The FCC just KILLED Net Neutrality

[DeScruff]

8 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

You do realize that the internet is absolutely essentiall in this day and age for things like keeping your job, getting through school/college and maintaining a live connection between emergency, safety and security devices.

 

 Voting on ISP's with your wallet is as moot as raising a flag protest in much of the US. 

Even just getting Job can require an internet connection..
I think 6 or the last 8 job applications Ive submitted had to be done online, and I can't tell you how many times Ive seen job listings online, that I'd have no idea were available otherwise...

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, TheCherryKing said:

Net neutrality does not, cannot, and will not stop all forms of corporate greed. Net neutrality requires all data to be treated equal so that certain sites can't be blocked or throttled or have a paywall. ISP's can raise the price of the ENTIRE internet service and throttle or block all sites if the user doesn't pay more. Technically that is treating data equally. 

If only more people had actual legitimate options for an ISP .

 

Also ISPs already have QoS in place to prioritize certain traffic types like voice data. In fact Title II enforcing all data to be treated equal is actually false, that's actually not what it says.

 

Quote

It shall be unlawful for any common carrier to make any unjust or unreasonable discrimination in charges, practices, classifications, regulations, facilities, or services for or in connection with like communication service, directly or indirectly, by any means or device, or to make or give any undue or unreasonable preference or advantage to any articular person, class of persons, or locality, or to subject any particular person, class of persons, or locality to any undue or unreasonable prejudice or disadvantage.

https://transition.fcc.gov/Reports/1934new.pdf (page 36)

 

Therefore it is not unreasonable to ensure that a subscribed service has a level of guaranteed quality to make it usable like in the case of a voice call, that is a minimum requirement to make that work so it must be maintained. Another example would be if 1080p video streaming required a minimum of 9Mbps to work then it is not unreasonable to put quality of service in place to ensure that, however it would be unreasonable to only put that in place for a single video streaming service.

 

Title II does not prevent ISPs from treating data differently and prioritizing it when necessary, it prevents them from being selective about it.

 

There was another statement I saw someone say earlier, and I forget who, that at the time I didn't bother to reply to and that was the statement that ISPs being classified as common carriers somehow made them the property or under the control of the government, that is also not true. Not that I'm surprised some people actually believe that though.

 

And you know one of the other reason why American ISPs, who are cable companies, are not investing heavily in fibre and modernizing internet services.

Quote

Further, the Act gives telephone companies the option of providing video programming on a common carrier basis or as a conventional cable television operator. If it chooses the former, the telephone company will face less regulation but will also have to comply with FCC regulations requiring what the Act refers to as "open video systems".

So they could transition away from cable services however that would also mean giving up the freedom from regulation they enjoy while continuing to use cable. Remove the cable exemption from the act and you'll quickly see investment in much cheaper to maintain fibre services that is more reliable and more versatile.

 

But yes sure, Title II did not address or fix some of the core issues of internet services in America but it's not a bad thing either, not compared to not having it anyway. Something better is required.

[asus killer]

11 hours ago, Hellion said:

Mankind certainly never existed before the internet was invented, right?

 

There's a reason it's called a sacrifice.

 

More people need to prioritize principle over convenience. If this was truely as big of an issue as it's been made out to be americans would realize that.

https://gizmodo.com/internet-access-is-now-a-basic-human-right-1783081865

 

Internet Access Is Now A Basic Human Right

That’s according to the United Nations Human Rights Council, which passed a non-binding resolution in June that condemns countries that intentionally take away or disrupt its citizens’ internet access.

 

The US on the forefront of civilization i guess.

[Hellion]

23 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

You do realize that the internet is absolutely essentiall in this day and age for things like keeping your job, getting through school/college and maintaining a live connection between emergency, safety and security devices.

 

 Voting on ISP's with your wallet is as moot as raising a flag protest in much of the US. 

A personal internet connection is optional. Those that require access to services that apparently can't be accessed other ways or due to laziness can do so through the connection provided by these institutions.

 

Like I said, a sacrifice will not be convenient. That's why it's called a sacrifice.

 

Start cutting internet connections just like cable TV and ISP's will feel it. It can be argued that it was a major contributor in why net neutrality no longer exists in the US. ISP's want the freedom to replace the lost revenue with the same failed packages that made consumers leave cable TV subscriptions. 

[Hellion]

19 hours ago, TheCherryKing said:

Net neutrality does not, cannot, and will not stop all forms of corporate greed. Net neutrality requires all data to be treated equal so that certain sites can't be blocked or throttled or have a paywall. ISP's can raise the price of the ENTIRE internet service and throttle or block all sites if the user doesn't pay more. Technically that is treating data equally. 

What does this have to do with my post?

 

I'm well aware of what net neutrality is.

 

My point is that the reason it was repealed was because there was no real push back by amuricans crying about it since they would rather complain on the internet then actually partake in actions that send a real message. 

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, Hellion said:

A personal internet connection is optional. Those that require access to services that apparently can't be accessed other ways or due to laziness can do so through the connection provided by these institutions.

 

Like I said, a sacrifice will not be convenient. That's why it's called a sacrifice.

 

Start cutting internet connections just like cable TV and ISP's will feel it. It can be argued that it was a major contributor in why net neutrality no longer exists in the US. ISP's want the freedom to replace the lost revenue with the same failed packages that made consumers leave cable TV subscriptions. 

huh?  there is only one internet connection and only one ISP for a lot of Americans, you either have the internet or you don't.  You can't split one connection into two categories and claim you are going without the "personal connection" to prove a point. As has been pointed out already, internet is essential, unless you consider being able to work, complete school work and keep your emergency/security devices active as a mere "convenience"?  

 

 

[Hellion]

12 hours ago, asus killer said:

https://gizmodo.com/internet-access-is-now-a-basic-human-right-1783081865

 

Internet Access Is Now A Basic Human Right

That’s according to the United Nations Human Rights Council, which passed a non-binding resolution in June that condemns countries that intentionally take away or disrupt its citizens’ internet access.

 

The US on the forefront of civilization i guess.

You mean the same united nations that the US ignores on a regular basis?

 

Your example is a contradiction to what just took place. 

[Hellion]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

huh?  there is only one internet connection and only one ISP for a lot of Americans, you either have the internet or you don't.  You can't split one connection into two categories and claim you are going without the "personal connection" to prove a point. As has been pointed out already, internet is essential, unless you consider being able to work, complete school work and keep your emergency/security devices active as a mere "convenience"?  

 

 

You used the examples of "work" and "school" to claim internet is a necessity.

 

While that may be true any need for these connections can be accessed through your job or campus.

 

Sure it may not be convenient to do your banking in person or submit your taxes by snail mail but these are still very much possibilities and what many seniors that are not tech savvy do.

 

Life without a personal connection on your phone or computer is very much possible.

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, Hellion said:

You mean the same united nations that the US ignores on a regular basis?

 

Your example is a contradiction to what just took place. 

Access to services from VA requires internet access now, which is a good thing since if you live in a non major city or long travel time away from them having to go in is rather difficult.

 

Most services now either have primary access method as the internet or some the only.

 

It's not realistic to say go without internet in a society that is built around it, has nothing to do with the internet being entertainment or a luxury it's an essential necessity now.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Hellion said:

You used the examples of "work" and "school" to claim internet is a necessity.

 

While that may be true any need for these connections can be accessed through your job or campus.

 

Sure it may not be convenient to do your banking in person or submit your taxes by snail mail but these are still very much possibilities and what many seniors that are not tech savvy do.

 

Life without a personal connection on your phone or computer is very much possible.

 

It is almost universally recognized that without a home internet connection of some description you cannot complete a university degree, apply for many jobs, and so on.  I honestly don't know why you would choose such a hard position to defend.

 

You cannot be at school for all the hours required to complete the course load for many degree's, you cannot look for work from a work you don't have, if you are self employed like many thousands are you cannot just use someone else's internet. If you have a security device or emergency device connected through the internet you cannot just turn those things off.

 

It's almost like you have no real world experience.

 

 

[Hellion]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Access to services from VA requires internet access now, which is a good thing since if you live in a non major city or long travel time away from them having to go in is rather difficult.

 

Most services now either have primary access method as the internet or some the only.

 

It's not realistic to say go without internet in a society that is built around it, has nothing to do with the internet being entertainment or a luxury it's an essential necessity now.

VA?

 

Give me examples of daily tasks essential to your survival that can only be completed via internet.

 

As I've already stated, this argument contradicts the FCC's decision to repeal net neutrality making it no a utility.

[leadeater]

Just now, Hellion said:

VA?

 

Give me examples of daily tasks essential to your survival that can only be completed via internet.

 

As I've already stated, this argument contradicts the FCC's decision to repeal net neutrality making it no a utility.

Veterans Association, for things like access health care through them. So you can stay alive or learn to walk, or get access to retraining to re-enter the work force.

[leadeater]

Just now, Hellion said:

Give me examples of daily tasks essential to your survival that can only be completed via internet.

There's more to life than just surviving because if we want to gown that path then you don't need electricity or gas.

[Lurick]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

There's more to life than just surviving because if we want to gown that path then you don't need electricity or gas.

Don't need a static house either, nomads lived for many thousands of years moving from place to place.

Money isn't needed either, since people did without it for a long time, they just bartered.

Don't need no transportation via car, plane, train, boat, etc. "society" survived without those confangled things too.

[mynameisjuan]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

home internet connection of some description you cannot complete a university degree

I mean its not like school libraries, public libraries or public dorm PCs exist right.....Just...no....you are blowing up how much an internet connection is needed. 

[Hellion]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

 

It is almost universally recognized that without a home internet connection of some description you cannot complete a university degree, apply for many jobs, and so on.  I honestly don't know why you would choose such a hard position to defend.

 

You cannot be at school for all the hours required to complete the course load for many degree's, you cannot look for work from a work you don't have, if you are self employed like many thousands are you cannot just use someone else's internet. If you have a security device or emergency device connected through the internet you cannot just turn those things off.

 

It's almost like you have no real world experience.

 

 

As I've said many times a sacrifice is not going to be convenient.

 

No one is forcing you take take a university degree. There's no reason why you can't look for a job the old fashioned way by foot and newspaper.

 

Security systems are optional and those that require an internet connection even more so.

 

I'm not arguing practical. A sacrifice is not practical.

 

You are exactly the type of person I'm referring to. You would rather be lazy and do nothing then stand up for what you claim to believe in. Look what bitching online and signing online petitions accomplished. Clearly that did nothing. 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, mynameisjuan said:

I mean its not like school libraries, public libraries or public dorm PCs exist right.....Just...no....you are blowing up how much an internet connection is needed. 

Not everyone lives on campus or in a hostel with internet, some people (many still live at home while studying)  Fuck me some even study by correspondance.  Not blowing anything up.

[Lurick]

1 minute ago, Hellion said:

As I've said many times a sacrifice is not going to be convenient.

 

No one is forcing you take take a university degree. There's no reason why you can't look for a job the old fashioned way by foot and newspaper.

 

Security systems are optional and those that require an internet connection even more so.

 

I'm not arguing practical. A sacrifice is not practical.

 

You are exactly the type of person I'm referring to. You would rather be lazy and do nothing then stand up for what you claim to believe in. Look what bitching online and signing online petitions accomplished. Clearly that did nothing. 

Are you head on pants insane?

I guarantee you the kind of companies who require a degree to get a job at you will NOT find it in a newspaper and via walk-in interview.

Name me one company that still places job advertisements in the newspaper and lets you walk in with a resume for an interview while needing a college degree.

[Hellion]

8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Veterans Association, for things like access health care through them. So you can stay alive or learn to walk, or get access to retraining to re-enter the work force.

I'm not going to pretend to know how this works in amurica but veterans here can access services through the government by walk in locations and fill the paperwork out by hand. In fact, the majority do since they are senior citizens that don't even know how to navigate a web browser. 

[mr moose]

Just now, Hellion said:

As I've said many times a sacrifice is not going to be convenient.

 

No one is forcing you take take a university degree. There's no reason why you can't look for a job the old fashioned way by foot and newspaper.

 

Security systems are optional and those that require an internet connection even more so.

 

I'm not arguing practical. A sacrifice is not practical.

 

You are exactly the type of person I'm referring to. You would rather be lazy and do nothing then stand up for what you claim to believe in. Look what bitching online and signing online petitions accomplished. Clearly that did nothing. 

 

Mny of the things I listed are not conveniences nor have anything to do with being lazy,  whether you like it or not, Internet is already considered an essential necessity.

 

even the German high court worked this out n 2013 and teh french government in 2009:

https://www.theverge.com/2013/1/25/3914498/german-judge-says-internet-is-essential-to-life

 

[mynameisjuan]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Not everyone lives on campus or in a hostel with internet, some people (many still live at home while studying)  Fuck me some even study by correspondance.  Not blowing anything up.

Well you have to show up to class correct? Why can you not use the campus PCs after or before class since you are on campus. Its far from impossible as you say. 

[Hellion]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

There's more to life than just surviving because if we want to gown that path then you don't need electricity or gas.

Your missing the point.

 

Are you honestly telling me that you're so helplessly reliant on the internet that you couldn't survive like mankind did 15-20 years ago without it?

 

If you had no internet for a month would you drop dead only to be found hunched over your modem? 

[Lurick]

Just now, mynameisjuan said:

Well you have to show up to class correct? Why can you not use the campus PCs after or before class since you are on campus. Its far from impossible as you say. 

All online classes are actually pretty popular for a lot of working adults, especially those not in the larger cities, so you don't have to show up to class and there might not even be a physical campus anywhere nearby.

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, Hellion said:

Your missing the point.

 

Are you honestly telling me that you're so helplessly reliant on the internet that you couldn't survive like mankind did 15-20 years ago without it?

 

If you had no internet for a month would you drop dead only to be found hunched over your modem? 

No, but you are also missing the point and magnitude of the sacrifice you are suggesting.

 

We're not talking about no internet for a month, what if you have no access to internet for years through your formative education years. What if you are disabled and have difficulty with travel.

 

You can't use the past to justify now because in the past access to services wasn't primarily through internet access. Now days how do you know where your services are located, when they are open, what you are entitled to.

 

This is now, it is a now issue and you need to look at it with that in mind not with the past because in the past things were different.

[Hellion]

6 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Are you head on pants insane?

I guarantee you the kind of companies who require a degree to get a job at you will NOT find it in a newspaper and via walk-in interview.

Name me one company that still places job advertisements in the newspaper and lets you walk in with a resume for an interview while needing a college degree.

Okay, so we've established that you prioritize convenience and laziness over standing up for yourself. 

 

You have no grounds to complain about the FCC ruling then.