Man dies in a "swatting" prank

[Orangeator]

16 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

So, you believe that if a police officer is instructed that a murder has occurred, with unknown individuals inside, from that point onward the police officer is weapons free to execute citizens at will without due process?  Because that's what you've basically said.  Since someone reported an incident within from that point onward that the police officer should face no legal expectation to be responsible for their actions.

Honestly, it's a loaded topic and I don't want to say yes or no. I believe it is entirely based on the individual  circumstances. But in this particular case, if I were a juror I wouldn't find him guilty. He went in being told this man murder his wife and children. I'd be antsy on the trigger as well. The true culprit is that fucking kid who just wrecked two families lives. 

[AshleyAshes]

7 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

He went in being told this man murder his wife and children. I'd be antsy on the trigger as well. The true culprit is that fucking kid who just wrecked two families lives. 

Right so... How did he know that man was the murderer?  After all, it turns out he WASN'T the murderer but just joe-shmoe citizen who was gunned down infront of his own house.  But, let's say there was a murder at the home... How does the responding police officer know that THAT is the killer?  Did they have a photo?  Maybe there were other people in the house.  This could be a wounded victim or a hostage escaping.  A police officer, who has been armed by the state and is acting as an agent for the state, has a legal responsibility to ensure the safety of the state's citizens, do they not?  You're arguing that, because a murder was REPORTED, that a police officer could no longer be expected to be responsible for their usage of lethal force upon citizens at that address.  Does this really sound acceptable to you?

[Taf the Ghost]

Guys that called in the fake SWAT are criminally liable for the death of the innocent man. They are also criminally liable to the PD, as well, as they caused their actions. They will spend a very long time in prison.

 

The Witchita Police also have some really serious questions to answer. They shot an unarmed man in cold blood.

[Linus_torvalds]

OMG, You, americans are so stupid!

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, mate_mate91 said:

OMG, You, americans are so stupid!

guilty

[Misanthrope]

I mean, life in prison wouldn't be unreasonable imo for the prankster but honestly not before the Cop: regardless of politics cops are trigger happy fucking maniacs in the US with 0 fucking accountability.

[dizmo]

2 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

Is anybody here a lawyer? Does anyone know John's handle? I'm trying to figure out if this is manslaughter or murder and whether mens rea comes into effect. 

I think it would be manslaughter. Involuntary manslaughter is someone causing a death without that being their intention. Which fits here more than frost degree (preemptive though/planning) or second degree (intentional) murder. 

1 hour ago, Noctus said:

I'd like to know how exactly did he get shot. If he answered the door and they just went PEW PEW, imo that's the fault of the law enforcement.... if not, i'd like details of the exact scenario he got full of holes.

 

note: I do agree swatting is retarded.

Apparently he reached into his waistband. 

1 hour ago, Energycore said:

Alright, yeah, I think both will receive charges for the personslaughter¹

  Reveal hidden contents

A crime theory

I will see myself out now

¹ I'm all in on gender neutrality AND footnotes and ain't no thing you can do about it! #superscriptisabovesubscriptliterallyandfigurativelyaswell

I hope you're joking But just in case, man refers to mankind. Not man as in male. 

1 hour ago, Wolther said:

I don’t know the details but the cop made the ultimate decision to end his life.. for seemingly no reason other than answering the door 

If you're trying to play it off as the caller wasn't at fault, you couldn't be more mistaken. Also the suspect apparently reached into his waistband, resulting in a shot being fired. Itchy trigger finger, sure, but if you look at the US and heard the call, not surprising. 

1 hour ago, Unimaginative Name said:

I think the bottom line is we don't know enough about what happened. Hopefully, a bodycam *gasp* or a dashcam might be able to catch something, but they won't be released until an internal investigation is over or charges are filed.

Engadget has an article with the footage. It's also on the police departments Facebook page. 

58 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

If the guy was unarmed, absolutely he should be charged for murder.

See last response below. 

36 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Failure on the SWAT team to identify a target.

 

It IS a federal crime, that's misuse of emergency services.

While that's true, the penalties are  often where near as severe as they need to be. This person needs to be charged with involuntary manslaughter and handed the full punishment available. The person who send him the address should be charged with conspiracy. 

35 minutes ago, Matu20 said:

Shit happens.

Thats a horrible stance to take. 

34 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

So, you believe that if a police officer is instructed that a murder has occurred, with unknown individuals inside, from that point onward the police officer is weapons free to execute citizens at will without due process?  Because that's what you've basically said.  Since someone reported an incident within from that point onward that the police officer should face no legal expectation to be responsible for their actions.

I believe that in the execution of their duty, officers have split seconds to make life and death decisions. They're not always right, but you cannot charge an officer for following his training. In this case it's reported the suspect reached into his waistband and was shot because of it. Unfortunate, absolutely, but judging what they'd been told on the call, the distance they were at, and (assuming it's true) him reaching into his waistband all lead to the outcome. 

[Matu20]

17 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Thats a horrible stance to take.

People are stupid so stupid is bound to happen.

[Energycore]

18 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I hope you're joking But just in case, man refers to mankind. Not man as in male. 

Only half joking

 

18 minutes ago, dizmo said:

While that's true, the penalties are  often where near as severe as they need to be. This person needs to be charged with involuntary manslaughter and handed the full punishment available. The person who send him the address should be charged with conspiracy. 

Conspiracy to murder someone sounds like the correct charge. The cop should see some amount of punishment as well though, I agree that it was kinda trigger happy to shoot before actually seeing a weapon.

[johnukguy]

American police are often poorly trained thugs, no wonder so many now will not call them for anything that isn't a life or death emergency, and even then. Those excusing the murders routinely carried out by US police need a short sharp dose of Karma themselves. It's this sort of obsequious idiocy that allows police states to develop.

[TheCherryKing]

50 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

American police are often poorly trained thugs, no wonder so many now will not call them for anything that isn't a life or death emergency, and even then. Those excusing the murders routinely carried out by US police need a short sharp dose of Karma themselves. It's this sort of obsequious idiocy that allows police states to develop.

The ineffective police are the reason why people want to own guns.

[Tech Enthusiast]

So,... everyone is the bad guy but the swat team that actually killed the guy?

 

I really wonder how dull america got once it comes to weapons. I mean your police is killing innocent people left right and center. Meanwhile in europe we have less attacks on police, less killed innocents and death to weapons is near zero in most countries.

 

Honestly don't understand why you don't just get rid of these "self defence only" things that do nothing but kill people.

[TheCherryKing]

Just now, Rattenmann said:

So,... everyone is the bad guy but the swat team that actually killed the guy?

 

I really wonder how dull america got once it comes to weapons. I mean your police is killing innocent people left right and center. Meanwhile in europe we have less attacks on police, less killed innocents and death to weapons is near zero in most countries.

 

Honestly don't understand why you don't just get rid of these "self defence only" things that do nothing but kill people.

Anything can be used as a weapon including vehicles. There has been plenty of vehicle attacks over there that consist of trucks, buses, and vans. 

[Tech Enthusiast]

1 minute ago, TheCherryKing said:

Anything can be used as a weapon including vehicles. There has been plenty of vehicle attacks over there that consist of trucks, buses, and vans. 

And a gun would give great "defence" to that. I am sure.

[TheCherryKing]

1 minute ago, Rattenmann said:

And a gun would give great "defence" to that. I am sure.

Guns cannot defend everything but guns aren't the only things that can be used as weapons! Taking away the guns will cause people to use other objects as weapons. Now people have resorted to vehicles, bombs, knifes, and possibly lethal gas. What's your solution? Ban everything?

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

4 minutes ago, TheCherryKing said:

Guns cannot defend everything but guns aren't the only things that can be used as weapons! Taking away the guns will cause people to use other objects as weapons. Now people have resorted to vehicles, bombs, knifes, and possibly lethal gas. What's your solution? Ban everything?

 

Ban the right to freedom

 

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[patrick3027]

I don't really understand what this whole swatting thing is (and I didn't bother readiung the thread to be honest), but isn't the most stupid guy in this wholme affair the policemen who shot an innocent guy unarmed opening his door?

[Sauron]

I hope everyone involved gets life in prison.

 

4 hours ago, patrick3027 said:

I don't really understand what this whole swatting thing is (and I didn't bother readiung the thread to be honest), but isn't the most stupid guy in this wholme affair the policemen who shot an innocent guy unarmed opening his door?

In 'murica you never know who is armed and the swat team expects a dangerous situation. It's still a mistake from the policeman but it's understandable.

[johnukguy]

2 hours ago, TheCherryKing said:

Anything can be used as a weapon including vehicles. There has been plenty of vehicle attacks over there that consist of trucks, buses, and vans. 

Do by all means post evidence that thousands are killed by police in Europe using vehicles. LMAO! What an utterly ridiculous argument.

[-TesseracT-]

Wait what, the police killed this man, but isnt it "innocent until proven guilty"? So the police had nothing to go off of except for this phone call. Wow, that is so idiotic, way beyond the idiocy you would usually find.

[Type 2501]

In my country, weasting police resources for a 'prank' like that is a crime.

 

3 hours ago, Pohernori said:

…Taking away the guns will cause people to use other objects as weapons. …

The point to take guns away from them is to give chance the police to handle the situation and avoid pulling the trigger untill there is no other choice.

 

Your theory is the same as "because you can't stop people abuse drugs so don't take away their heroin".

[suicidalfranco]

Now, what i would like to know is, would the streamer who gave the fake address to his harasser that lead to the death of this fellow would also be persecuted for murder

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

20 minutes ago, Type 2501 said:

In my country, weasting police resources for a 'prank' like that is a crime.

 

The point to take guns away from them is to give chance the police to handle the situation and avoid pulling the trigger untill there is no other choice.

 

Your theory is the same as "because you can't stop people abuse drugs so don't take away their heroin".

 

Good Point, but you're looking at the wrong person

 

The dude your looking for is @TheCherryKing

[Princess Luna]

Quote

28-year-old Andrew Finch of Wichita, Kansas, was killed last night by police in what appears to have been an incident of "swatting." Deputy police chief Troy Livingston told the Wichita Eagle that police were responding to a report of a murder and hostage situation at Finch's home when he came to the front door and was shot. 

I mean it must be awesome get to your front yard and get shot to death without even knowing what the hell is going on, as much as the fault is of the person who did the "trolling" and he should be arrested for manslaughter however I do want to point out to the absurd lack of skill and preparation of the police into dealing with the situation.

 

This was literally shoot first ask later and it shows how the police was there with the intention to kill above all things, I believe the officer who shot or the officer in charger of the situation should be equally penalized for lacking the professionalism enough to realize the situation was very different than in the 911 call claim.

[Type 2501]

2 hours ago, Pohernori said:

 

Good Point, but you're looking at the wrong person

 

The dude your looking for is @TheCherryKing

Oh, I am sorry for that, I have to admit I didn't read the whole thread.