Tesla Unveils - Semi Truck and next-gen Roadster

[Egg-Roll]

5 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Maybe next time, focus on the entirety of the statement.

 

I've made my thoughts about the pipe dream of EV trucks known in past threads on Tesla's promises and their failure to keep them. I'm not wasting my time doing it again, and again, and again, just for it to fall on deaf ears.

You miss the point, you dont seem to have any issues of buses requiring such things (high voltage fast charging ports etc, who says Tesla wont use overhead ones too?) but the second a truck requires it? All hell goes loose, seriously, if tesla didn't think they could do it they wouldn't announce it till they knew they could. Before the physical announcement last week it was all "we're working on it", now they have a physical item something the people can touch, with claims. If the truck will blow up, do you really think they would put that on the road?

 

Why not learn how the tesla batteries are actually made, and how they function as a whole... It's not one solid battery, and tesla isn't stupid towards heat dissipation or keeping them warm in cold climates either. But you're making it seem like they opened up a for dummies book on how to make EV's.

https://electrek.co/2017/01/24/tesla-teardown-100-kwh-battery-pack/

https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-a-battery-researcher-told-us-about-the-tesla-1820558723

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNk5l_3vGR8

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/5uz0w3/18650_cells_vs_2170/

 

Just so you know the only failure tesla has done isn't in products, it's in production. Whether you include dropping battery sizes as a product or not thats your choice, to me it's a tier option, not a product. They (to my knowledge) have yet to claim and take money on something they had no intention of producing, which would fall under your words.

 

Taking money and not producing a product can be a crime, however taking money and failing to deliver on time with no contract stating guaranteed time is not illegal, worst that will happen is they hand you your money back. 

 

Your comments actually remind me of the company called Tucker Corporation or at least the movie of it

[moderategamer]

On ‎17‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 5:43 AM, mariushm said:

Too small battery for the truck imho. and it takes too long to charge, so i guess it would suck for long trips.

 

I see truckers on Youtube doing 60 miles an hour and driving for 10-12 hours with 30 minute obligatory break or something like that, basically getting up at 6 am and finding a parking spot somewhere at around 5-6 pm (before they fill up)

With 30min+ charge time, that's enough for 30 min obligatory break but with pre-trip checks and everything it could go up to 45m-1h of pause... not to mention that a lot of truckers have diesel powered generators to warm up the trucks over night in the winter, or to heat up food or watch some tv.

So i guess these aren't really designed for long trips but more like 50-100 mile long trips at a time at most ?

 

 

You should watch the stream to see how wrong you are

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

increasing the density past what we already have only assures catastrophic failure.

Actually no, there is a lot of battery tech not being utilized at all yet and there are some battery technologies being worked on now with actual working prototypes that are 100% impossible to burn or fail in a catastrophic way at all while also being more energy dense than any battery is use today, it is also cheap and easy to manufacture so cost isn't an issue either.

 

Edit:

Oh and can be formed in to any basic shape you like.

 

Edit 2:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2017/01/31/researchers-create-new-high-capacity-battery-technology-without-lithium-ions-explosive-risks/#57c7399d1a6b

 

https://www.sciencefriday.com/articles/the-plastic-battery-that-doesnt-explode/

[Godlygamer23]

On 11/17/2017 at 12:10 AM, aubryscully said:

-Regenerative braking means that brakes never need to be replaced

I'm not convinced of that. You still need regular brakes. To say that brakes will never need replacing is a bold claim, and one that I will challenge.

[Egg-Roll]

18 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

I'm not convinced of that. You still need regular brakes. To say that brakes will never need replacing is a bold claim, and one that I will challenge.

Seem's a little sketchy until you realize trains first braking system is basically what tesla is going to be using as primary braking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_braking

While i do hope they have a failsafe in place it's possible the brakes would simply lock up in a safe manner if power is lost.

One thing that was brought up talking about it today with someone was air brakes and compatibility, as where and how it would work.

Apparently im not the only one asking either lol https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-semi.74244/page-32

 

[Dash Lambda]

The Roadster is cool, but I'm way more interested in a Model S P200D. That needs to happen.

[mariushm]

7 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

 

Seriously if hybrids are the future why are transit authorities testing/running fully electric buses?

https://www.yrt.ca/en/about-us/resources/ASP2017/ASP2017_07-2017-ASP-Goals.pdf

http://winnipegtransit.com/en/major-projects/electric-bus-demonstration/

https://stalbert.ca/city/transit/electric-buses/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/windsor-to-test-electric-bus-1.2901711

https://www.cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/New_Flyer_Industries_XE40

 

 

Seriously tho like i said BC/Ontario has the infrastructure to handle it, so we are likely to be the first to see the trucks.

 

Electric buses are totally a different thing compared to semi trucks. 

Buses can use a mix of batteries and super capacitors (which are charged from regenerative breaking or charged at bus stops)

if they're used in towns, they don't need to go up to 65mph and go up 5% inclines as the semis are rated for... they could be "optimized" for up to 40mph for example

They also don't have to carry so much (up to 80000 pounds or 36 tons) .. let's say you have 100 passengers with average weight of 100kg, you still have only 10 tons of weight, you can make the bus way lighter than 26 tons .. so you don't need as powerful motors as you need for a semi.

They have more room for batteries, for town buses where there's no need for luggage you have the whole length of the floor AND the roof (minus some room for air conditioning)

The overall trips would be much shorter, let's say  10-20 miles for a round trip around town and all the stops and then back to the depot, so the bus can charge at depot for 400-1000 miles and do 10 round trips or more (if does top ups at stations) then returns at depot for a 30m-1h break (where driver is changed or gets lunch or has 30m break). 

Since the number of stops is small and they're close together, they can engineer less expensive charge stations at each stop for maximum 2 buses charging at same time, and with 30s to 1m top up time (because you don't want to inconvenience passengers by staying in station too long) ... and knowing the buses will only come once every 5 minutes or more or that station, they can design the charge stations with that in mind, unlike mega chargers for semis which could have queues of semi trucks waiting to be charged. Like in the video you posted ... just stop at station, lift the skids and top up.

 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, mariushm said:

Electric buses are totally a different thing compared to semi trucks. 

Buses can use a mix of batteries and super capacitors (which are charged from regenerative breaking or charged at bus stops)

if they're used in towns, they don't need to go up to 65mph and go up 5% inclines as the semis are rated for... they could be "optimized" for up to 40mph for example

They also don't have to carry so much (up to 80000 pounds or 36 tons) .. let's say you have 100 passengers with average weight of 100kg, you still have only 10 tons of weight, you can make the bus way lighter than 26 tons .. so you don't need as powerful motors as you need for a semi.

They have more room for batteries, for town buses where there's no need for luggage you have the whole length of the floor AND the roof (minus some room for air conditioning)

The overall trips would be much shorter, let's say  10-20 miles for a round trip around town and all the stops and then back to the depot, so the bus can charge at depot for 400-1000 miles and do 10 round trips or more (if does top ups at stations) then returns at depot for a 30m-1h break (where driver is changed or gets lunch or has 30m break). 

Since the number of stops is small and they're close together, they can engineer less expensive charge stations at each stop for maximum 2 buses charging at same time, and with 30s to 1m top up time (because you don't want to inconvenience passengers by staying in station too long) ... and knowing the buses will only come once every 5 minutes or more or that station, they can design the charge stations with that in mind, unlike mega chargers for semis which could have queues of semi trucks waiting to be charged. Like in the video you posted ... just stop at station, lift the skids and top up.

For things like trucks and trains high temperature hydrogen fuel cells start to make sense. Low temperature hydrogen fuel cells require pure hydrogen and aren't as efficient but are a lot safer and smaller.

 

My worry isn't that battery technology, or even a move to super capacitors, won't give the range or the charge time but the the actual power required to do it over such a short period of time. It doesn't do us much good if we can't safely get the power in to the vehicle and also lack the required infrastructure to do it, which isn't a total generation output issue but rather a transmission issue.

 

The current process to actually obtain pure hydrogen is very polluting and energy demanding so is a poor choice to replace combustion engines. I could see trucks using low temperature fuel cells and trains using Internal Reforming high temperature fuel cells which can produce the required pure hydrogen for the trucking industry, that way trains are a dual production and income system making it an attractive proposition. Yea pipe dream I know.

http://www.nfcrc.uci.edu/3/research/keyInitiatives/hydrogen/HighTemperatureFuelCell.aspx

 

Also if Internal Reforming high temperature fuel cells become more wide spread and clean hydrogen production is significantly increased car manufacturers could make hybrid Battery/SuperCap-Fuel Cell long distance cars without the inconveniences. 

[cj09beira]

7 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Seem's a little sketchy until you realize trains first braking system is basically what tesla is going to be using as primary braking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_braking

While i do hope they have a failsafe in place it's possible the brakes would simply lock up in a safe manner if power is lost.

One thing that was brought up talking about it today with someone was air brakes and compatibility, as where and how it would work.

Apparently im not the only one asking either lol https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-semi.74244/page-32

 

there wouldn't be any air brakes, as air braking is done with the engine,

and regenerative braking would do the same job even better as the energy isn't being lost.

the fail safe is probably the normal brakes, that most of the time i bet you wouldn't even need to use.

[Egg-Roll]

6 hours ago, mariushm said:

for town buses where there's no need for luggage you have the whole length of the floor AND the roof

You do realize Tesla is making the semi with all/most of the batteries on the floor right? They have been doing so Since the Model S...

6 hours ago, mariushm said:

if they're used in towns, they don't need to go up to 65mph and go up 5% inclines as the semis are rated for... they could be "optimized" for up to 40mph for example

Once again people assuming. While yes "most" buses wont get to speeds upwards to 65, but here are some buses that do: Most or all YRT 300 series TTC' 192 Most Go buses.

As for inclines Ontario and BC are fairly hilly so buses here do have to tackle 5% on some routes, no diversion allowed, a trucker if deemed too slow can always try to find a new route.

6 hours ago, mariushm said:

The overall trips would be much shorter, let's say  10-20 miles for a round trip around town and all the stops and then back to the depot, so the bus can charge at depot for 400-1000 miles and do 10 round trips or more (if does top ups at stations) then returns at depot for a 30m-1h break (where driver is changed or gets lunch or has 30m break). 

I dont think you realize how buses work here... I can go to places for 10 hours and still catch the same bus back. These buses dont go out of service for anything but driver breaks if there's a time gap.

The current flavour of bus has 142 US gal and apparently can do about 3mpg+-  Or the one of the longest routes where i live is about 21 trips, each trip taking just over a hour to complete. The Tesla Semi would actually work great for buses, as to why they didn't do this first is beyond me.

 

Also only places top ups can happen are at terminal stations, and longer the route the more likely the delay.

 

3 hours ago, leadeater said:

My worry isn't that battery technology, or even a move to super capacitors, won't give the range or the charge time but the the actual power required to do it over such a short period of time. It doesn't do us much good if we can't safely get the power in to the vehicle and also lack the required infrastructure to do it, which isn't a total generation output issue but rather a transmission issue.

 

For things like trucks and trains high temperature hydrogen fuel cells start to make sense. Low temperature hydrogen fuel cells require pure hydrogen and aren't as efficient but are a lot safer and smaller.

 

The current process to actually obtain pure hydrogen is very polluting and energy demanding so is a poor choice to replace combustion engines. I could see trucks using low temperature fuel cells and trains using Internal Reforming high temperature fuel cells which can produce the required pure hydrogen for the trucking industry, that way trains are a dual production and income system making it an attractive proposition. Yea pipe dream I know.

http://www.nfcrc.uci.edu/3/research/keyInitiatives/hydrogen/HighTemperatureFuelCell.aspx

 

Also if Internal Reforming high temperature fuel cells become more wide spread and clean hydrogen production is significantly increased car manufacturers could make hybrid Battery/SuperCap-Fuel Cell long distance cars without the inconveniences. 

I shifted your post around a bit.

I think that is the main reason for Walmart sending 10 trucks to canada instead of all on the "flatter" stateside. Next Gen vehicles are only as good as the infrastructure (the weakest link) around them. This can be proven time and time again threw out modern tech, from modems to fax machines to even propane driven vehicles when they were new. If people want to change the infrastructure will too, besides how long can you really rely on an aging system w/o upgrading anyways? Eventually it will fail (im refering to the power grid), I've pointed out about supplying the power via natural resources locally which could then be stored in their own system, this method can be used while the grid upgrades as the trucks will not be in plentiful supply yet.

 

No one on this planet is going to ever convince me (knowingly) to get into a hydrogen vehicle. unless they can prove the tanks can withhold a force equivalent to 100G's, this basically means I'm dead before it ruptures. I know hydrogen isn't "very" dangerous but i still dont want a bunch of flammable gas (not the oil based kind) that isnt my own under me, i like my life a little too much.

I would get in one of these cars before i would get into a hydrogen one.

 

I do like the idea trains producing hydrogen, just one problem, derailments still happen, as do crashes.

 

I was actually thinking that too it would be a nice configuration, but i think it's a bigger pipedream than the train setup, as the big car companies have been really bad at the whole battery thing.

 

I do love this article and Toy's response to Tesla, tho i dont think they realized one thing in doing so... Their cars now are basically shit runners  Take it in any way you want.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/hydrogen-fuel-cells-find-a-niche-despite-doubts-of-tesla-s-elon-musk-1.3054628

 

3 hours ago, cj09beira said:

there wouldn't be any air brakes, as air braking is done with the engine,

and regenerative braking would do the same job even better as the energy isn't being lost.

the fail safe is probably the normal brakes, that most of the time i bet you wouldn't even need to use.

Then it's BS that brakes dont need to be maintained. mechanical brakes still need work done even if never used, fail safes cant fail. depending on the setup and trailer requirements they might be able to get away with a tiny bike pump or something for air, which doesn't use much power.

[cj09beira]

@Egg-Roll

its bullshit to a certain point, it probably wears so slowly that you don't need to chance the brake pads in the normal lifetime of such truck, but you know they gotta have them buzz words 

[MadyTehWolfie]

I don't support any company who's business model involves taking tax payer dollars to fund rich people's play toys. An electric semi truck is just 100% retarded to me. Seriously can Tesla's daddy government stop giving them our tax money already. They only produce 2 things. Cars for rich people and a useless semi truck.

[michaelocarroll007]

4 hours ago, cj09beira said:

there wouldn't be any air brakes, as air braking is done with the engine,

and regenerative braking would do the same job even better as the energy isn't being lost.

the fail safe is probably the normal brakes, that most of the time i bet you wouldn't even need to use.

so what your saying is every trailer out now is obsolete i think is the problem here. Tesla Truck cant tow a Trailer then pick up another like they do all day/week from place to place.  Typically say a distributor needs to have a trailer delivered somone picks it up gose to say walmart drops it off and picks up a trailer from walmart and brings it back or goes and does a similar load elsewhere close by.

[michaelocarroll007]

13 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

I don't support any company who's business model involves taking tax payer dollars to fund rich people's play toys. An electric semi truck is just 100% retarded to me. Seriously can Tesla's daddy government stop giving them our tax money already. They only produce 2 things. Cars for rich people and a useless semi truck.

Uh tax credits are only X amount per company so thats pretty much going away anyhow.

[cj09beira]

35 minutes ago, michaelocarroll007 said:

so what your saying is every trailer out now is obsolete i think is the problem here. Tesla Truck cant tow a Trailer then pick up another like they do all day/week from place to place.  Typically say a distributor needs to have a trailer delivered somone picks it up gose to say walmart drops it off and picks up a trailer from walmart and brings it back or goes and does a similar load elsewhere close by.

i was referring to air brake, as in using the engine as a compressor in order to slow the truck down, i forgot about the trailer brakes , pretty good question, but i dont see why they would change the system, as i cant think of a better way to brake using the trailer, and indeed it seems like a deal killer 

[MoonSpot]

2 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

The Tesla Semi would actually work great for buses, as to why they didn't do this first is beyond me.

Hmm... I don't know about that, at least at face value.  As you said earlier, city buses circle their routes for long stretches of time.  Plus add constant stop and go at every light, stop sign and bus stop; and I don't really see it looking all that awesome in my crystal ball.  I'd be surprised if the battery could muster a full 8hr shift of the very energy demanding "stop and go" driving city buses have to do.

Now there is time to do a partial quick charge during a drivers lunch break, but shift change from morning to afternoon drivers could prove challenging.  Just because people get to call it quits after an 8-10hr day, that doesn't mean the 1/2 million dollar(or more) city buses do.  Transits don't really want buses sitting around doing nothing.  Neither they nor their passengers can afford to have any great number of extra vehicles sitting around.

That said, it's not a black and white thing.  Each and every route in a city is different and in some instances deploying 1 technology could be beneficial over using another.  Either way, if tesla goes for buses they'll want to tailor their solution more to it.

Allison EV trannys have been a thing for several years now.  It's not quite the same but close enough where it would probably be a really good idea to get what those transit properties think about it thus far from usability, serviceability to cost of ownership, maintenance and repair perspectives.

Honestly I'm a bit more interested the thought of Tesla making recycling trucks(maybe garbage trucks, but batteries would need some serious armour to protect from punctures), I see it as a bit more viable in that scenario

[MadyTehWolfie]

1 hour ago, michaelocarroll007 said:

Uh tax credits are only X amount per company so thats pretty much going away anyhow.

Tesla was given over a billion of tax payer subsidies. Sure the government hands out cash to companies for emissions and such, however without the tax payer dollars Tesla's business model wouldn't work and there would be no more Tesla without them taking tax payer dollars. The tax payer subsidizes 30-60% of the cost per vehicle as well as give them a boat load of money to build a battery factory. Tesla= Robbinhood that steals from the poor to supply the rich with shitty electric cars.

 

Edit: tax credit =/= subsidizing. Two very different things. Along with the government subsidise they also take tax credits 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story,amp.html

[Egg-Roll]

42 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Tesla was given over a billion of tax payer subsidies. Sure the government hands out cash to companies for emissions and such, however without the tax payer dollars Tesla's business model wouldn't work and there would be no more Tesla without them taking tax payer dollars. The tax payer subsidizes 30-60% of the cost per vehicle as well as give them a boat load of money to build a battery factory. Tesla= Robbinhood that steals from the poor to supply the rich with shitty electric cars.

 

Edit: tax credit =/= subsidizing. Two very different things. Along with the government subsidise they also take tax credits 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story,amp.html

What's your point again?

https://www.cheatsheet.com/business/high-on-the-hog-the-top-8-corporate-welfare-recipients.html/?a=viewall

 

Unlike GM they are at least trying...

[michaelocarroll007]

1 hour ago, cj09beira said:

i was referring to air brake, as in using the engine as a compressor in order to slow the truck down, i forgot about the trailer brakes , pretty good question, but i dont see why they would change the system, as i cant think of a better way to brake using the trailer, and indeed it seems like a deal killer 

Yeah i havent seen anything on this but i didnt pay crazy attention to the semi truck in articles. Though its diffidently a MUST otherwise it will be so hard for them to get the ball rolling would need huge contract where someone is willing to buy tesla trailers only like fex ed or UPS or similar then. as they have a lot of 18 wheelers that go city to city every day only 150-400 miles away its not the worst idea but to get them to invest. 

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

No one on this planet is going to ever convince me (knowingly) to get into a hydrogen vehicle. unless they can prove the tanks can withhold a force equivalent to 100G's, this basically means I'm dead before it ruptures. I know hydrogen isn't "very" dangerous but i still dont want a bunch of flammable gas (not the oil based kind) that isnt my own under me, i like my life a little too much.

I would get in one of these cars before i would get into a hydrogen one.

Well currently the Lithium Ion batteries in use today would put you are more risk of dying due to rupture of those than a hydrogen tank would, the way batteries burn is very scary. I guess it's death by explosion/concussive blast versus death by extreme heat, neither are great options. At least there is battery tech coming that will solve it though.

[Nite-Ninja]

As a long haul trucker of 6 years, and now I drive 441 miles every night in my local route, theres a few things good and bad about the electric truck that would concern me, and probably start a forum war since I'm a person with opposing views.

 

The Design

 

That truck, has too much aerodynamics. With the trailer as low as it is, you would high-center it on even the smallest bumps on the road, let alone a railroad track. They're making trailers now with "skirts" under them, and they're constantly hitting varying changes in terrain. Even a steep enough slope (lets say coming out of the walmart parking lot to the main road) would cause the rear end to scrape the ground and even tear something off.

 

Airflow to braking components. Thats another drawback of even the current minuscule aerodynamics trailers have now, the brakes under load, such as descending a large hill, will heat up much faster, and "smoke". Many truckers use the mechanical engine brake to help provide more braking power to the drive train to help slow the truck down. Electric regenerative braking could help to a certain degree, but you would need to rely on mechanical brakes to control a 40-ton vehicle descending a 7%+ grade. With very little air resistance, that truck wouldn't have much stopping it either.

 

There needs to be a gap between the trailer and the tractor. Unless the kingpin automatically adjusts itself to allow the truck to turn, you will crush the fins on the side of the tractor in anything greater than a 50-60 degree turn. So you couldn't button hook or jug handle turns without causing a lot of damage.

 

And back to aerodynamics, tires get hot and rely on a certain degree of airflow to keep cool as well, so they'll need to look back at tire technology to help prevent this. Current truck tires are 24 inches in diameter, with 100 pounds per square inch of pressure. When one of those blows, you bet those little panels will become projectiles to a vehicle beside the truck.

 

The Execution

 

I have no doubt that in the future, electric vehicles will become more of a thing than what people are giving it credit for. But we're talking about trying to turn a vehicle that can burn 100 gallons of fuel in a 400-500 mile trip, into electric. The amount of battery technology will be absurd, not to mention the fire hazard from flash fires that failing batteries can cause. Diesel burns slow, and has a high ignition temperature (alot of people think Diesel is like Gasoline and can just spark spontaneously, but thats not the case). 

 

The braking system would have to be all electric, probably one that would require power to keep the brake shoes away from the pads, that way in the event of a power loss, the brakes would slam down as air brakes do in a air system failure. An electric air system would also possibly work, but then you'd need even more systems in order to have the regenerative braking on all 18 wheels. The wiring would be nuts.

 

And this would never work in the climate I live in. With the amount of road salt and snow we have up here, the electrical system would corrode out of them in no time, not to mention the changing temperatures would be hell on the batteries. When I worked for Werner years ago, they tried using natural gas trucks to run their line hauls from Chicago to Omaha, and even with a full tank of natural gas, due to how natural gas loses pressure when its cold, they would need to refill in that small trip. I'm sure this would be alleviated with a controlled battery heater, but just like having the brakes suspended when powered, that would use more energy as well.

 

My Conclusion

 

Its a neat idea, but our infrastructure here in the United States is not ready for something like this. Especially their convoy mode, because we have traffic, lots of it. Even major freeways are clogged. And you'd imagine that most impatient drivers out there would do their damnest to cut off a convoy train of trucks. Motorists get angry around regular truckers as is since we're large slow moving road blocks in large volumes with somewhere to go. Everyone is in a hurry to gain that extra 5 seconds to their day.

 

I would however like to see this tech go into a hybrid truck. The most fuel used in a semi truck is accelerating, as even the newest trucks can get over 11-12mpg with average loads on average terrain (Source - Freightliner reviewing the 2018 Cascadia), but I'm sure that could be even better if the high torque abilities of electric motors helped get them to speed. Maybe even turn to electric power when coasting and rely on the diesel engine to climb hills. There are many ways that they could compromise on electric and diesel tech. After all, diesel engine tech and truck design has come a long way in a short time.

 

And if you read all this, you earned yourself a beer. If you're going to quote me to troll me, I'm taking that beer back

[michaelocarroll007]

49 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Tesla was given over a billion of tax payer subsidies. Sure the government hands out cash to companies for emissions and such, however without the tax payer dollars Tesla's business model wouldn't work and there would be no more Tesla without them taking tax payer dollars. The tax payer subsidizes 30-60% of the cost per vehicle as well as give them a boat load of money to build a battery factory. Tesla= Robbinhood that steals from the poor to supply the rich with shitty electric cars.

 

Edit: tax credit =/= subsidizing. Two very different things. Along with the government subsidise they also take tax credits 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story,amp.html

The whole point of the tax breaks and credits is to make eletric cars a Thing. Name another company That has been as successful as tesla in getting consumers interested and accepting of electric cars?  Yeah the tax breaks are insane but they also are dwindling now that all the construction is done and the Tax credits when people buy them which is counted in that number are soon gone. 

 

its a problem more so with the government then the exact company Amazon is looking to build a new Office and Goverments are offering insane tax benefits and or even renaming the entire town..... At least there is more reasons to push an electric car then this.  So many buisnesses get tax free buildings and Such for building in Office Parks and Such. 

 

Towns spend billions of dollars to say they Brought X amount of jobs here cause the company they give a tax credit too is going to hire x amount of people.

 

You can be mad at Tesla But This is first a problem with governments wanting Business. and honestly imo this is one of the better waste of money of this type. Solar pannels and electric cars?

 

but it also seems like your pretty bias on the topic quoting shitty electric cars please compare it to another electric car that blows it out of the water. 

 

 

 

[cj09beira]

19 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well currently the Lithium Ion batteries in use today would put you are more risk of dying due to rupture of those than a hydrogen tank would, the way batteries burn is very scary. I guess it's death by explosion/concussive blast versus death by extreme heat, neither are great options. At least there is battery tech coming that will solve it though.

still its very hard to get the batteries to do anything interesting, as they are individually fused, cooled with water and very well packed 

 

@Nite-Ninja 

they probably cant have regenerative braking on all wheels without having a motor on each wheel too, so thats probably not happening, they would probably stick with air brakes on the trailer, in your climate the batteries would be very sad, about hight they probably will implement something to allow you to set it, even then this will only make the most sense in smaller roots near big cities.

because they have 4 motors they can probably have very good braking with just the motors, hopefully we get some numbers on what the system can do, 

[aus_dom]

There are some city buses that are electric here is one trial. http://winnipegtransit.com/en/major-projects/electric-bus-demonstration/ Which their reason for having the trial here is to see how it works from -45°C to about plus 35°C. It has a two hour 40km route that has a 10 min charge time between each route using a overhead charger, and should be able to drive a 5 hour route between charges. According to a video about it there is a biodiesel heater for very cold days https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QptoGWmnEy4

[Dash Lambda]

16 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

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15 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

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I was thinking that their claim about the brakes was preposterous, as regenerative brakes alone can't bring a vehicle to a full stop, even with no idle velocity, but I just realized they can apply reverse torque at the very end. Problem then is how they keep the vehicle still...

But if they have the system set up such that the regular brakes are used only in emergencies, I'd give them a pass on the "they never need changing" claim. It's a bit misleading, but as far as marketing goes, if there isn't regular wear-and-tear then they can say it's just as permanent as any other part.