AMD’s second-generation Ryzen processors are now available for preorder

[Razor01]

http://blacklinereview.com/non-disclosure-agreements-simple-dos-and-donts/

 

basic guidelines for NDA's
 

Quote

Limit the scope of your NDA to evaluation of the disclosed materials for the possibility of entering into subsequent agreement. An NDA should not create business obligations between the parties nor permit the receiving party to use your confidential materials to create products for itself.  Nor should any licensor/licensee relationship be created.

 

 

 

Pretty simple right?  Is this hard to understand.

 

There should be NO business relationships because of the NDA.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

That is true, and I believe mostly the case, because all reviewers publish their testing methodology and anyone can reproduce it to either verify or show where they went wrong.  I believe that has happened a few times, and that's how you can tell the legit reviewers because they admit when something was wrong and explain why and do the testing all over again.   Which further adds to what I am saying, you can tell who is legit by their results, not by how they get their samples.

After writing that post, I further realized that we have some indications in the way LMG handles sponsors: sponsors are not "reviews", they openly tell us "I got paid money to read out loud their marketing points", yet they still have concerns about the impact of a sponsor disappointing viewers. Or when Nice Hash happened. They do seem to feel on the line for what you may decide to buy or use based on their videos, even when rationally there wouldn't be a reason to blame them for it.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

After writing that post, I further realized that we have some indications in the way LMG handles sponsors: sponsors are not "reviews", they openly tell us "I got paid money to read out loud their marketing points", yet they still have concerns about the impact of a sponsor disappointing viewers. Or when Nice Hash happened. They do seem to feel on the line for what you may decide to buy or use based on their videos, even when rationally there wouldn't be a reason to blame them for it.

Which indicates by and large just how aware reviewers are that their reputation hangs in the balance if they aren't completely above board with their viewers. The internet can hang draw and quarter you pretty quick these days. 

[Brooksie359]

2 hours ago, johnukguy said:

You made my point. Thanks for that. It's about revenue for the tech tubers, not benefiting consumers at all and I could care less that some mediocre tech tuber makes a few bucks less. So what? Two days makes zero difference to most of us as consumers and has zero impact on sales of the CPUs, unless of course they turn out to be extremely disappointing, in which case the company deserves what it gets.

If 2 days makes no difference then why release it 2 days early? I mean if 2 days doesn't matter then why not just wait till the embargo lift? You seem to be under the impression that 2 days doesn't matter when it comes to what it means to them and the companies themselves but does when it comes to consumers. Either that or you don't think 2 days matters at all in which case then it shouldn't matter that they wait.

[mr moose]

10 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

If 2 days makes no difference then why release it 2 days early? I mean if 2 days doesn't matter then why not just wait till the embargo lift? You seem to be under the impression that 2 days doesn't matter when it comes to what it means to them and the companies themselves but does when it comes to consumers. Either that or you don't think 2 days matters at all in which case then it shouldn't matter that they wait.

I know you think you think you know what I mean , but I don't think you know I think you know what I know. 

 

2 days does matter,  but as GN has shown in the last week, reputation for them at least is a bigger currency than first out with the review. 

 

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, johnukguy said:

You don't understand the difference between being given thousands of dollars worth of products and having to go and buy them yourself? Seriously? Of course if you're so wealthy that you truly don't understand the difference, that would explain a few things. But most of us in the real world know all too well the difference between being given thousands of dollars worth of stuff and having to go and buy it ourselves. 

Not everything given for review is free, it's a review sample that must be given back. Most laptop reviews fall under this, CPUs and motherboards tend to not.

 

Then you have the other issue of said free stuff is worth less than the content they are making so selling out, which is easily noticed, will yield loss of business but more over loss of continued business. You only need to mess up once to lose your whole audience, if it's big enough.

 

Been more than one tech reviewer piss off a company and not get samples e.g. Gamers Nexus Cool Master H500P Mesh Mod.

[leadeater]

55 minutes ago, mr moose said:

2 days does matter,  but as GN has shown in the last week, reputation for them at least is a bigger currency than first out with the review.

If he did release early I'd likely stop watching his content. Even if you were hard done by over the AMD TR disagreement and therefore not given samples being able to leverage industry contacts to get the samples doesn't give you the moral grounds to benefit from it. It's one thing to level the playing field again for yourself and another to tip it in your favor.

 

Had Steve not had that argument he'd have samples and be under NDA and be bound to the release date, sticking to that timeline even when not under NDA means something to me.

 

P.S. Not that I know if he got refused samples or not just from the sounds of it that was the case and why he's gotten his CPUs elsewhere.

[Neokolzia]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

If he did release early I'd likely stop watching his content. Even if you were hard done by over the AMD TR disagreement and therefore not given samples being able to leverage industry contacts to get the samples doesn't give you the moral grounds to benefit from it. It's one thing to level the playing field again for yourself and another to tip it in your favor.

 

Had Steve not had that argument he'd have samples and be under NDA and be bound to the release date, sticking to that timeline even when not under NDA means something to me.

 

P.S. Not that I know if he got refused samples or not just from the sounds of it that was the case and why he's gotten his CPUs elsewhere.

The GN post/Video is super weird, I don't understand the point they were making at all.   They are acting all like We are not part of the embargo, but we sourced these CPU's elsewhere and here's results with a 1700x or whatever in a X470 and they compare memory.

 

Which also was completely inconclusive and was tested extremely poorly like I have NO idea what they were trying to accomplish. 

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, Neokolzia said:

The GN post/Video is super weird, I don't understand the point they were making at all.   They are acting all like We are not part of the embargo, but we sourced these CPU's elsewhere and here's results with a 1700x or whatever in a X470 and they compare memory.

 

Which also was completely inconclusive and was tested extremely poorly like I have NO idea what they were trying to accomplish. 

They were more just releasing a video in tandem with the unboxing embargo lift like other outlets.

 

GN hasn't signed an NDA with AMD and have also sourced the CPU they used for testing from a distributor, unknown who which is why the serial numbers were taped off because technically GN should not have those CPUs at all. The distributor could/would get in trouble with AMD if their identity becomes known.

 

As to their actual point the video was more just a "Hey be careful about ram you use". The Geil kit was dropping up to 20% performance, so when looking at reviews make sure they are using the supplied RAM by AMD (again something GN can't actually do).

[Neokolzia]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

They were more just releasing a video in tandem with the unboxing embargo lift like other outlets.

 

GN hasn't signed an NDA with AMD and have also sourced the CPU they used for testing from a distributor, unknown who which is why the serial numbers were taped off because technically GN should not have those CPUs at all. The distributor could/would get in trouble with AMD if their identity becomes known.

 

As to their actual point the video was more just a "Hey be careful about ram you use". The Geil kit was dropping up to 20% performance, so when looking at reviews make sure they are using the supplied RAM by AMD (again something GN can't actually do).

I understood that point they were making, but reality is there is always things in hindsight about these sort of tests, and optimizations for new platforms etc.

 

No benchmark is conclusive but unfortunately very few outlets will revisit it and most of the metrics are set immediately.

 

Ryzen is probably the most retested platform just because of these learning experiences.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

They were more just releasing a video in tandem with the unboxing embargo lift like other outlets.

 

GN hasn't signed an NDA with AMD and have also sourced the CPU they used for testing from a distributor, unknown who which is why the serial numbers were taped off because technically GN should not have those CPUs at all. The distributor could/would get in trouble with AMD if their identity becomes known.

 

As to their actual point the video was more just a "Hey be careful about ram you use". The Geil kit was dropping up to 20% performance, so when looking at reviews make sure they are using the supplied RAM by AMD (again something GN can't actually do).

I quite liked the review, as it was a really interesting data point that's going to be causing loads of arguing about how reviews were done. Most likely the issue is auto-subtimings, but it's going to come up. It's also one of those "under the radar" issues that have caused a lot of noticeable conflict among the reviewer & viewer bases. 

 

It also leads to an interesting thing that came to mind. Is it possible it's less the Game Engines and far more the 1080 Ti that's so sensitive to the RAM subtimings? Considering the rate at which high frame rate 1080p gaming is operating, is it possible it's really the specific way the drivers work to keep the GPU fed that's actually been the issue the whole time? We've had plenty of testing showing some fairly sizable gains from what should be not huge changes in memory speed & latency. Just a thought.

[leadeater]

15 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I quite liked the review, as it was a really interesting data point that's going to be causing loads of arguing about how reviews were done. Most likely the issue is auto-subtimings, but it's going to come up. It's also one of those "under the radar" issues that have caused a lot of noticeable conflict among the reviewer & viewer bases.

Well it wasn't really a review though, just a prelude piece. Real one like everyone else will be on the 19th 

[Taf the Ghost]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Well it wasn't really a review though, just a prelude piece. Real one like everyone else will be on the 19th 

Right, it's a preview, but it's also a preview to what comments sections are going to look like for the next 6 months, so that's quite appreciated to know.

[colonel_mortis]

This argument about the legitimacy or purpose of NDAs stops here. It is not materially relevant to the topic at hand, and it should be abundantly clear by this point that nobody is going to change their mind based on the arguments in this topic.

 

I'm not going to remove all of the off topic posts, as it looks like that would entail removing about three whole pages of them.

 

Any more posts on the subject are liable to being removed, warnings being given, and/or the topic being locked.

[NelizMastr]

Pretty hyped for the 2700X. My 1700 OCs and benches lower than expected, so I might as well jump to the new generation. When I got the 1700 the 1700X was still at its original pricing, so it didn't make much sense. Should be much better this time around. Pre-ordered it the day I could, whoop whoop!