Intel's 28 Core 5Ghz CPU is misleading at best

[mr moose]

42 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Notice the lack of context provided except flasvy numbers and a date to expect it?

 

This is my take away from it, the article in the OP even claims the 5Ghz number was assumed to be factory clock by media.  @leadeater seems to have a video or something where Intel makes more specific claims, but I have yet to find it and from what he has claimed even those don't seem to be detailed enough to make absolute statements.  As @pas008 pointed out, this type of showoffmanshipo is common. If they can't produce the goods in Q4 then we can claim it's misleading, until then it's just another product showcase with little promise.

 

To the rest of the thread:

If you feel it's misleading then more power to you, if you don't care then you'll probably sleep well tonight.   Personally I'm not too sure how many people were going to run out and buy a bar fridge to cool an as yet unreleased CPU that might be an older xeon (as every tech reviewer/journalist pointed out it most likely was) or might be a demo for a new product in several months.  Either way it seems like a pretty silly thing to get your panties in a knot over.

[asus killer]

what is the point of Intel showing at something like Computex a CPU that runs of a chiller with actual Cinebench score? is that now a overclocking competition. Of course it was misleading.

 

Everyone obvious concluded it was not some weird experiment for a OC contest or a prototype some dudes at Intel decided to play with for lolz and that was never meant to be sold, they concluded it was a CPU to be realeased soon with those specs, that's the nature of Computex.

[leadeater]

35 minutes ago, mr moose said:

This is my take away from it, the article in the OP even claims the 5Ghz number was assumed to be factory clock by media.  @leadeater seems to have a video or something where Intel makes more specific claims, but I have yet to find it and from what he has claimed even those don't seem to be detailed enough to make absolute statements.  As @pas008 pointed out, this type of showoffmanshipo is common. If they can't produce the goods in Q4 then we can claim it's misleading, until then it's just another product showcase with little promise.

Intel only states a clock they never state what it is, stock or OC or anything that is kind of the point.

 

Name a single time during a main press event when Intel has shown off a new CPU have they ever used non stock figures.

 

This type of showman ship on the main stage like this is not common, trade shows have OC events for this stuff and that is where those are shown not on the main stage.

 

Yes lets all ignore actually what was shown and what was actually said.

 

35 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Either way it seems like a pretty silly thing to get your panties in a knot over.

Thing is most are not, it was still a misleading presentation that Intel did. Saying it's was misleading is not getting panties in a knot it's just stating what is pretty evident to everyone who actually watched the presentation.

 

People are also bringing in information found out after the presentation, thing is that's after what happened and the issue is what was not said on stage, what the clocks actually were stock or OC.

 

P.S. the quotes I gave you in my other post are direct quotes from the Intel press video you can go fact check them, they were said as written.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Intel only states a clock the never state what it is, stock or OC or anything that is kind of the point.

How do you propose that they have mislead you if hey haven't given you misleading information?

 

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Name a single time during a main press event when Intel has shown off a new CPU have the ever used non stock figures.

 

This type of showman ship on the main stage like this is not common, trade shows have OC events for this stuff and that is where those are shown not on the main stage.

 

Not sure how being on a main stage or not makes this a problem.   Are they are being misleading because they did it on a card table and not at a main event?

 

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes lets all ignore actually what was shown and what was actually said.

Or remember that a lot wasn't actually said and you should add words where non where uttered.

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Thing is most are not, it was still a misleading presentation that Intel did. Saying it's was misleading is not getting panties in a knot it's just stating what is pretty evident to everyone who actually watched the presentation.

Then I hope you aren't loosing sleep over it.  It seems after 7 pages some people might be. 

 

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

People are also bringing in information found out after the presentation, thing is that's after what happened and the issue is what was not said on stage, what the clocks actually were stock or OC.

 

The videos I watched were from GN and LTT both at the event.  They both pointed at the board and Identified the socket, made educated guesses as to what it actually was.

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

P.S. the quotes I gave you in my other post are direct quotes from the Intel press video you can go fact check them, they were said as written.

I know.

[Canada EH]

On 6/6/2018 at 9:24 AM, RadiatingLight said:

Intel's 28-core 5Ghz CPU is nothing more than extreme overclocking of an existing Xeon Platinum 8180.

 

With extreme cooling!

[leadeater]

27 minutes ago, mr moose said:

How do you propose that they have mislead you if hey haven't given you misleading information?

As I said you can mislead by not giving information.

 

29 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The videos I watched were from GN and LTT both at the event.  They both pointed at the board and Identified the socket, made educated guesses as to what it actually was.

After the press event and after the news articles were written, lets not forget timelines now shall we. Is it the responsibility of these outlets to give us the information or is it Intel's who actually gave the presentation about the product and were actually talking about it and are the source of information for these outlets.

 

32 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Then I hope you aren't loosing sleep over it.  It seems after 7 pages some people might be. 

I'm surprised it's 7 pages, people are either accepting that withholding important information is not misleading or it is. Rest is just fluff talk basically, I often like some good fluff talk myself.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

As I said you can mislead by not giving information.

you can, you can do lots of things without giving information.

 

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

After the press event and after the news articles were written, lets not forget timelines now shall we. Is it the responsibility of these outlets to give us the information or is it Intel's who actually gave the presentation about the product and were actually talking about it and are the source of information for these outlets.

Did these reviewers have access to it before?   Do you think Intel put it on display hoping that no one was going to identify the board, socket or likely CPU? I don;t think they care, I think anything that happens from here on in will just be PR control.   I think they were not interested in specifically saying what it was because it was obvious to those interested what it was.   When I post a picture of a PC case I don't tell people it is a PC case.   Why would they waste time in a presentation giving out obvious information or information that may change.  

 

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I'm surprised it's 7 pages, people are either accepting that withholding important information is not misleading or it is. Rest is just fluff talk basically, I often like some good fluff talk myself.

Fluff is found in the filter of the clothes dryers and in the navel of clean people.

[Blademaster91]

3 hours ago, leadeater said:

As I said you can mislead by not giving information.

 

After the press event and after the news articles were written, lets not forget timelines now shall we. Is it the responsibility of these outlets to give us the information or is it Intel's who actually gave the presentation about the product and were actually talking about it and are the source of information for these outlets.

It was after the press event that the media was giving all kinds of clickbait-y headlines while going "hmm looks like a Xeon so it must be this exact cpu" as if they're going to sell that exact product with it being 5Ghz stock,when Intel themselves said a 28 core cpu capable of 5Ghz is something being worked on. Nothing was ever stated if it was going to be that CPU,board or what kind of cooling whatever that final cpu would need.  IMO, applause to LTT for actually showing the Asus showcase without making a ton of BS assumptions on it.

I watched the Intel event live on UFDtech's channel and thought LOL NO that isn't a production ready cpu at all with those giant heatsinks on the board and whatever the heck that cooler is. But the media like anandtech and GN have to take to spreading their own guesses while not even showing both of the showcased systems, GN throwing in some memes for the lulz to get even more views, instead of any footage of the event. I thought the video was funny, and as much as I like Steve's content, I think he should have been more fair or showed the Gigabyte and Asus systems.

And everyone gives free passes to AMD now talking of a 32 core chip when wasn't it a 24 core being talked about before? And them going "hey look we have a 7nm GPU" (that you can't buy). Guess we can't ever call out AMD for being misleading.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Did these reviewers have access to it before?   Do you think Intel put it on display hoping that no one was going to identify the board, socket or likely CPU? I don;t think they care, I think anything that happens from here on in will just be PR control.   I think they were not interested in specifically saying what it was because it was obvious to those interested what it was.   When I post a picture of a PC case I don't tell people it is a PC case.   Why would they waste time in a presentation giving out obvious information or information that may change.  

Does everyone follow these tech youtube channels? Does everyone know what they are looking at exactly? Does everyone know what a suspicious cooling solution looks like?

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Does everyone follow these tech youtube channels? Does everyone know what they are looking at exactly? Does everyone know what a suspicious cooling solution looks like?

Does everyone read the EULA? does everyone watch computex and e3 demonstrations and speeches? does everyone bother with half the information? do some people ignore reality to include their own assumptions? do some people feel their emotional response is more valid than someone else's emotional response?  Do tech youtubers sometimes get it wrong? do forum members sometimes misdirect their personal hatred for a company?  Can people be easily influenced? can people be unswayed by generalized marketing trends?  does the size of my couch preclude me from attaining certain social stature among the rugby league fraternity or will the floral pattern relegate me to lady boy status watching the mardi-gras alone with men who have less testosterone than preteen girls?    

 

 

If people don't know the difference between a standard CPU cooler and a window box air conditioner plumbed onto a CPU then they are not enthusiasts and hardly likely to be swayed by such a demonstration. Especially to be thinking they have to buy this particular part if it ever gets released.    Do you know any enthusiasts who buy HEDT parts without checking reviews and benchmarks?  Why is this demonstration going to be any different?  Why do you think people are going to be fooled into buying a multi thousand dollar part without checking it's legitimacy on the market (when it is released).

[Misanthrope]

3 hours ago, pas008 said:

so we should call out all cars at carshows representing more hp/etc

all tvs that say hdr which is fake hdr

all movies that show scenes in trailers but not the movie?

features, graphics, gameplay, etc in video games but removed on released product

fuck I can go on and on about showcases misrepresenting at product that hasnt been finalized

wow

Yes.

 

Spoiler

Also yes, that dot means that it is final.

 

[leadeater]

18 minutes ago, mr moose said:

If people don't know the difference between a standard CPU cooler and a window box air conditioner plumbed onto a CPU then they are not enthusiasts and hardly likely to be swayed by such a demonstration.

Was the chiller shown on stage or mentioned? Nope. So lets go with what was actually known at the time of the press event and what was actually shown, a dark case with suspicious tubing. The rest you do not know yet and were not told.

 

18 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Do you know any enthusiasts who buy HEDT parts without checking reviews and benchmarks?  Why is this demonstration going to be any different? 

Intel is creating news about a new CPU that was shown at 5Ghz, that's the expectation they are giving and what these people are hearing in the news. Yes of course you'll look at benchmarks and product specs when they are available but those later events don't not make this misleading. The headline is "New Intel 28 core 5Ghz HEDT CPU", that's what was shown after all was it not?

 

Quote

What appears to be Intel’s biggest announcement may also be somewhat of a mystery. Bryant said he’ll break from tradition and show an unannounced processor early. There doesn’t seem to be any subterfuge: Bryant confirmed that this will be a single-socket processor inside of a PC, with 28 cores. “We’ll show it screaming—all sorts of benchmarks and workloads running,” he said. “World-leading performance.”

 

On stage, Bryant backed it up: the 28-core chip runs at 5 GHz, and chewed through the Cinebench benchmark in a few seconds. 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3278091/components-processors/intel-computex-news-a-28-core-chip-a-5ghz-8086-two-new-architectures-and-more.html

 

Seems PC World was sufficiently mislead.

 

Quote

Intel has started teasing a 28-core processor for PCs at Computex this week. The chipmaker briefly demonstrated the processor onstage today, promising that it will be available later this year. Intel isn’t revealing the mystery processor’s process technology or architecture, but a spokesperson did reveal it’s a single-socket processor with 28 cores running at 5GHz. Intel demonstrated a Cinebench score of 7,334, an impressive result for a single processor PC.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/5/17428570/intel-28-core-processor-teaser-computex-2018

 

The Verge.

 

Quote

Intel's 18-core i9 CPU is still impressive, but that's last year's news. Today at Computex, Intel SVP Gregory Bryant demoed a 28-core processor running at 5GHz. It's the first time we've seen a single socket desktop CPU cram in that many cores, and it's certainly powerful. In Cinebench, it achieved a score of 7,334 on stage, something that's only bested by multi-processor systems. Better yet, Bryant says it's not just a concept, as Intel plans to sell the 28-core CPU by the end of the year. Time to start saving.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/06/05/intel-28-core-cpu/

 

Engadget.

 

Quote

But the announcement that’s getting most of the attention is Intel's high-end desktop processor (HEDT) that comes with an incredible 28 cores and 56 threads. Gregory Bryant, senior vice president and general manager of the client computing group at Intel, showed the chip running at 5GHz across all cores and scoring 7334 multi-core points in Cinebench. As a comparison, the 18-core/36-thread Core i9-7980XE scored around 5000 points.

https://www.techspot.com/news/74931-intel-announces-28-core-cpu-5ghz-core-i7.html

 

Techspot.

 

Hmm no mention of a water chiller or that the 5Ghz frequency is not a final product spec, I wonder where they got that information from.

[Thaldor]

I don't really care about was it just showmanship from Intel or real BS. I just want to throw some gasoline to the flames and see the world burning.

 

Intel basicly promised 28-core 5.0Ghz CPU for Q4 2018. With normal cooling methods that sounds way too utopistical promise, but with phase-cooling it's really nothing more than binning Xeon 8180s and putting bigger price. Why it sounds too utopistical? Either Intel doesn't have even showable prototype at the moment or they just don't want to show it, for sure there isn't single one of those upcoming CPUs at the Computex.

Directly from the keynote:

Quote

We have Gigabyte and Asus both with this brand new single-socket 28-core processor.

 

LTT has a video showing that Asus system which runs on custom waterloop and has a ton of cooling power and manages to get around 6100CB, quite a lot less than the Gigabyte system. Paul's Hardware has a video about the Gigabyte system that was showcased with the around 7300CB score and that is some real art (Anandtech and Tom's hardware have great pictures of the Gigabyte system). What I know about phase-cooling, I would say that reservoir and "pump" are just for the looks and the real loop is CPU and VRM (they might be on the exit side of the loop just for the looks without any real purpose other than make it look like a real loop). With phase-cooled VRM and CPU (I think) it's a walk in the park to get lottery win Xeon 8180 to run at 5.0Ghz and I can bet my head that those both systems are running same CPU and that is Xeon 8180, made for the case, probably, but no where near "brand new single-socket 28-core processor" (excpet if they mean that they are not second-hand CPUs).

 

Also if Linus has lost some socks on the trip, he better go ask them from Gigabyte. Seems like they didn't only take "Bobs" aquarium cooler, but also someones white socks for that loop and also their office painter is probably missing some marker's tape

[leadeater]

50 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

And everyone gives free passes to AMD now talking of a 32 core chip when wasn't it a 24 core being talked about before? And them going "hey look we have a 7nm GPU" (that you can't buy). Guess we can't ever call out AMD for being misleading.

What may I ask was misleading about announcing a new 32 core SKU? That we didn't previously know about it, you know that's not what was misleading about the 28 core Intel one either. Not knowing isn't the same thing as misleading. At least AMD clarified that the clocks shown were not final and the cooling solution, though not too much credit can be given for the cooling bit since this was after the Intel event and the news about it and the water chiller.

 

As for that 7nm GPU yes you can buy it if you have the money, just like you can buy a Tesla V100 if you have the money. Out of reach of individuals pockets doesn't mean you can't buy it.

 

But AMD never got called out for their misleading of Vega and higher than GTX 1080 performance, wait they did.

[Blademaster91]

52 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Does everyone follow these tech youtube channels? Does everyone know what they are looking at exactly? Does everyone know what a suspicious cooling solution looks like?

Well,no? But these tech channels and sites should know what to look for,and wait until after the event instead of making an early guess based on only the press event if so little info is given.

I was gonna edit my other post but I do agree with one of your previous posts that Intel should have shown off the Asus concept  using water cooling instead, or not show the case at all on both, and hidden that Gigabyte system using that fancy chiller without revealing it later to avoid the press calling it out as being misleading. I also think Intel also should have gotten Der8auer on the stage overclocking the 8086K if they wanted a bunch of press on extreme overclocks.

[GDRRiley]

12 hours ago, leadeater said:

The presenter pointed directly at the computer and stated they are taking that product to market in Q4 this year. If it's not going to be as shown then you are misleading, unless they sell every CPU with a water chiller then I'll take back the misleading part. The water chiller not shown on stage or mentioned.

Its bring your own CPU chiller or pay 1.5X the cost of others for the intel stock thermal solution LGA3647+

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Was the chiller shown on stage or mentioned? Nope. So lets go with what was actually known at the time of the press event and what was actually shown, a dark case with suspicious tubing. The rest you do not know yet and were not told.

Not told about the cooler, saw tubes and not a standard cooler but are willing to assume this means a standard cooler?  Who buys that?  Maybe it will need specific cooling or maybe only the prototype does.  It can be argued they didn't specify a cooling solution because it isn't settled which one it needs yet.

 

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Intel is creating news about a new CPU that was shown at 5Ghz, that's the expectation they are giving and what these people are hearing in the news. Yes of course you'll look at benchmarks and product specs when they are available but those later events don't not make this misleading. The headline is "New Intel 28 core 5Ghz HEDT CPU", that's what was shown after all was it not?

Yes, lots of headlines,  so then when they don't deliver you can call it misleading.

 

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3278091/components-processors/intel-computex-news-a-28-core-chip-a-5ghz-8086-two-new-architectures-and-more.html

 

Seems PC World was sufficiently mislead.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/5/17428570/intel-28-core-processor-teaser-computex-2018

 

The Verge.

 

https://www.engadget.com/2018/06/05/intel-28-core-cpu/

 

Engadget.

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/74931-intel-announces-28-core-cpu-5ghz-core-i7.html

 

Techspot.

 

Hmm no mention of a water chiller or that the 5Ghz frequency is not a final product spec, I wonder where they got that information from.

Some quotes from those articles:

 

Quote

Intel is promising to turn this processor into a real product

So they actually never claimed the product they had was the finished product but are promising they will turn it into one.  Until they don't this is not misleading.

 

Quote

Intel SVP Gregory Bryant demoed a 28-core processor running at 5GHz. It's the first time we've seen a single socket desktop CPU cram in that many cores, and it's certainly powerful. In Cinebench, it achieved a score of 7,334 on stage, something that's only bested by multi-processor systems. Better yet, Bryant says it's not just a concept, as Intel plans to sell the 28-core CPU by the end of the year.

Again, they are demonstrating 28 cores a 5ghz and promising a product in Q4.  If they actually release this in Q4 then this is not misleading.

 

Quote

Intel wouldn’t disclose any more details about the chip, including its process technology or architecture, but it sounds like we’ll see it soon—Bryant said it will ship during the fourth quarter. 

And again, not saying what it is except they will ship a 28 core 5Ghz in Q4.  Is it Q4 yet?

 

Quote

Intel only teased the chip—no details on the name, architecture or process—but we can expect it to be considerably more expensive than the $1999 Core i9-7980XE. It plans to sell the CPU before the end of the year.

I see a recurring theme here.

 

Regardless of what the actual CPU is, the only thing they have promised is a 5Ghz 28 core CPU.  It can't actually be misleading if they deliver.

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Yes, lots of headlines,  so then when they don't deliver you can call it misleading.

We can right now as Intel did not actually say or promise the product would have 5Ghz, they showed it running at 5Ghz but they never said that's what the product would actually have.

[pas008]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

We can right now as Intel did not actually say or promise the product would have 5Ghz, they showed it running at 5Ghz but they never said that's what the product would actually have.

Intel never confirmed any details except 28 core?

 

So rest was up to writers of the articles?

[mr moose]

39 minutes ago, leadeater said:

We can right now as Intel did not actually say or promise the product would have 5Ghz, they showed it running at 5Ghz but they never said that's what the product would actually have.

 

33 minutes ago, pas008 said:

Intel never confirmed any details except 28 core?

 

So rest was up to writers of the articles?

 

 

And this is were people start adding their own information to decide if it is misleading or not. It was running at 5Ghz and some article claim Intel directly inferred the new product would too.   As much as I respect Steve from Gamers nexus, his video covering this is a little disingenuous to the the actually presentation and it's intent. Which is leading people to draw all sorts of conclusions regarding what Intel claimed/promised.  If Intel don't make some sort of correction to the media response then I would say it is fair to assume they agree it will be 5Ghz.

 

If we get the end of Q4 (or mid Q1 with a plausible reason for delay) and Intel have nothing to show I'll call it misleading too. However if they front up with a product that fits what they claim, then I am going to simply shake my head for the state of the world. 

[leadeater]

50 minutes ago, pas008 said:

Intel never confirmed any details except 28 core?

 

So rest was up to writers of the articles?

No Intel showed what they showed, people reported on it. Intel being unclear on exactly what was shown is what people are pointing at as being misleading.

 

They set an expectation by showing it running 5Ghz, Intel did that no one else. Are we really going to play shoot the messenger?

[pas008]

28 minutes ago, leadeater said:

No Intel showed what they showed, people reported on it. Intel being unclear on exactly what was shown is what people are pointing at as being misleading.

 

They set an expectation by showing it running 5Ghz, Intel did that no one else. Are we really going to play shoot the messenger?

When the messenger throws their own twist

Intel showcased a product with liquid cooling RUNNING at 5ghz

Only thing they confirmed was 28 core

Now how would you interpret that in your article?

Exactly

[Dylanc1500]

28 minutes ago, leadeater said:

No Intel showed what they showed, people reported on it. Intel being unclear on exactly what was shown is what people are pointing at as being misleading.

 

They set an expectation by showing it running 5Ghz, Intel did that no one else. Are we really going to play shoot the messenger?

To be fair they weren't just being the paper boy, they were also the reporter, and we all know journalists and reporters will sometimes misinterpret or misunderstand. Sometimes they even insert their own interpretation if something is vague or not fully understood.

 

And that's all I have to say about that. Hopefully someone gets that reference.

[leadeater]

16 minutes ago, pas008 said:

When the messenger throws their own twist

What twist? I think you might be confusing the news articles with the follow up opinion pieces where the cooling was discovered and discussed. No one writing a news article after the press event could have stated that the system was chilled water liquid cooled, you couldn't know that by looking at it. You could only guess that it's water cooled. Water cooling isn't exactly exotic and critical information, it may not be truly representative of all setups but chilled water is representative of about zero people (or close enough to it).

[pas008]

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

What twist? I think you might be confusing the news articles with the follow up opinion pieces where the cooling was discovered and discussed. No one writing a news article after the press event could have stated that the system was chilled water liquid cooled, you couldn't know that by looking at it. You could only guess that it's water cooled. Water cooling isn't exactly exotic and critical information, it may not be truly representative of all setups but chilled water is representative of about zero people (or close enough to it).

Doesn't matter when people are interpreting 5ghz 28 core release in their articles

When only confirmation is 28 core

 

Not to mention all core 5ghz and we know Intel does turbo shit