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Are nuclear powered aircraft viable?

Colt_0pz
By Colt_0pz
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Posted
5 minutes ago, Raskolnikov said:

Aircraft don't really need extreme energy independence, especially in this day and age with air refueling.  

 

Regardless of the safety aspect, wouldn't this also massively jack up the price of jets?

If you can get rid of the need to re-fuel mid-flight, that would ease your logistical pressure even more and eliminate interruptions if you have to go out of the operating zone to refuel.

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16 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

the US also tried it, but i believe it was in a B52 bomber, not entirely shure.

B-36. 

 

to OP, nope the shielding needed is to much. 

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Posted

Building such a plane would be expensive. But you know what what would be even more expensive ? Dealing with decommissioning of said nuclear aircraft at the end of their shelf life. The US navy just started to de-mantle the USS enterprise ( a nuclear aircraft carrier ) and the bill for that isn't going to be pretty.

 

Plus , you need to consider the issue of national safety and proliferation. You're going to be building thousands of small nuclear reactors. Planes are going to fly internationally, even if you decide to only sell to a US market (which would be financially dubious), meaning nuclear tech and fuel could land in the hands of undesirables ( totalitarian governments , terrorist groups etc).

 

And to state the obvious : nuclear power already has a bad rap , deservedly so or not. Try convincing people to fly next to a reactor. No amount of fuel efficiency is going to help that.

Plus , while Uranium is extremely power dense , the reactor and shielding that go along with it are quite heavy , ie you're mostly nullifying that benefit.

You're better off sticking to traditional Jet A and transitioning to hybrid or hydrogen later on.

 

 

And at the end of that day , why? The primary reason the US government had was to create an ultra-long range bomber during the cold war : a plane that could fly for weeks or months . This was before ICBMs remember, during the cold war.

But what's the point for airliners? At most you're going to be flying for a dozen hours or so.

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Posted
19 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

If you can get rid of the need to re-fuel mid-flight, that would ease your logistical pressure even more and eliminate interruptions if you have to go out of the operating zone to refuel.

Jets already have already crazy logistical range, esp for the U.S. with the aircraft carriers.

 

Operation Opera comes to mind; they even dropped their fuel tanks, yet successfully bombed a far-off target, and came back. That was nearly 40 years ago. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Raskolnikov said:

Jets already have already crazy logistical range, esp for the U.S. with the aircraft carriers.

 

Operation Opera comes to mind; they even dropped their fuel tanks, yet successfully bombed a far-off target, and came back. That was nearly 40 years ago.

That sort of mission isn't what I had in mind. I'm thinking more reconnaissance and operational support.

 

Granted if you need long endurance, you could just throw up a drone since those have 40 hours of endurance.

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36 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

That sort of mission isn't what I had in mind. I'm thinking more reconnaissance and operational support.

 

Granted if you need long endurance, you could just throw up a drone since those have 40 hours of endurance.

X37B has years of endurance

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4 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Nuclear reactors are designed to not explode.

 

The bombs rely on a very fast reaction to split atoms, reactors rely on a slower reaction that only produces heat.

Yeah it's sad how people instantly think all nuclear reactors just blow up and are always on the cusp of exploding. Reactors have to be able to withstand repeated 747s crashing into them and so much more. It's just when someone goes wrong we all hear about it

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
3 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Yeah it's sad how people instantly think all nuclear reactors just blow up and are always on the cusp of exploding. Reactors have to be able to withstand repeated 747s crashing into them and so much more. It's just when someone goes wrong we all hear about it

Well. When it goes wrong, it goes wrong.

 

Jets crash all the time, no need to add the prospect of radiation to it. 

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you mentioned 60 years ago so you are probably aware of the content in this video.  At any rate I watched this a little bit ago and thought it was epic.

 

My guess is that shielding a nuclear reactor hasn't got much easier.

 

 

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1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Well, the crew still need to eat and do their business.

Its an unmanned space shuttle type orbital vehicle that is launched from a rocket, but has its own OMS and small engine to change orbit. It can basically go anywhere they need to within a few hours or launch.

 

Since its pretty well known it makes you wonder what else the military actually has thats more advanced.

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11 hours ago, James Evens said:

Why did nobody told this Chernobyl or fukushima?

 

As far as i know the old experiments where also focused on the NaK cooled salt reactors.

 

Chernobyl was an unsafe design being operated in a fashion that was not remotely how it was designed to be used. It's like throwing a lit match down a cars fuel tank after having already created just the right mixture in their to cause an explosion and then saying cars explode when the gas tank gets hot. Accurate under very specific circumstances, but otherwise complete bumf.

 

Fukushima the reactors themselves never exploded. They had issues with the water cooling pools when they lost water which tore the outer building structure around the reactor to bits.

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On 11/1/2018 at 11:19 AM, VegetableStu said:

bomb explosions are made of quickly decaying material (rapid evaporation). reactors rely on slowly decaying material (yey cancers) ._.

 

i mean there are design theories of nuclear bombs with slow decaying fallout, but (thankfully) it's generally considered as extremely horrifying at a planetary level, so... yay?

Let me rephrase that, sorry.

 

Flying around on a dirty bomb. Yay.

 

(better?)

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Posted

It is just plain stupid:

- aircrafts need a lot of shielding to protect against radiation which means the plane will be extremely heavy

- Better hope planes doesn't crash or you might have a small nuclear problem.

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Other than the obvious problem of weight of the 'station' itself, you also have to think about radiation, you'd need to make the fuselage out of lead, which is not only fucking heavy put also toxic in of itself. So it might be physically possible, right now no-one on earth would be mad enough to try

 

Nuclear meltdown would be a problem to, also plane crashes as someone mentioned would very quickly turn the world in a Fallout game

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here is another video that explain's how weight affect's an airplane.  The focus of the video is on electric commercial airliners but the concept still applies.

 

 

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On 11/1/2018 at 8:51 AM, Colt_0pz said:

Rather than try to store a ton of batteries, can't we use a nuclear reactor to power a plane? The only time I am aware that this was carried out was about 60 years ago and I ponder if it is possible using modern-day technology.

Ok, but why? Let's assume this is possible - power storage on board of a plane has never been a problem as far as I know and a nuclear reactor requires a steam turbine to work, which would probably weigh more than a battery.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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On 11/1/2018 at 3:14 AM, zeveroare said:

Flying around on a nuclear bomb. Great idea.

(I realize I posted this over a year ago but...) its not as awful as it might seem. Uranium in reactors is not enriched to the same levels as Uranium in bombs.

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On 11/1/2018 at 12:51 AM, Colt_0pz said:

Rather than try to store a ton of batteries, can't we use a nuclear reactor to power a plane? The only time I am aware that this was carried out was about 60 years ago and I ponder if it is possible using modern-day technology.

Eh.

 

A Nuclear Powered aircraft meant to fly in earths atmosphere, you would never get anyone to sign off on the paperwork. Assuming you could make a reactor small and safe enough, if that thing crashes, it scatters radioactive material over a mile of the surface and makes the clean up 1000x worse than had it just been jet fuel. Nobody would insure such a thing because it would bankrupt any airline who flew one. It's not a question of IF, but WHEN an aircraft fails. Unlike land-based nuclear reactors, you aren't going to extend the life of a nuclear powered aircraft either, since there will be material fatigue that won't make it worthwhile to operate either.

 

Now a nuclear powered SPACE craft is a bit less insane. However there's caveats.

 

a) Launch and/or assemble the craft in orbit without the reactor fueled. Test and fuel it in outside of earth orbit. It has to be a reactor that generates little or no weaponizable materials, like a Thorium fueled reactor.

b) Never land the craft, when it reaches the end of it's life, the reactor is removed and jettisoned somewhere away from earth's orbit. 

c) The space craft would have to be large enough to deal with the cooling and cargo/crew.

 

In the worst case scenario, a nuclear powered spacecraft would be "abandoned and disposed of" by sending it into a parking orbit beyond pluto where the sun's gravity won't pull it back towards the earth in the next 100,000 years. There is a remote chance that someone might try to salvage it, but hopefully any nuclear material left in it would decay to safe levels by then and not be weaponized. 

 

At any rate, the problem sill lies with getting nuclear fuel into orbit, because just like with the aircraft issue, if a rocket blows up with nuclear material on it, now that sends radioactive materials over hundred of miles.

 

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10 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

a) Launch and/or assemble the craft in orbit without the reactor fueled. Test and fuel it in outside of earth orbit. It has to be a reactor that generates little or no weaponizable materials, like a Thorium fueled reactor.

Personally, I don't mind if it can be weaponized or not, but thorium is a better fuel overall.

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On 11/1/2018 at 3:51 AM, Colt_0pz said:

Rather than try to store a ton of batteries, can't we use a nuclear reactor to power a plane? The only time I am aware that this was carried out was about 60 years ago and I ponder if it is possible using modern-day technology.

Yes it's totally possible - you could use a small reactor to power an electric aircraft - the problem is that without a combustible fuel source, you're relying on purely electric power - which for an aircraft pretty much means a propeller or some kind of turbine (which is ultimately just a fancier propeller) - you couldn't use a traditional jet turbine, since those rely on spraying the compressed intake air with fuel and igniting it.

 

The main problem would be weight - could you miniaturize the reactor enough to get it light enough but also still powerful enough? I'm sure it could be done.

 

But it's not terribly practical at the moment with current technology.

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Posted

weight is an issue

 

also power to weight is an issue

 

space is an issue

 

aerodynamics is an issue

 

other priorities are at the table atm, more fuel efficient engines for commercial aeroplanes

the military is doing quite well, always new tech from that trickles down into the commercial/industrial commerce

same goes for space travel

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