Tesla Unveils - Semi Truck and next-gen Roadster

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

ELV in Australia.  I believe as soon as you go over 50 volts you need to be registered to work on it.    You can claim that the device is an appliance and there are ways around said regulations,  However should any fire happen you would in the poo regardless (and without insurance in most cases).

It's 50v here too, that's why POE is generally 48v. That regulation is more around servicing the device though rather than operating it, hence why we can flip 230v breakers.

[mr moose]

Just now, leadeater said:

It's 50v here too, that's why POE is generally 48v. That regulation is more around servicing the device though rather than operating it, hence why we can flip 230v breakers.

Was more thinking along the lines of product liability.   Based on the terminology of voltage stages that is.

[Egg-Roll]

34 minutes ago, dizmo said:

They guaranteed the price didn't they?

Nope, look at model 3, they dont even honor positions anymore, just those who are willing to pay top buck get firsties, and you're in their geological favorite.... Basically if they said the semi would cost $500,000 but that's the base model and to add a cup holder is $10,000 while they still kept to the price, but are you really going to buy that barebones vehicle? While, yes they keep true to their price, they (worst than others at times) make the said car unbearable to be in considering the name.

 

35 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Haha, I don't think that argument makes much sense at all. That's like saying people that own pick ups, and aren't always carrying something in the back shouldn't own them. The point is you can carry something when you need, just like you can drive fast when you want. Plus the inside of a super car is simply nicer than sitting inside something that's $35k. My last gf's dad gave her a Bentley for a week and it was a very nice experience.

Sure it does, a boat on dry land cant be used as a boat, just like how a supercar cant be super on normal roads. While both could be used minimally to me anyways it would defeat the purpose in owning one. I also think your confused between the difference of a supercar and a luxury car While Bentley did bring out a sports car it's far from super, also i do hope a Bentley is far more comfortable than a 35k car else i would demand my money back lol...

 

45 minutes ago, dizmo said:

If it's $1,000,000 that's...a bitter pill to swallow. I can't wait to see what they do end up costing though. I imagine companies can get rebates and incentives for them as well, bringing down the overall actual cost. I imagine they also incorporated oil costs, maintenance, etc. That might add up pretty quickly as well.

In a post a little up or on page 5 i put about 450-700 thousand for the tesla based on math and numbers given

 

25 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I can see Tesla starting to trip over electrical safety laws in some countries soon as they try to push more power in to their batteries faster, not that new regulations and safety standards couldn't solve this but I don't doubt specific regulations are going to have to be created at some point for EV cars and charging.

 

I think Luke has the right idea multiple cables and connections, perhaps a automated process using a mechanical arm setup?

 

11 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

What you are saying is that Tesla will be footing the bill to 'remodel' the majority of truck stops in the United States AND all their own current charging stations. 'Refueling' the Tesla Truck would need to be a business with a legitimate market, electricity demand. That's the only way it would really work. This infrastructure, open market or via Tesla alone, translates to some cost for 'refueling' your truck.

 

I don't think General Motors builds semi trucks? Even if they did, are you saying that freight hasn't been figured until this Tesla concept was released? 

 

Those batteries are not expensive and even if they magically last 15 years they will very expensive to replace. If a normal semi truck travels 50k miles a year that would be around 25k usd for a year of diesel. 

 

900,000 USD extra for a Tesla truck is NEVER going to be covered in fuel savings. Even if Tesla maintenance/replacement parts and electricity costs are 0... which we both know they won't be.

 

Diesel could triple in price and STILL make the Telsa Truck look impractical, financially. 

Have you seen their yearly quarters? Besides all they need to really do is in the outskirts is create a custom tesla powerwall, or have you forgotten they do that? https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/commercial Minimal restructuring has to be done really, granted i have not looked into much of the truck stops in the USA but here in canada the ones i know can support a few charging stations w/o interference. Also by using internal companies they could offer 7kwh prices and possibly pull it off with minimal costs.

 

You're missing the point with GM (the Gas Company), they killed the EV 1, they created the Volt to go against Tesla, and the Bolt was Gov forced and even that is hilariously bad compared to the Model 3. So perhaps it's a good thing they are not in the electric truck industry, because they would suck at it too.

 

You're rehashing what i have said about pricing, i wouldn't expect a casual trucker to buy a tesla, i would expect someone who would use it at least 5 days a week all day. Plus do you even know any truck drivers that just do 50k a year? Not even the local delivery drivers do "only" 50k, they can do closer to 80, at which time if they need a 5th wheel truck a Tesla starts looking very enticing, due to it's 0 downtime in shops.

 

Once again you took my initial number and assume it's correct... the highest i got was just under 700, for which someone who uses their truck 6 days a week would benefit after 2 years. Based on a 6 day 10 hour use a Tesla truck would cost about 50,000 over the 2 years assuming 200 miles driven. The truck with 200K 2017 Lonestar at 2.5 per gal it would've cost them 77,000. Now remember this, that 50,000 is the only expense on the truck till new batteries are needed, and as i stated above hidden amounts of power can extend battery life. Even if a new battery pack was to cost 120k or even 150k the lack of downtime and maintenance is literally priceless. the second a truck is down for a day it's losing money.

 

I disagree if Diesel was to triple you're looking at a truck that does 100k go from 35k in fuel costs to 105k in fuel costs. Right now Tesla has a hard market to enter if prices triple tesla will be favoured.

 

38 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

This is where I feel like I have to remind you that the model 3 is still years away from being filled. Sure, some have been delivered, but realistically the model three is still classified as 'future' or 'on the way'.

 

This is also where I feel like I have to remind you that looking ahead and respecting the environment is a good thing, but there are also people out there who are realistic. The answer can't always be 'one day' technology will xyz.

 

We live right now.

Years? Last update they were 8 months behind and was caused by software for the very thing that powers the vehicle. Do you want to sit on a battery that could launch you to the moon, without any presumed life of course. Truth is this is a pattern with Tesla, The Semi's will be no different, they should be arrive to clients come late 2020, Tesla Roadster 2021.

 

The model 3 should be in full production by summer or close to it. But that's better than having a massive recall, or would you like the future to fail as bad as all the other big 3 (really only 2 ever do recalls on a yearly bases in large numbers it seems). The reason why Model 3 isn't in full production isn't due to lack of but for the safety of, if i have to wait 2 years for a car i really want i'll wait.

[aubryscully]

@dizmo Wasn’t intending for it to come across in that manner. Its just that I’m such a huge LMG fan so it would be a bit of a bucket list thing to have my *forum* name called out in one of their vids

[dizmo]

1 minute ago, aubryscully said:

@dizmo Wasn’t intending for it to come across in that manner. Its just that I’m such a huge LMG fan so it would be a bit of a bucket list thing to have my *forum* name called out in one of their vids

Haha, I was just giving you a hard time

[PlayStation 2]

We're kinda stretching the meaning of "Tech News", no?

[aubryscully]

8 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

We're kinda stretching the meaning of "Tech News", no?

How would this NOT qualify as tech news?

[PlayStation 2]

Just now, aubryscully said:

How would this NOT qualify as tech news?

How would it?

There's little about it that's genuinely something "new" or much around tech with it.

The truck and roadster runs on electric, cool. All of us here know the point of Tesla by this point.

[Egg-Roll]

5 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

How would it?

There's little about it that's genuinely something "new" or much around tech with it.

The truck and roadster runs on electric, cool. All of us here know the point of Tesla by this point.

Well, people (stupid ones) kept claiming trucks can never become electric and can only ever be fossil powered. Therefore this is tech, if they can truly pull it off it would be in the eyes of those who think that way a feat of an impossible nature.

 

If i told someone today that Tesla has announced a electric truck there would be literally an hour of whining about how it's not going to work. Instead I'm keeping my mouth shut and when they see the ugly thing on the road they'll be so confused  And yes i think it's ugly but not as ugly as the Nikola One which btw i think the company is a total scam riding off of Tesla's first name. Guy claims 5 start ups but only displays one company with 2 names, claims 5000 trucks will be built via 3rd party, yet claims has 7000 units on order.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1107560_nikola-one-hydrogen-range-extended-electric-truck-to-be-unveiled-tonight

https://www.trucks.com/2016/12/01/nikola-one-hydrogen-fuel-cell-electric-semi-truck-debuts/

Not to mention the lease price (lowest)+30% of the final lease price is around 500k. Sure free fuel for 6 years but hydrogen fuel cells are far harder to get than electricity and can be monopolized 

 

Seriously tho Tesla should of hired Professor Luigi Colani to design the truck...

[handymanshandle]

41 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

How would it?

There's little about it that's genuinely something "new" or much around tech with it.

The truck and roadster runs on electric, cool. All of us here know the point of Tesla by this point.

Yeah really there's not new tech in the truck it's more or less scaling up what already existed for use in something that's got a different purpose. iirc there's basically 4 Model X engines in the truck?

[handymanshandle]

Just now, Egg-Roll said:

Well, people (stupid ones) kept claiming trucks can never become electric and can only ever be fossil powered. Therefore this is tech, if they can truly pull it off it would be in the eyes of those who think that way a feat of an impossible nature.

 

If i told someone today that Tesla has announced a electric truck there would be literally an hour of whining about how it's not going to work. Instead I'm keeping my mouth shut and when they see the ugly thing on the road they'll be so confused  And yes i think it's ugly but not as ugly as the Nikola One which btw i think the company is a total scam riding off of Tesla's first name. Guy claims 5 start ups but only displays one company with 2 names, claims 5000 trucks will be built via 3rd party, yet claims has 7000 units on order.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1107560_nikola-one-hydrogen-range-extended-electric-truck-to-be-unveiled-tonight

https://www.trucks.com/2016/12/01/nikola-one-hydrogen-fuel-cell-electric-semi-truck-debuts/

Not to mention the lease price (lowest)+30% of the final lease price is around 500k. Sure free fuel for 6 years but hydrogen fuel cells are far harder to get than electricity and can be monopolized 

 

Seriously tho Tesla should of hired Professor Luigi Colani to design the truck...

Well the range of the Tesla Semi isnt exactly great and right now it doesn't have a sleeper configuration. No doubt give it more time, I can see trucks becoming EV but frankly I doubt the real benefit of making commercial trucks go electric unless the materials are fairly and cleanly sourced and transported. Which could possibly be worse for the environment than the production and operation of a regular diesel truck 

[AdmiralMeowmix]

Update

 

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/932113939181092864

[79wjd]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

And the old one doesn't use electric drive by wire steering, hydraulic is at least still mechanically connected.

The 2015 Cayman (flat 6) also has electric steering.

[mr moose]

58 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

How would it?

There's little about it that's genuinely something "new" or much around tech with it.

The truck and roadster runs on electric, cool. All of us here know the point of Tesla by this point.

You could make the same point about any pc part not being news because it's nothing new, it still computes, produces an image, prints a picture or sends data, just scaled up, improved, etc.  I mean we all know the point of pc's by this point.

 

 

[ThePointblank]

Tesla has some big names lined up for their new truck:

 

Loblaws, the largest food distributor chain in Canada has an order in for 25 of the Tesla semi-truck:

 

http://business.financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/loblaw-says-it-ordered-25-tesla-electric-trucks-wants-fully-electric-fleet-by-2030

 

Quote

MONTREAL — Loblaw Companies Ltd. says it is among the first purchasers of Tesla’s new electric truck.

 

Canada’s largest supermarket chain (TSX:L) says it has pre-ordered 25 of the vehicles called the Tesla Semi.

 

“It’s part of our commitment to electrify our fleet,” spokeswoman Catherine Thomas said.

 

Earlier this month, Loblaw committed to have a fully electric fleet as part of the company’s commitment to reduce its carbon footprint by 2030.

 

That would involve adding 350 zero-emission vehicles and more than 2,500 trailers to the fleet.

 

The Ontario-based grocer said removing diesel from its transport trucks and refrigerated trailers could reduce more than 94,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions annually, the equivalent of removing more than 20,000 cars from the road.

 

By 2030, Loblaw expects to have reduced emissions from electricity use by 35 per cent, transportation by 25 per cent, and refrigerants by 50 per cent.

 

First deliveries of the Tesla trucks are expected in 2019.

That's on top of the early commitment from Wal-Mart for 15 trucks, of which 5 are for the US, 10 are for Canada.

 

Another major customer is JB Hunt, which is one of the largest American trucking companies, and is big in intermodal (containerized) cargo. JB Hunt has not indicated how many they were buying.

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, wcreek said:

Well the range of the Tesla Semi isnt exactly great and right now it doesn't have a sleeper configuration. No doubt give it more time, I can see trucks becoming EV but frankly I doubt the real benefit of making commercial trucks go electric unless the materials are fairly and cleanly sourced and transported. Which could possibly be worse for the environment than the production and operation of a regular diesel truck 

The first one looks like a sleeper to me, but so limited info it could be used for "more aerodynamics" looking closer...

 

I personally would be ecstatic if Tesla brought out the Tesla Garbage Truck, because they dominate the city streets. Tho i can see a use for these guys esp within cities or around them where pollution is top concern.

 

As for clean parts, if the truck is made at the gigafactory it will be running on green power, the batteries should be made there too and so they are as green as possible.

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/elon_musk_the_future_we_re_building_and_boring

 

[ThePointblank]

56 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Well the range of the Tesla Semi isnt exactly great and right now it doesn't have a sleeper configuration. No doubt give it more time, I can see trucks becoming EV but frankly I doubt the real benefit of making commercial trucks go electric unless the materials are fairly and cleanly sourced and transported. Which could possibly be worse for the environment than the production and operation of a regular diesel truck 

The thing is, I imagine the Tesla truck will initially appeal to certain customers, primarily fleet customers who run shorter routes delivering cargo from a distribution point to an end user.

 

I can easily see a lot of intermodal trucking firms being interested here, as they run from a port or a rail yard ferrying containers to customers and back for relatively short distances. They start their day in the morning, run to the port and rail yard to grab a trailer with a container, drop that off with a customer, pickup a loaded or empty container from another customer and run that back to the yard, unhitch that, and repeat the process. Every time they return to the yard, they could stop for 10-15 minutes to quickly top off the batteries throughout the day.

 

You are also seeing another type of fleet customer interested; those who can control both ends of the shipping, namely grocery chains. If they are running from a distribution center, they can charge while waiting at the distribution center for a trailer to be loaded, and then they can drive off to the store, where they can charge there as well while waiting for a trailer to be unloaded before heading back.

 

I am also reminded of how the trucking industry works from my days working in logistics and warehousing; trucking companies when they arrive to either load or unload from a customer usually give the customer a certain amount of time for the truck and the driver to be sitting there while being loaded or unloaded; this is called free time. The usual allotted time if the entire truck is booked for one shipment is 2 hours at the destination. Beyond that, you can be dinged anywhere from $50-100 per hour by the trucking company if you don't load or unload within that timeframe.

 

I've personally seen a full 53ft dry van loaded up within 45 minutes if the cargo was palletized to begin with at most facilities if the warehouse staff are diligent, the cargo is ready and waiting on the dock, and they have all of their equipment working. If most warehouses start installing chargers at their loading bays, and charge the truck drivers to use them (to recoup cost of electricity and installation costs), a truck that is waiting could be charging while the loading or unloading takes place.

[Cookybiscuit]

3 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

We're kinda stretching the meaning of "Tech News", no?

Tesla pay an army of shills to spam garbage about their products on every loosely related place they can so they can inflate their stock price. Every Youtube comment section is the same canned "omg lmao coal engines so bad tesla so clean so fast so gud imma go buy a tesla right now guys" response being spammed 900 times by people with no avatar and a generic name.

 

 

[d-kressjr]

 

I was sold....

[ravenshrike]

On 11/18/2017 at 6:25 AM, leadeater said:

If it's 1000kWh and a 30 minute charge gives it 80% charge then holy shit that's 1,600kWh input, that's a heck of a lot of safety required and are we also now expecting truck drivers to be electrical engineers for safety reasons? Maybe this is creating the modern day Gas station attendant, "I plug trucks in to charge" lol.

Level three clothing for sure. Good gig if you can get it though.

 

 

http://www.highvoltageinfo.com/electrical-arc-flash-clothing.php

[Drak3]

16 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Well, people (stupid ones) kept claiming trucks can never become electric and can only ever be fossil powered. Therefore this is tech, if they can truly pull it off it would be in the eyes of those who think that way a feat of an impossible nature.

Knowing the short comings of all previously proposed solutions that made it to prototyping, limitations of battery technology, and how electricity acts, we will never have an EV truck that is 100% viable. The closest we will ever get are hybrids that use engines running on either low pollutant or highly efficient fuels.

 

 

[Colty]

On 11/18/2017 at 4:35 AM, mariushm said:

These trucks won't charge from 110v mains sockets and 10-16A current (less than 2kWh charge) ... they'll probably need 480v AC and 25-50A or something like that, big chunky connectors and big thick cables.

Do you think every wallmart warehouse out there, or every distribution place will pull 100kV lines to the place (paying maybe thousands to tens of thousands of dollars in fees) just to help truckers from random companies fill up their trucks?

Sure, there may be some over night slow charge mode, in which you could connect the truck to regular 110v / 230v mains plugs and have it slowly top up over night, useful for some truck stop or to keep the truck warm

 

Some argue the trucks will come back to the main company yard where they'll charge over night but again... let's say you have 10-20 trucks all charging over night ... that can still a significant load on local power grid.

As someone who worked Cap 2 at walmart (unloading trucks, stocking shelves, ect) the 30 minute charge for 400 miles is what will be used most likely. Those things sit for 30 minutes to an hour, Tesla's trucks are perfect for Walmart. 

[Egg-Roll]

4 hours ago, Drak3 said:

limitations of battery technology, and how electricity acts, we will never have an EV truck that is 100% viable. The closest we will ever get are hybrids that use engines running on either low pollutant or highly efficient fuels.

Sounds like a gas lover, disbeliever, and famous last words all in one. All seriousness I've pointed out how the miles and charge times meet with regulations therefore almost no loss in time, and if loss is incurred it's minimal.

I talked to a x-trucker today they even said what has been said here:

-while long hauls are likely out of the question for now in the future who knows.

-the current orders are for depot runs and trucks show up to depots several times a day.

-these trucks appeal to majority of the drivers.

-with uncertain prices no one will know who can actually afford it

 

The closest we will get are hybrids?

Seriously someone should tell tesla to stop producing cars then, and drop all future developments including the semi and roadster! Let the masses know all tesla's are really quite hybrids, they are all a scam! Every Tesla owner must demand a refund! /s

Seriously, anything coming from those gigafactories (currently 1 afaik, idk about the other) are literally the cleanest car one could drive. As long as the trucks and charging stations run on renewable energy you will find a lot of big companies willing to lose those 30 minutes every 400-500 miles, and remember that's under "max" load, if you're carrying light stuff in the back it's quite possible to go 800+ miles on a charge, how the hell do you think the roadster is going to do it? Using last gen batteries? 

 

Seriously if hybrids are the future why are transit authorities testing/running fully electric buses?

https://www.yrt.ca/en/about-us/resources/ASP2017/ASP2017_07-2017-ASP-Goals.pdf

http://winnipegtransit.com/en/major-projects/electric-bus-demonstration/

https://stalbert.ca/city/transit/electric-buses/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-to-test-electric-bus-1.2901711

https://www.cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/New_Flyer_Industries_XE40

 

 

Seriously tho like i said BC/Ontario has the infrastructure to handle it, so we are likely to be the first to see the trucks.

[Drak3]

25 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

All seriousness I've pointed out how the miles and charge times meet with regulations therefore almost no loss in time, and if loss is incurred it's minimal.

You've talked a bout of bullshit that most companies won't abide by. Having an uncle that is a private trucker, a grandfather that has done trucking on and off the past 40 some years as a pass time, multiple former coworkers that quit trucking, private and for various companies like May Trucking, Knight Transport, etc., and a close friend who was inheriting a multinational company called Garza Trucking Company, not a single one one of the truckers I have ever talked to takes breaks at the rate that this truck requires, they go until the tank won't last to the next fuel station.

 

25 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

The closest we will get are hybrids?

For Semi trucks, yes. Tesla is not the first to experiment with EV Semis. They're not going to be the first to succeed either. Current battery technology is too limited, increasing the banks will create vehicles too large to be viable, and increasing the density past what we already have only assures catastrophic failure.

25 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

-while long hauls are likely out of the question for now in the future who knows.

Anyone keeping up with battery tech and has more than the utmost basic understanding of them does. Either it never happens, or rolling fire hazards that makes loading C4 on my Diesel sound safe.

 

25 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

-the current orders are for depot runs and trucks show up to depots several times a day

The few companies calling for that have idiots in charge of that. The reason diesel trucks are currently used is because the companies that are being contracted out, use those trucks for everything from short distances to cross boarder trips.

 

25 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

-these trucks appeal to majority of the drivers.

I sincerely doubt anyone but the dumbest drivers find any appeal beyond a far fetched fantasy of saving of fuel costs that they should be compensated/compensating for.

 

25 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Seriously if hybrids are the future why are transit authorities testing/running fully electric buses?

Maybe next time, focus on the entirety of the statement.

 

 

I've made my thoughts about the pipe dream of EV trucks known in past threads on Tesla's promises and their failure to keep them. I'm not wasting my time doing it again, and again, and again, just for it to fall on deaf ears.

[SansVarnic]

On 11/18/2017 at 2:19 AM, MoonSpot said:

"a diesel-electric semi-truck";  People/companies aren't usually inclined to pay for 2 of something when 1 does the job.  Plus you're pulling all that extra weight for the redundant motor(s)/Power plant; which murders your efficiency.

Think of it like having 2 beds, just for you, in the same room.  Whats the point when you can only sleep in one at a time?

Also, its not like cars where they can get away with 90Hp on one of the systems.  So thats 2 big heavy powerplant systems capable doing 320-525Hp(more or less) that the vehicle would be pulling around everywhere it goes, eating into its "fuel economy".

Also; Less things to maintain = less things to fix = less headaches = saves more money.  "Keep it simple, stupid" does seem to apply.

 

Oh I know, it was more of an observational comment than an actual "lets make this happen" comment.