Intel's 28 Core 5Ghz CPU is misleading at best

[pas008]

Just now, Swatson said:

it's not misleading cooling, it's a misleading product pitch as a whole.

"Poor Volta" was never a real thing. It's a fan created meme based on a poster in the background of a youtube video. Not quite the same thing as saying "Oh we have this 28 core cpu running at 5ghz, and btw available Q4."

 

 

wow

running at 5ghz means they have it running at 5ghz not what the stock or turbo shit is and obviously shown with exotic cooling

 

logic?

[ravenshrike]

2 minutes ago, Swatson said:

All companies do misleading things but you can bet if AMD showed off a 5ghz, 32 core threadripper using a fucking water chiller and said "Available Q4", they would be getting shit on too.

Ehh, not really, but that's because given the current nature of the Zen architechture, a 5 Ghz Threadripper would be capable of 4.7-4.8 Ghz on normal cooling. Needless to say, that would be... impressive.

[GoldenLag]

2 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

Ehh, not really, but that's because given the current nature of the Zen architechture, a 5 Ghz Threadripper would be capable of 4.7-4.8 Ghz on normal cooling. Needless to say, that would be... impressive.

ehh. a threadripper 2 would probably barely run 4.2 on watercooling. thats on all 32 cores and custom watercooling.

 

threadripper 3 and 7nm is a different matter and we have no substantial numbers other than "should be able to do 5 ghz". 

 

i think youve missunderstood the Zen architecture. the achitecture is plagued by voltage walls. 

[S w a t s o n]

13 minutes ago, pas008 said:

 

wow

running at 5ghz means they have it running at 5ghz not what the stock or turbo shit is and obviously shown with exotic cooling

 

logic?

It's obvious to us that this was a sham, but just because we can see through it doesn't make it right. And no, it was not "obviously" exotic cooling. We have pictures now that confirm it but the actual demo was just a desktop with a hose that was not very visible at all coming out of the back.
 

12 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

Ehh, not really, but that's because given the current nature of the Zen architecture, a 5 Ghz Threadripper would be capable of 4.7-4.8 Ghz on normal cooling. Needless to say, that would be... impressive.

The actual number doesn't matter, and you cannot extrapolate how zen behaves in all scenarios with all types of cooling, that water chiller is getting WELL below ambient and is more comparable to LN2 (really more like DICE/phase change) than water IMO.

Yes the Intel chips can overclock further but the point is, if AMD rolled out a 32 core threadripper at any given clock rate that was clearly unachievable under normal circumstances, and then said it would be available for purchase without any other caveats, they would get shit on.

[pas008]

8 minutes ago, Swatson said:

It's obvious to us that this was a sham, but just because we can see through it doesn't make it right. And no, it was not "obviously" exotic cooling. We have pictures now that confirm it but the actual demo was just a desktop with a hose that was not very visible at all coming out of the back.
 

The actual number doesn't matter, and you cannot extrapolate how zen behaves in all scenarios with all types of cooling, that water chiller is getting WELL below ambient and is more comparable to LN2 (really more like DICE/phase change) than water IMO.

Yes the Intel chips can overclock further but the point is, if AMD rolled out a 32 core threadripper at any given clock rate that was clearly unachievable under normal circumstances, and then said it would be available for purchase without any other caveats, they would get shit on.

lol liquid cooled with tubes taped up?

logic

 

and fyi that ad poster from youtube video was produced by amd 7 secs with long enough pause

 

[PocketNerd]

Lol, Intel is super salty that they got caught.

Common guys, you should have known you were going to be figured out. Especially since it was THAT obvious. The IT Community isn't full of idiots (well, sometimes we are, but that's beside the point).

[S w a t s o n]

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

lol liquid cooled with tubes taped up?

logic

 

and fyi that ad poster from youtube video was produced by amd 7 secs with long enough pause

 

Yes it was liquid cooled, exactly for the reason of keeping it under wraps in my opinion. Again remember that this demo was held in a room up on stage, go  watch the conference and you'll see that it was not obvious. Here's an example picture of what I mean.
 

Spoiler

If Intel wanted to be honest about it they could have
1. Mentioned the water chiller
2. Used something more obvious like phase change, or LN2.
3. Had it visible and not hidden under the table! (Edited, but here's the obvious choice)

But instead they used a water cooled system which would not raise any flags, other than the one insulated hose going out the back and under the table. It was deliberate.

I agree that both companies have done misleading things, so has Nvidia (remember 970 3.5gb ram gate). Poor Volta is simply not in the same league, it was a terrible PR choice but again. It's just an ad on youtube that effectively no one watched or heard about.

[pas008]

7 minutes ago, Swatson said:

Yes it was liquid cooled, exactly for the reason of keeping it under wraps in my opinion. Again remember that this demo was held in a room up on stage, go  watch the conference and you'll see that it was not obvious. Here's an example picture of what I mean.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

If Intel wanted to be honest about it they could have
1. Mentioned the water chiller
2. Used something more obvious like phase change, or LN2.

But instead they used a water cooled system which would not raise any flags, other than the one insulated hose going out the back and under the table. It was deliberate.

I agree that both companies have done misleading things, so has Nvidia (remember 970 3.5gb ram gate). Poor Volta is simply not in the same league, it was a terrible PR choice but again. It's just an ad on youtube that effectively no one watched or heard about.

oh wow you can have your opinion but any logical person knows intels larger multicore chips dont clock that high and knew something was up

 

and on that uprising video

no one watched but alot of talk about it was on many forums

 

970 was deceiving I got my money but fact was it performed exactly where it was suppose to

[S w a t s o n]

8 minutes ago, pas008 said:

oh wow you can have your opinion but any logical person knows intels larger multicore chips dont clock that high and knew something was up

 

and on that uprising video

no one watched but alot of talk about it was on many forums

 

970 was deceiving I got my money but fact was it performed exactly where it was suppose to

Like I said, we can see through it.

However, Computex is the world wide trade show for PC component OEMS. This means that there is press from all around the globe, and this is the OEM's chance to get a slice of press coverage for the event. As demonstrated by quite a few English language outlets, media were reporting on this chip without asking about caveats ("Intel reveals new 5GHz 28core CPU to be released Q4").

https://www.engadget.com/2018/06/05/intel-28-core-cpu
That link above is why doing this is a problem.

I think it's fair to assume publications in other countries did the same. Basically, Intel knew they could grab headlines for the event by misleading these reporters, and it worked extremely well to their credit. It's still bad practice.

[potoooooooo]

14 minutes ago, pas008 said:

oh wow you can have your opinion but any logical person knows intels larger multicore chips dont clock that high and knew something was up

 

and on that uprising video

no one watched but alot of talk about it was on many forums

 

970 was deceiving I got my money but fact was it performed exactly where it was suppose to

So what you're saying is they can lie and be deceiving as long as people can tell they're lying?

 

Lol

[pas008]

19 minutes ago, Swatson said:

Like I said, we can see through it.

However, Computex is the world wide trade show for PC component OEMS. This means that there is press from all around the globe, and this is the OEM's chance to get a slice of press coverage for the event. As demonstrated by quite a few English language outlets, media were reporting on this chip without asking about caveats ("Intel reveals new 5GHz 28core CPU to be released Q4").

https://www.engadget.com/2018/06/05/intel-28-core-cpu
That link above is why doing this is a problem.

I think it's fair to assume publications in other countries did the same. Basically, Intel knew they could grab headlines for the event by misleading these reporters, and it worked extremely well to their credit. It's still bad practice.

but we still dont know if they can do 5ghz

been around long time and this isnt new practice on shows like this from all companies

like I originally said we have seen it from nv intel amd etc

fuck even on memory ssd etc

9 minutes ago, potoooooooo said:

So what you're saying is they can lie and be deceiving as long as people can tell they're lying?

 

Lol

read above

[S w a t s o n]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

but we still dont know if they can do 5ghz

been around long time and this isnt new practice on shows like this from all companies

like I originally said we have seen it from nv intel amd etc

fuck even on memory ssd etc

read above

The "But he did it!" excuse doesn't help anyone. Each company should be held accountable to their claims. This thread is shitting on intel because intel just fucked up. When Nvidia fucked up with ram-gate they got worse backlash imo.

[pas008]

2 minutes ago, Swatson said:

The "But he did it!" excuse doesn't help anyone. Each company should be held accountable to their claims. This thread is shitting on intel because intel just fucked up. When Nvidia fucked up with ram-gate they got worse backlash imo.

they havent did anything yet its an unreleased product to showcase

I dont care how they did it its a showcase and if journalist and reporters throw their own twist on it thats their fault for not fucking understanding it

 

[Blademaster91]

20 minutes ago, pas008 said:

they havent did anything yet its an unreleased product to showcase

I dont care how they did it its a showcase and if journalist and reporters throw their own twist on it thats their fault for not fucking understanding it

 

Exactly, how many times does a person have to repeat that it's a showcase? It doesn't matter because it's an unreleased product Intel didn't give any specific detail on, it could be a whole new 10nm cpu on another socket for all we know. But I guess we should sue all those companies at computex for showing off things that might not be sold. And well the mainstream journalists are being shit then for giving misinformation if they don't have anything more than assumptions to get clicks, anandtech sure is suspicious they didn't show the Asus system on water cooling, and their front page only has AMD articles at the top, they're probably getting AMD money lol. If you want a fair and competitive market you're going to have to shit on both companies.

[leadeater]

16 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Exactly, how many times does a person have to repeat that it's a showcase? It doesn't matter because it's an unreleased product Intel didn't give any specific detail on, it could be a whole new 10nm cpu on another socket for all we know. But I guess we should sue all those companies at computex for showing off things that might not be sold. And well the mainstream journalists are being shit then for giving misinformation if they don't have anything more than assumptions to get clicks, anandtech sure is suspicious they didn't show the Asus system on water cooling, and their front page only has AMD articles at the top, they're probably getting AMD money lol. If you want a fair and competitive market you're going to have to shit on both companies.

Other than Intel directly saying it was a preview of a product that they have been working on and will be releasing in Q4 this year, and that we know exactly what socket it's on which does not support 10nm and thinking even 10nm at 28 cores 5Ghz is a bit of a stretch.

 

Why are you prepared to give Intel a free pass on this, it was not presented at all as some showcase or prototype and they did a really good job and not saying how they achieved those 5Ghz clocks or that they would be the actual product specs. "Here's a preview of a product running but it's not at the actual product specs and we aren't going to mention that fact".

 

Good job Intel, nice click bait.

 

I mean it's cool and kind of amazing that they could do 5Ghz but don't pedal exotic cooling and OC as something it's not.

[pas008]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Other than Intel directly saying it was a preview of a product that they have been working on and will be releasing in Q4 this year, and that we know exactly what socket it's on which does not support 10nm and thinking even 10nm at 28 cores 5Ghz is a bit of a stretch.

 

Why are you prepared to give Intel a free pass on this, it was not presented at all as some showcase or prototype and they did a really good job and not saying how they achieved those 5Ghz clocks or that they would be the actual product specs. "Here's a preview of a product running but it's not at the actual product specs and we aren't going to mention that fact".

 

Good job Intel, nice click bait.

 

I mean it's cool and kind of amazing that they could do 5Ghz but don't pedal exotic cooling and OC as something it's not.

we have seen this many times though with amd and nvidia too

[S w a t s o n]

Just now, pas008 said:

we have seen this many times though with amd and nvidia too

 

43 minutes ago, Swatson said:

The "But he did it!" excuse doesn't help anyone. Each company should be held accountable to their claims. This thread is shitting on intel because intel just fucked up. When Nvidia fucked up with ram-gate they got worse backlash imo.

 

[pas008]

3 minutes ago, Swatson said:

 

 

looks to be a common practice obviously

dont know how old you are or how long you been around tech but I see it all the time

cpus gpus ssds memory etc

not to mention outside pc like vehicles and tvs

 

[S w a t s o n]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

looks to be a common practice obviously

dont know how old you are or how long you been around tech but I see it all the time

cpus gpus ssds memory etc

not to mention outside pc like vehicles and tvs

 

Each time they should be called out, by discouraging this, you work against that.

[pas008]

10 minutes ago, Swatson said:

Each time they should be called out, by discouraging this, you work against that.

so we should call out all cars at carshows representing more hp/etc

all tvs that say hdr which is fake hdr

all movies that show scenes in trailers but not the movie?

features, graphics, gameplay, etc in video games but removed on released product

fuck I can go on and on about showcases misrepresenting at product that hasnt been finalized

wow

[S w a t s o n]

6 minutes ago, pas008 said:

so we should call out all cars at carshows representing more hp/etc

all tvs that say hdr which is fake hdr

all movies that show scenes in trailers but not the movie?

fuck I can go on and on about showcases misrepresenting at product that hasnt been finalized

wow

If the car company is running nitrous they should probably tell you.

Fake HDR is basically a standards disagreement, we need to actually properly agree on all the standard. Any devices not meeting that final standard should not be advertised as HDR.
Movie's doing that is bad, and should stop. But it's not quite the same situation. You aren't being sold something impossible, it's just slightly different, you still got the content too just not with the rest of the movie.

 

[GoldenLag]

3 minutes ago, pas008 said:

so we should call out all cars at carshows

If they create the wrong context for it, then yes. "Creates 1000mph car and plans on releasing Q4." When in reality it is limited to 400mph.

3 minutes ago, pas008 said:

all tvs that say hdr which is fake hdr

It gets called out quite often. Though it is not public knowlage.

6 minutes ago, pas008 said:

all movies that show scenes in trailers but not the movie?

Trailers create hype and gives a general idea what to expect from the movie. Intel showed us something we cant expect with the context thay we should be expecting it. Not a terrible point though.

9 minutes ago, pas008 said:

fuck I can go on and on about showcases misrepresenting at product that hasnt been finalized

Did these products also give the expected release date and the indication that we would be getting what they were showcasing as a working prototype?

[pas008]

15 minutes ago, Swatson said:

If the car company is running nitrous they should probably tell you.

Fake HDR is basically a standards disagreement, we need to actually properly agree on all the standard. Any devices not meeting that final standard should not be advertised as HDR.
Movie's doing that is bad, and should stop. But it's not quite the same situation. You aren't being sold something impossible, it's just slightly different, you still got the content too just not with the rest of the movie.

 

 

10 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

If they create the wrong context for it, then yes. "Creates 1000mph car and plans on releasing Q4." When in reality it is limited to 400mph.

It gets called out quite often. Though it is not public knowlage.

Trailers create hype and gives a general idea what to expect from the movie. Intel showed us something we cant expect with the context thay we should be expecting it. Not a terrible point though.

Did these products also give the expected release date and the indication that we would be getting what they were showcasing as a working prototype?

 

lol its running did they at all say final specs? base? turbo? or even temps?

 

was the word overclocked used many times?

 

ok then

lol

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

 

 

lol its running did they at all say final specs? base? turbo? or even temps?

 

ok then

lol

How do even mention temps on a product that will have varying degrees of cooling?

No final specs, no base no turbo BUT 5JIGGAHERTZ. Also 28 coars

 

They show cinabench score and mention a release in Q4

 

Notice the lack of context provided except flasvy numbers and a date to expect it?

 

That is the main point here

 

There is no goddam context. And what context there is, is missleading as hell

 

This isnt about other "bullshit callouts"

[Blademaster91]

35 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

How do even mention temps on a product that will have varying degrees of cooling?

No final specs, no base no turbo BUT 5JIGGAHERTZ. Also 28 coars

They show cinabench score and mention a release in Q4

Notice the lack of context provided except flasvy numbers and a date to expect it?

That is the main point here

There is no goddam context. And what context there is, is missleading as hell

This isnt about other "bullshit callouts"

Yeah,all that was mentioned was a release of something in Q4 with 5Ghz and 28 cores, no further context given, no mentioned of what it was cooled by even though its obvious something on that larger socket with a bunch of heatsinks surrounding it and all cores at 5Ghz isn't going to be on air, any more context is just assumptions they're going to sell an unlocked Xeon that you need to power with a clothes dryer outlet.