Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[iDeFecZx]

3 minutes ago, JoaoPRSousa said:

They needed control over their borders again. And in the meanwhile they are also trying to get people to immigrate because they need workers. Smortn't

Basically this, vast majority of the people who voted leave were of the older generation

[PandaCopyRight]

Just now, iDeFecZx said:

Basically this, vast majority of the people who voted leave were of the older generation

should have gotten more of the younger people to vote 

[iDeFecZx]

7 minutes ago, PandaCopyRight said:

should have gotten more of the younger people to vote 

Yeah, was a close result too. about 52% voted leave

[JoaoPRSousa]

Just now, AlwaysFSX said:

Don't have your head in the clouds about the company and be just a little unbiased.

 

[AlwaysFSX]

10 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

Them dog gone dendrites lurking and ruining everything

Yeah I'm the worst.

Meanwhile I'm over here excited to see the new Lightning, lol.

[Bitter]

What I find encouraging about electric is that batteries will keep getting better for a long time. Gasoline will always have the same energy density and weight, maybe we can squeeze a few more percent engine efficiency from it but so much is wasted as heat and that's just insurmountable.

What's discouraging is that there's not a lot of incentivization to new and better battery tech spun up into production and use, and not just in cars but also in consumer electronics. I hear things about solid state batteries coming but I feel like it's the Michelin Twheel.

[Radium_Angel]

1 minute ago, Bitter said:

is that batteries will keep getting better for a long time.

The main concern (and concern really isn't the right word here, but my brain isn't working right now so concern will have to do) I have is how much of those "old" batteries can be re-used/re-charged/re-built/ or (properly) re-cycled?

Case in point, what happens to a battery pack from a 2005 Toyota Prius, when it fails/is changed out? Does it become hazmat waste, can it be re-purposed or re-freshed and made to work like new again (and at what cost) or for that matter, let's say a revolutionary breakthrough in battery tech occurs next year, can the old 2005 Toyota Prius accept said new tech, or is it abandoned like so many old cellphones that the manufacturer won't support any more?

 

My 1985 Alfa GTV6 still runs on gas, and will forever (at least until gas runs out) but will my 2013 Honda CR-Z (it's a hybrid for those that don't know) be pushed into a forced obsolescence because it'll cost too much to support?

 

I'm not slagging EVs, I just don't know the forward path of older ones.

[bcredeur97]

29 minutes ago, Bitter said:

What I find encouraging about electric is that batteries will keep getting better for a long time. Gasoline will always have the same energy density and weight, maybe we can squeeze a few more percent engine efficiency from it but so much is wasted as heat and that's just insurmountable.

What's discouraging is that there's not a lot of incentivization to new and better battery tech spun up into production and use, and not just in cars but also in consumer electronics. I hear things about solid state batteries coming but I feel like it's the Michelin Twheel.

it's a shame we can't fully utilize gasoline. it packs so much energy. I think I remember seeing/hearing the engineering explained dude saying that a Model S battery is about equivalent to 2.5 gallons of gasoline, just that electric motors are so much more efficient at using the energy that's how they are still able to go so far.

We need a gasoline battery xD but too bad it doesn't work that way

[AlwaysFSX]

29 minutes ago, Bitter said:

What's discouraging is that there's not a lot of incentivization to new and better battery tech spun up into production and use, and not just in cars but also in consumer electronics. I hear things about solid state batteries coming but I feel like it's the Michelin Twheel.

There is incentive there's just an insane research cost for finding production methods to create the materials used for different battery types that the ones we use now. It's simple to make something in a small lab and test its performance and capabilities there in regards to dis/charge, density, and safety; and extrapolating data based on scale. The problem is trying to mass produce any of these materials, honestly on any scale, is a nightmare.

5 minutes ago, willies leg said:

Show me the numbers.

Numbers about...... what?

Also no. I will not regardless. I'm not the one glorifying a company that has no interest in me.

[AlwaysFSX]

2 minutes ago, willies leg said:

stock prices

lol

[iDeFecZx]

3 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

just FYI, pointing out the things that are wrong only helps to make things better. If you're extremely passionate about something and want to see it succeed, you will do everything you can so that the failures are pointed out early so that they can be fixed and it'll maximize your chance of it succeeding. No one here is pessimistic about Tesla, I bet a lot of people would like to see them do well, they just need to make some changes and we are pointing that out.

I'd love to see tesla succeed, I think it's great they are an American company that is pushing new technologies in the automotive field, but they have a lot of work to do. Autopilot is not autopilot, replacement parts can't be had at all, when parts of batteries die you have to change the whole unit for $15-30k which is terrible, as others pointed out, recycling can be a problem, and not to mention the fit&finish on their cars is still rather poor even today. 

If they fix all these issues -- it will be the amazing company that people (like you) claim it is. 

Would probably also help them if they actually released some of their projects they announced years ago

[Radium_Angel]

14 minutes ago, iDeFecZx said:

Would probably also help them if they actually released some of their projects they announced years ago

I can't help but feel Tesla is being positioned to be bought out (for their tech) by one of the Big Three...

It would make it super easy to jump into the EV game with a ready made tech platform (just fire their styling dept.)

[AlwaysFSX]

22 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

-snippy snips-

Let's not forget, a lot of us are actually excited for better electric vehicles to come out compared to ones of the past too. I'll be fucking ecstatic to have a truck where I don't need to spend so much money filling up the gas tank lol.

[AlwaysFSX]

21 minutes ago, iDeFecZx said:

Would probably also help them if they actually released some of their projects they announced years ago

[vetali]

 

[iDeFecZx]

9 minutes ago, PandaCopyRight said:

what numbers? numbers mean FUCK ALL when it comes to battery tech and how the current batteries are shite for the environment. Everyone knows it .. even tesla.

But stocks bro

Stocks mean everything

[PandaCopyRight]

2 minutes ago, iDeFecZx said:

But stocks bro

Stocks mean everything

jesus if stocks actually dictated what happens in the world 

[Commodus]

19 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

I can't help but feel Tesla is being positioned to be bought out (for their tech) by one of the Big Three...

It would make it super easy to jump into the EV game with a ready made tech platform (just fire their styling dept.)

A Big Three purchase might be difficult when Tesla's market cap is over $1 trillion. I suspect that's part of Musk's goal: make Tesla too expensive for an acquisition so he can keep running the company his way. I'm of mixed minds on that, if true. While Tesla could really use an incumbent brand's attention to build quality (relatively speaking) and aftermarket support, I have the feeling they'd iron out some of Tesla's inventiveness.

 

Not that they'd need to buy Tesla at this point. Ford, GM and Stellantis all have plans to electrify their lineups, and so far there haven't been any big missteps. I just wish they'd focus more on mainstream cars and less on premium crossovers and trucks.

[jagdtigger]

On 12/27/2021 at 12:14 PM, JoaoPRSousa said:

So is having a brain

Look who's talking.....

[LogicalDrm]

*** Thread cleaned ***

 

For past 3 pages. Does this cripple some of the discussion? Yes. Do I snip some quotes later? Possibly.

 

Just chill people. Community Standards are still in effect, and I'm personally very disappointed in what I had to read here.

[techswede]

28 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

*** Thread cleaned ***

 

For past 3 pages. Does this cripple some of the discussion? Yes. Do I snip some quotes later? Possibly.

 

Just chill people. Community Standards are still in effect, and I'm personally very disappointed in what I had to read here.

Much appreciated you absolute legend. 

 

[Guest willies leg]

2 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

The main concern (and concern really isn't the right word here, but my brain isn't working right now so concern will have to do) I have is how much of those "old" batteries can be re-used/re-charged/re-built/ or (properly) re-cycled?

Case in point, what happens to a battery pack from a 2005 Toyota Prius, when it fails/is changed out? Does it become hazmat waste, can it be re-purposed or re-freshed and made to work like new again (and at what cost) or for that matter, let's say a revolutionary breakthrough in battery tech occurs next year, can the old 2005 Toyota Prius accept said new tech, or is it abandoned like so many old cellphones that the manufacturer won't support any more?

 

My 1985 Alfa GTV6 still runs on gas, and will forever (at least until gas runs out) but will my 2013 Honda CR-Z (it's a hybrid for those that don't know) be pushed into a forced obsolescence because it'll cost too much to support?

 

I'm not slagging EVs, I just don't know the forward path of older ones.

 

Tesla has battery recycling down:

https://www.tesla.com/support/sustainability-recycling

 

Elon Musk once said it's a lot more efficient to get the materials from batteries than from a mine, and over time mines will become less important.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by LogicalDrm
Pointless argument removed

[Radium_Angel]

24 minutes ago, willies leg said:

Tesla has battery recycling down:

I didn't mention them, but fair enough, what about the rest of the EV makers? 

[Bitter]

5 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

The main concern (and concern really isn't the right word here, but my brain isn't working right now so concern will have to do) I have is how much of those "old" batteries can be re-used/re-charged/re-built/ or (properly) re-cycled?

Case in point, what happens to a battery pack from a 2005 Toyota Prius, when it fails/is changed out? Does it become hazmat waste, can it be re-purposed or re-freshed and made to work like new again (and at what cost) or for that matter, let's say a revolutionary breakthrough in battery tech occurs next year, can the old 2005 Toyota Prius accept said new tech, or is it abandoned like so many old cellphones that the manufacturer won't support any more?

 

My 1985 Alfa GTV6 still runs on gas, and will forever (at least until gas runs out) but will my 2013 Honda CR-Z (it's a hybrid for those that don't know) be pushed into a forced obsolescence because it'll cost too much to support?

 

I'm not slagging EVs, I just don't know the forward path of older ones.

It's hard to break up quotes on mobile for me.

 

Consumables from the fossil fuel vehicle market is a huge pollution source too. Coolant, engine oil, brake fluid, old parts. And those fluids leak, like a lot. Your battery isn't going to leak quarts of oil on a parking lot and pollute local waterways. It may end up in a landfill and pollute a smaller area or get improperly recycled and pollute a small area, but overall I think that batteries are cleaner than fossil fuel engines over a 100,00p miles. Figure 5qts oil every 5000 miles for 100,000 miles. 25 gallons engine oil for the average car over 100,000 miles. Electric car has some coolant? Seems like a no brainer. I work with this nasty stuff, I see what they all leak and burn and what a mess it all makes. Just from the standpoint of working on them I think electric cars are better for ya.

[Bitter]

Getting closer.