeah side note... The version I installed was not Win10 Home.
And I can quickly confirm this also happens on LTSC.

That doesn't make sense, because that's essentially a ramped up Pro (Enterprise), and Pro definitely still gives the option for a local login even when connected to the internet.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

inb4 barnacles makes a video about this. 

[pas008]

On 10/4/2019 at 8:04 AM, Sauron said:

Grey market keys are piracy. If you're going to pirate it at least don't pay.

Oh really cause you say?

 

I know using vpns and purchasing keys from legit sources in other countries can be huge money makers

 

Example  venezuelan Microsoft allowed you to buy windows and other ms products for pennies

Think i got 7 back thorn for less than 20

I shouldn't be able to resell those keys? Lol

[justpoet]

MS, doing their best to make people hate Windows more all the time.

Unfortunately, Linux still refuses to ACTUALLY become easy to use for the masses, just claiming that it already is when it isn't.  So the majority of people don't have a viable option to switch right now unless they want to spend a bunch and buy a Mac.

 

Windows proving it is still a huge monopoly with all of this crap and forced updates that are horribly broken.

[jagdtigger]

23 minutes ago, justpoet said:

, just claiming that it already is when it isn't

In many ways it is. This was debated several times, and for what your r=1 user uses(web browser and maybe a media player) its already there. With valve developing proton hopefully games follow suit soon. (And no, you still do not need the terminal.)

[justpoet]

3 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

In many ways it is. This was debated several times, and for what your r=1 user uses(web browser and maybe a media player) its already there. With valve developing proton hopefully games follow suit soon. (And no, you still do not need the terminal.)

No, it isn't.  It works, and isn't horrible once set up and installed, provided they don't try to change anything.

It isn't, however, even close to working out of the box for most people without a huge learning curve, even for basic things like web browsing and e-mail.

[Donut417]

33 minutes ago, justpoet said:

MS, doing their best to make people hate Windows more all the time.

Unfortunately, Linux still refuses to ACTUALLY become easy to use for the masses, just claiming that it already is when it isn't.  So the majority of people don't have a viable option to switch right now unless they want to spend a bunch and buy a Mac.

 

Windows proving it is still a huge monopoly with all of this crap and forced updates that are horribly broken.

They are trying to copy Apple and Google. Apple and Google didnt make just products, they built an ecosystem of products and services. Microsoft had its head shoved so far up its ass at the time they ended up missing the boat. As a result they are trying to build something simular. Also, they are trying to pull an Apple by haivng a rolling release OS. The issue is they do a shit job with quality control, as pointed out by Barnecules in one of his videos. 

[jagdtigger]

21 minutes ago, justpoet said:

No, it isn't.  It works, and isn't horrible once set up and installed, provided they don't try to change anything.

It isn't, however, even close to working out of the box for most people without a huge learning curve, even for basic things like web browsing and e-mail.

 Linux Mint and even Ubuntu is pretty easy to install, changing settings even easier. Im getting the feeling that you, and the others who say linux isnt ready never(or very long ago) used linux in the first place........ (On the other hand linux is my daily driver, to top it off i like to jump around between ubuntu variants and Linux Mint. In my experience Linux Mint is a very good choice for beginners. Or Kubuntu if you have a beefier PC.)

[pas008]

34 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

They are trying to copy Apple and Google. Apple and Google didnt make just products, they built an ecosystem of products and services. Microsoft had its head shoved so far up its ass at the time they ended up missing the boat. As a result they are trying to build something simular. Also, they are trying to pull an Apple by haivng a rolling release OS. The issue is they do a shit job with quality control, as pointed out by Barnecules in one of his videos. 

They made a eco system long before them

Windows lol

That's without micro transactions 

And where is ms on the list?

 

And shit job? Lol

They deal with software variables on top of hardware variables plus that Apple and/or anyone else doesn't even come close coming close to to doing a 10th of

 

 

[justpoet]

46 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

 Linux Mint and even Ubuntu is pretty easy to install, changing settings even easier. Im getting the feeling that you, and the others who say linux isnt ready never(or very long ago) used linux in the first place........ (On the other hand linux is my daily driver, to top it off i like to jump around between ubuntu variants and Linux Mint. In my experience Linux Mint is a very good choice for beginners. Or Kubuntu if you have a beefier PC.)

I built a linux system about a month ago with new hardware (though nothing bleeding edge, so as to avoid those issues).  It installed great and fast (latest ubuntu LTS Desktop).  Finding anything on it, despite having used linux a couple years prior on a daily basis was still a pain.  Then it stopped allowing installs because of a single app package install borked the entire installer, and broke other things too because of subsequent failed installs of system patches, requiring a bunch of debugging and config file editing and terminal work in order to make things work mostly correctly again.

 

AKA, it just isn't ready.  Being easy to use for a linux user is very different than being easy to use for the masses.  Current linux is the former, but definitely not the later, even though I love the concept and generally like using linux overall.

 

[justpoet]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

They are trying to copy Apple and Google. Apple and Google didnt make just products, they built an ecosystem of products and services. Microsoft had its head shoved so far up its ass at the time they ended up missing the boat. As a result they are trying to build something simular. Also, they are trying to pull an Apple by haivng a rolling release OS. The issue is they do a shit job with quality control, as pointed out by Barnecules in one of his videos. 

Having an ecosystem is much different than forcing cloud only and full system data collection.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

They are trying to copy Apple and Google. Apple and Google didnt make just products, they built an ecosystem of products and services. Microsoft had its head shoved so far up its ass at the time they ended up missing the boat. As a result they are trying to build something simular. Also, they are trying to pull an Apple by haivng a rolling release OS. The issue is they do a shit job with quality control, as pointed out by Barnecules in one of his videos. 

 

Windows can't really ever be like ios or android in that its status as a monopoly OS means tying users to an account or ecosystem in an anti consumer way is illegal.   MS cannot push windows in the same direction (whether they want to or not).    Also as much as I enjoyed barnecules earlier stuff, I have trouble taking any ex employees word for anything.  especially when it is negative or flies in the face of general trends.  

[Sauron]

3 hours ago, pas008 said:

Oh really cause you say?

Because Microsoft isn't making any money from it and the keys can only be cheaper of they're stolen or from a different region.

3 hours ago, pas008 said:

I know using vpns and purchasing keys from legit sources in other countries can be huge money makers

It's also illegal and effectively piracy.

3 hours ago, pas008 said:

I shouldn't be able to resell those keys? Lol

I don't care what you do, I'm saying that if you're going to use an illegal key anyway then paying for it is quite silly.

[pas008]

21 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Because Microsoft isn't making any money from it and the keys can only be cheaper of they're stolen or from a different region.

It's also illegal and effectively piracy.

I don't care what you do, I'm saying that if you're going to use an illegal key anyway then paying for it is quite silly.

Using vpn you purchase goods In another country is illegal ?

 

So Microsoft didn't make like 20 bucks from me? Lol

And the many others that purchased them too?

[Sauron]

23 minutes ago, pas008 said:

Using vpn you purchase goods In another country is illegal ?

Reselling them definitely is if the prices were region locked.

24 minutes ago, pas008 said:

So Microsoft didn't make like 20 bucks from me? Lol

And the many others that purchased them too?

You're profiting from prices that were designed to meet the needs of an impoverished population, which frankly is a bit disgusting, and Microsoft made significantly less money for a license than they would have had you gone through proper means; Microsoft also makes exactly nothing from the resale, which goes to compete with legitimate stores that have distribution deals with Microsoft, undercutting the profits of both.

 

I have little respect for Microsoft, but honestly paying a blood sucking middle man that did nothing to earn said money, pays none of the taxes a storefront would and leeches off of an effort to make a product more affordable for people who couldn't buy it otherwise irks me. Since it's illegal anyway I'd say piracy gets the moral high ground here and I have no doubt Microsoft would agree.

 

Furthermore, you have no way of knowing if the key was smuggled like you suggested or straight up stolen, which has been shown multiple times to actually hurt the developer's bottom line a lot more than piracy. Some developers have even come out and said explicitly that they'd rather have you pirate their product than buy it from a key reseller.

[TheVillageIdiot]

How about oem actually returning to no bloatware  ?

[pas008]

12 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Reselling them definitely is if the prices were region locked.

You're profiting from prices that were designed to meet the needs of an impoverished population, which frankly is a bit disgusting, and Microsoft made significantly less money for a license than they would have had you gone through proper means; Microsoft also makes exactly nothing from the resale, which goes to compete with legitimate stores that have distribution deals with Microsoft, undercutting the profits of both.

 

I have little respect for Microsoft, but honestly paying a blood sucking middle man that did nothing to earn said money, pays none of the taxes a storefront would and leeches off of an effort to make a product more affordable for people who couldn't buy it otherwise irks me. Since it's illegal anyway I'd say piracy gets the moral high ground here and I have no doubt Microsoft would agree.

 

Furthermore, you have no way of knowing if the key was smuggled like you suggested or straight up stolen, which has been shown multiple times to actually hurt the developer's bottom line a lot more than piracy. Some developers have even come out and said explicitly that they'd rather have you pirate their product than buy it from a key reseller.

oh but many countries are changing their stance on digital goods like steam and French court decision

 

Soon many more to follow