The FCC just KILLED Net Neutrality

[Jon Jon]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Except for when it was different as has been pointed out before and can be seen in the multitudes of articles on the subject.

 

 

You may not have noticed a difference, but plenty of others have,  in fact to the point where google had to release a tool for measuring bandwidth in specific areas for youtube users as some where experiencing more trouble then others.  Also to the point where there was a court case regarding netflix and ISP throttling.  And to the point where, and I can't stress this enough, that the industry and the FCC had to fabricate 2.5 million letters and arguments to justify repealing it.  So much effort has gone into repealing it that to claim it made no difference is illogical.   

But has net neutrality necessarily curbed that in the last two years?

 

Cellular carriers seem to be completely exempt from net neutrality as well, with the allowance of data caps and throttling. That should be discussed.

 

I was reading about the fabricated comments and such as well, which should be answered to and handled. That was absolutely unnecessary.

 

That is the bigger side to this too, that there has been a lot of public outcry and it seems that people have been ignored and their voices fabricated. This wouldn't be the first time this has happened, but it's something that has to be addressed.

[Trik'Stari]

They have to publicly state they are doing it.

 

The chances are, nothing will happen any time soon except for lawsuits, and the democrats taking congress in 2018 which will be good for Net Neutrality and bad for a whole host of other reasons.

 

The ISP's aren't stupid. They're not going to implement anything now when everyone is watching. They'll do it when they think they can get away with it, and even then it won't matter because by then we'll likely have people in congress that will stop them (as well as doing a bunch of other stupid shit as usual regardless of which "party" is actually in power. Actually implementing any of this right now would result in such an enormous public backlash that even Trump would have to step in and put a stop to it (assuming he isn't just completely insane and politically suicidal. If there's one thing he actually gives a damn about it's how people perceive him, believe it or not.).

 

Even then, Congress would still step in because there's no way that the republicans in congress are that suicidal about their careers.

 

And even if all of this didn't happen and no one "in power" stopped them, the internet itself absolutely WILL fight back in some way shape or form. I honestly feel sorry for ANYONE working security for the big ISP's, because they're about to have an absolute shit storm of immeasurable proportions on their hands.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Jon Jon said:

But has net neutrality necessarily curbed that in the last two years?

 

 

Repealing a law because companies didn't abide by it is not a great foundation for any society.  If NN didn't curb ISP behaviour then the ISP's need to be held to account,  Not allowed to just keep going then get given a free pass.  This would be further evidence that the US is not a democracy but a corporate dictatorship.

[MaxBunny]

Finally! This is a huge win for the internet. You can't let people deter you from doing the right thing just because "peaceful groups will suddenly turn violent if they don't get their way". It needed to be repealed.

[Ithanul]

6 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Not all of them, OpenVPN over port 443. Good luck filtering that one out...

Or the fact the military utilize VPNs across those same lines and businesses do to, I don't think ISPs will be touching VPNs for awhile.  Unless we get a dumb nut that manages to pass some law or bill to outlaw VPNs for civilian personal use.

 

6 hours ago, wcreek said:

Sorry if I missed something but from the inception of the internet to now, has it not been a free market in America?

The ISPs like to state they are, but one) taxpayer dollars where used to build out dark fiber and infrastructure,  two) ISPs get taxpayer money incentives for so call programs, three) if you are lucky you get two choices in ISPs (I'm very unlucky in my area: either dail-up or sat out here: both not cheap for the speed).   I hardly call that a free market.

 

5 hours ago, Mooshi said:

Before NN was repealed: Comcast and Verizon offered services that didn't count against data limit so you'll use their platform.

 

After NN was repealed: Comcast and Verizon offered services that didn't count against data limit so you'll use their platform.

 

Yep. Xfinity TV and VZW's Go90 app still operates the same. NN is like jaywalking in the sense yes, it's there but rarely was enforced.

 

Ajit is still a shit.

Pretty much.  Heck, my ISP charges based on what video stream quality you want.  Heres my options: 70 bucks for 360P with 150GB cap, 90 bucks for 720P with 150GB cap, or 150 bucks for 1080P with 150GB cap.   ....It either that or the 45 buck dail-up.  My choices suck major.  Been like this before and during NN.  Probably stay the same even afterwards.

 

[MadyTehWolfie]

3 hours ago, AresKrieger said:

Um no they are not, if they were then net neutrality wasn't actually doing anything since it is currently still in effect

Probably -gets my tinfoil hat on- I'll be watching though! >_>

[TheCherryKing]

7 hours ago, Sypran said:

And nobody knows what would happen if we all decided it was a good idea to cut a finger off every 5 years, and feed it to the birds.
Guess we will have to wait and see why that be a bad idea.

That's a very bad example. There aren't any people out there that argue cutting off your fingers is a good thing. On the other hand net neutrality has arguments for both sides.

[MadyTehWolfie]

1 minute ago, TheCherryKing said:

That's a very bad example. There aren't any people out there that argue cutting off your fingers is a good thing. On the other hand net neutrality has arguments for both sides.

I'm still waiting for a legitimate argument against it. That being said I think his main point was less about the fingers and more in the fact we'd give birds the taste for human flesh.

[TheCherryKing]

8 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

I'm still waiting for a legitimate argument against it. That being said I think his main point was less about the fingers and more in the fact we'd give birds the taste for human flesh.

Net neutrality is an ineffective policy that claims to treat all data as equal. Instead of solving problems with monopolies it just regulates the monopoly. Proper competition is the best way to ensure ISP's don't get out of control. Instead of the government keeping ISP's in check the ISP's will keep each other in check. "Instead of giving a man a fish teach him how to fish"

[MaxBunny]

1 hour ago, TheCherryKing said:

Instead of the government keeping ISP's in check the ISP's will keep each other in check. "Instead of giving a man a fish teach him how to fish"

But..but..."MUH government/socialism wants what's best for me! And RePUHblicans are all evil and stupid and only my late night leftist talk shows are true!"

 

Also ISPs do want some form of net neutrality. Just not Obama's poorly functioning brand of it. Hyperboling it to hell doesn't do anyone any good even if it's funny just seeing how much stupidity really exists out there.

[TheCherryKing]

3 minutes ago, MaxBunny said:

But..but..."MUH government/socialism wants what's best for me! And RePUHblicans are all evil and stupid and only my late night leftist talk shows are true!"

 

Also ISPs do want some form of net neutrality. Just not Obama's poorly functioning brand of it. Hyperboling it to hell doesn't do anyone any good even if it's funny just seeing how much stupidity really exists out there.

The leftist talk shows and tech YouTubers are the biggest supporters of net neutrality. The sheeple will believe everything they say instead of doing research and making their own judgments. 

[Tz000]

I don't understand what all the crying is about... everyone is freaking out because they have to pay more or in some cases less for a service that requires a lot of work and infrastructure to deliver it to your homes you think the internet just floats around??  Heavy users should pay more it just makes sense....  Your cell phone data plans are no different you go over your 1 or 2 GB of data well you get charged its that easy....  here in Canada we pay based on our needs and the large ISP's have around 4 tiers of connection options.  You need shit loads of data and high speed connection well purchase the most expensive package, if your a old lady that sends emails 4 times a month and checks the news well get the lowest tier and save some money.  In most cases people will probably be paying the same amount as before and in a few cases maybe a bit more..  Eventually all the large ISP in the USA will just start undercutting each other until internet prices level out... People need to stop trying to look for the next thing to cry about... That's my 2 cents

[TenThousand]

Ironic that a democratic country has no control over their own internet. It's controlled by people who no one voted for.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, TenThousand said:

Ironic that a democratic country has no control over their own internet. It's controlled by people who no one voted for.

Considering the US is marked as Pervasive by the OpenNet Initiative. (Sauce)

Spoiler

 

29 minutes ago, Tz000 said:

I don't understand what all the crying is about... everyone is freaking out because they have to pay more or in some cases less for a service that requires a lot of work and infrastructure to deliver it to your homes you think the internet just floats around??  Heavy users should pay more it just makes sense....  Your cell phone data plans are no different you go over your 1 or 2 GB of data well you get charged its that easy....  here in Canada we pay based on our needs and the large ISP's have around 4 tiers of connection options.  You need shit loads of data and high speed connection well purchase the most expensive package, if your a old lady that sends emails 4 times a month and checks the news well get the lowest tier and save some money.  In most cases people will probably be paying the same amount as before and in a few cases maybe a bit more..  Eventually all the large ISP in the USA will just start undercutting each other until internet prices level out... People need to stop trying to look for the next thing to cry about... That's my 2 cents

This is more than just paying for the amount of usage, its also on having to pay ISPs an additional amount for another service (Completely unrelated to how much you use it.). Say I want to watch a 4k movie on Netflix even just once a month, I could have to pay an additional amount to not be throttled.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Guest
Shrunk the sauce link

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, TenThousand said:

Ironic that a democratic country has no control over their own internet. It's controlled by people who no one voted for.

And absolutely flabbergasting that there are people who think that this is ok and that the system (which hasn't worked for at least a decade and introduced the very problems that NN is supposed to solve) will somehow magically correct itself and make everything better.  

 

There is no competition therefore you can't rely on competition to keep the bastards honest.  

 

1 hour ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

I'm still waiting for a legitimate argument against it. That being said I think his main point was less about the fingers and more in the fact we'd give birds the taste for human flesh.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why, if NN is so pointless and ineffective,  did the ISP's spend $101M on it? and why fabricate all those letters? plus why has the FCC gone to such lengths to repeal it?  That's an awful lot of work for something that is supposedly inconsequential. 

[MaxBunny]

40 minutes ago, TenThousand said:

Ironic that a democratic country has no control over their own internet. It's controlled by people who no one voted for.

America is not a democracy. We'd appreciate people stop pretending that it is one.

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, MaxBunny said:

America is not a democracy. We'd appreciate people stop pretending that it is one.

Your government begs to differ:

 

https://www.state.gov/j/drl/democ/

 

[Guest]

Just now, mr moose said:

Your government begs to differ:

 

https://www.state.gov/j/drl/democ/

 

Ohh the amount of confusion that US gov sites bring. I'll just stick to calling it a Constitutional republic with an indirect-democracy (Well with how the system works, it might not even have an ounce of Democracy in many cases ) 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, tjcater said:

Ohh the amount of confusion that US gov sites bring. I'll just stick to calling it a Constitutional republic with an indirect-democracy (Well with how the system works, it might not even have an ounce of Democracy in many cases ) 

We all know the US is about as democratic as China, but at the end of the day the issues aren't going to go away arguing over semantics.

[Master Disaster]

I know @LinusTech

And @Slick

 

Usually don't cover political topics on the WAN show and i fully understand why they dont too but i really hope that Linus goes fucking ham on this on today's show and i really hope he tells everyone why NN was a good thing and why repealing it was a bad thing.

 

I don't believe people are defending this or that people genuinely believe that the corporation's won't exploit every little thing in their power to milk every customer dry.

 

Why exactly would Trump push so hard for this to happen if no one wanted to make use of it?

 

The entire reason this was implemented was because some ISPs were starting to throttle traffic they didn't like and charging extra for the privilege of unthrottling it, it literally was happening already. You think they pushed SOOO hard to kill NN so they could not start doing it again?

[Vode]

RIPaidcontent

 

Please dear EU consumer law, be on our side in these dark times once more. May thy hammer of overregulation strike the greedy hand of the corporate entities.

 

All hail EU bureocracy. ??

[gundamMC]

12 hours ago, trekkie1701c said:

And even if you somehow get around that (If you're willing to shell out, I suppose you could run OpenVPN on AWS or something and set up custom ports), packet inspection will still probably tell them what it is.  Or they just go with unknown traffic and throttle the hell out of it because it wasn't paid for in your plan.  Or sorry, they don't "optimize" the speed of the traffic or whatever bs they're going to sell it as.

But you could use proxies such as shadowsocks to encrypt and obfuscate packets into tls handshakes to other websites such as Google or the ISP's website itself. People in China have been doing this for years to get pass the firewall and there's also people using it to get "unlimited" data by obfuscating it to their service providers' domains. (Personally I've also been using it to bypass my school's blacklist)

 

Maybe we could use this to rip off some greedy ISPs?

[DeScruff]

5 hours ago, TheCherryKing said:

That's a very bad example. There aren't any people out there that argue cutting off your fingers is a good thing.

Maybe not on the corner of the internet you view.
You know the whole concept of Rule 34? In my experience whatever causes that rule to be true applies to more concepts. If there is a bad idea out there, someone will think its a good idea, and will defend it.
Ive read serious people trying to argue how lead in food is a good thing, and why we should use more asbestos.

- Fun Fact: Asbestos is still used in the USA while most other countries have banned it for use in construction. Reason why it isn't banned here? It cost too much and only save 200 lives a year according to the 5th Circuit Court in 1991.

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, Sypran said:

Maybe not on the corner of the internet you view.
You know the whole concept of Rule 34? In my experience whatever causes that rule to be true applies to more concepts. If there is a bad idea out there, someone will think its a good idea, and will defend it.
Ive read serious people trying to argue how lead in food is a good thing, and why we should use more asbestos.

- Fun Fact: Asbestos is still used in the USA while most other countries have banned it for use in construction. Reason why it isn't banned here? It cost too much and only save 200 lives a year according to the 5th Circuit Court in 1991.

Asbestos is still mined and used heavily in  Russia too.  they have a town named after it (or the other way around) and even their top doctor is advocating for it's "harmlessness".

 

 

[asus killer]

you guys in the US have a serious problem with lobbying by corporations and special interests. I guess it happens a bit everywhere but in the US is ridiculous. And then there's the level of politics there, sweet lord. And we all thought Bush Jr was an idiot and it could never go any worst.

 

 

it's impossible not to be amazed by this guy

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/verizon-vp-jokes-at-planting-a-brainwashed-fcc-chairman-ajit-pai-says-awesome/

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/smirking-fcc-chairman-posts-video-mocking-net-neutrality-supporters/

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/fcc-chairman-ajit-pai-claims-net-neutrality-hurts-the-sick-and-disabled/

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/11/ajit-pai-blames-cher-and-hulk-actor-for-ginning-up-net-neutrality-support/

 

http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-1202427723/

 

you couldn't make this shit up, no one would be this insane