Well this can't be good, Vega 64 could be great for mining

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, cj09beira said:

the thing was that the last hbm card, the fury x wasn't very good at all, that with the tests done by pcper we got revealed that at least for ethereum (which is the main one right now) it wouldn't be useful, but i guess they changed something that improved perf a lot, would like to know what, and its probably memory related 

There wasn't much incentive for miners to improve the algorithms for Fury as it wasn't that much bigger in compute performance and wasn't that power efficient, plus rather expensive.

 

Vega must have some architectural changes and improvements that makes it a lot better with current algorithms, what could be worse or better depending on who you are is that it could potentially be even faster with more tuning. 

[ARikozuM]

I want to say "at least Vega is good for something", but this is a red-team thread, so I'll just say "DAMN THOSE MINERS!" and walk away intact.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

but this is a red-team thread

Pokemon yellow was better 

[ARikozuM]

Just now, leadeater said:

Pokemon yellow was better 

Lies! Don't destroy my ATI childhood! 

[JoostinOnline]

Vega sounds like a terrible card for mining.  The power draw is insane, so your electric bill will be much higher.

[flibberdipper]

4 hours ago, Drak3 said:

For all of about 5 minutes before VEGA is out of stock.

ssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh don't crush my hopes and dreams

[Humbug]

26 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

Vega sounds like a terrible card for mining.  The power draw is insane, so your electric bill will be much higher.

Remember that Vega64 and Vega FE have been clocked up and volted up way beyond the point of diminishing returns. This is in order to compete on raw performance with the GTX 1080 in gaming and Titan XP in professional applications. AMD knew they cannot lose to the 1080 on raw performance.

 

But what happens when you instead tweak Vega for max efficiency?

When you configure Vega to the point where you are get the best possible clocks with the least possible voltage.

 

You will end up with something like the Vega nano at 150 watts. And it will still be fast...

[JoostinOnline]

Just now, Humbug said:

Remember that Vega64 and Vega FE have been clocked up and volted up way beyond the point of diminishing returns. This is in order to compete on raw performance with the GTX 1080 in gaming and Titan XP in professional applications. AMD knew they cannot lose to the 1080 on raw performance.

 

But what happens when you instead tweak Vega for max efficiency?

When you configure Vega to the point where you are get the best possible clocks with the least possible voltage.

 

You will end up with something like the Vega nano at 150 watts. And it will still be fast...

Fair point.  Even so, I think it's way too high.  It's got double the power draw of a 1080 when they're both at full load.  I don't know that much about mining though.

[rattacko123]

12 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

This is definitely not true. Vega might do 40-50MH/s but it ain't gonna do 70-100, sounds fake to me. 

vega is probably going to do 50-60MH/s considering it's twice better than an RX580 flops-wise. Compute-wise flop for flop they should be similar

[ravenshrike]

16 minutes ago, rattacko123 said:

vega is probably going to do 50-60MH/s considering it's twice better than an RX580 flops-wise. Compute-wise flop for flop they should be similar

 

Well, unless B&C was telling the truth when they stated AMD was sandbagging and selling 1080 and 1080ti equivalents at 1070 and 1080 prices respectively is their way of taking a crowbar to nVidia's knees.

[You_are_a_cunt]

10 hours ago, DoctorWho1975 said:

Sorry AMD Free Sync, Adaptive Sync, whatever else you want to call it. The shit NVidia charges up the ass for while AMD makes it cheap.

I just got a 24" FreeSync monitor from Acer. An equivalent G-Sync is ~2.5x more expensive than what I paid for mine.

#BetterRed

[leadeater]

51 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

There is no F*ckin way vega can do 70-100MH/s. That honestly sounds made up. I know vega is powerful, but it won't just perform far and away better than every card if the ones on the market are doing 30MH/s, it just won't happen. Compute performance may help out, but it definitely won't do that. Vega is supposed to line up with a GTX 1080 in performance and if that's true, we can expect it do do better than a 1080 in compute, but not over 100% better for mining.

 

This is definitely not true. Vega might do 40-50MH/s but it ain't gonna do 70-100, sounds fake to me. 

Actually it sounds about right, R9 290X can do 30MH/s and my two together does 58-62MH/s.

 

We're talking about a card that has 5.6 TFLOPS vs 13.7 TFLOPS which is 2.45 the compute performance. 30 * 2.45 = 73.5 so it's inline with the performance difference for theoretical performance figures on tasks which are heavily influenced by compute performance.

 

Edit:

 

My guess would be around 65-75MH/s

[Brooksie359]

As much as I hate the idea of miners buying up all the vega cards I honestly think this is a good thing for amd and it's ability to put more money into r&d as well as pay off its debt. If this allows for better competition in the gpu and cpu market I'm all for it.

[mr moose]

14 minutes ago, revsilverspine said:

I just got a 24" FreeSync monitor from Acer. An equivalent G-Sync is ~2.5x more expensive than what I paid for mine.

#BetterRed

what monitor is it?   2.5X sounds like an awful lot.

[You_are_a_cunt]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

what monitor is it?   2.5X sounds like an awful lot.

Acer GF246. I paid roughly $125 for it (new, ofc.)

Cheapest rough equivalent monitors with GSync start at around $270

[ATFink]

10 hours ago, knightslugger said:

that's a lot of families you're hoping it will hurt... mining isn't strictly a casual activity.

I'd argue that mining does not provide anything of real value markets, and people profiting off of the coins are parasitically sucking money from suckers buying into the coins. As far as I can tell the crypto coins are only being invested in as a source of hedging against a dollar collapse, as a method to launder money from black market transactions, or by people expecting the coins to magically be worth something even though there are just about no people that accept it as a form of currency (one thing I'm sure early investors are banking on changing). If crypto coins never change hands for goods or services, then the coins aren't really a currency and are effectively worthless. I think the only reason they are worth anything today is a because of the groups of people I mentioned above.

 

If someone trusts a currency this volatile over their countries home currency such that they stake there whole worth on it, they must live in Venezuela:

 

 

I am not going to condemn someone that stakes their livelihood on a gamble like like this, but now that we've devolved to the "think of the children" claim I would condemn someone investing all their families money in a risk like this. As long as crypto currencies follow the current trend of Bitcoin and Ethereum where the value of the coin looks like mountain range, with scattered peaks and valleys everywhere, I don't believe any sane business owner is going to feel comfortable accepting crypto payments for goods or services. Crypto currencies could be worth about half there current value in a couple months, so why would your average joe bother with them when there are stable currencies that already exist? If the crypto currencies where stable, this would be a different discussion, but they are not. 

 

To clarify, business owners potentially using crypto currencies as payment should be able to do so (after all it is their life and their business, let them make their own decisions about what they'll accept as payment), but I have serious doubts about many people ever attempting to accept this as serious standard given the current volatility. I have even greater doubts about the middle class and lower income households using this as a standard because they won't want the money they use to be a volatile gamble either.

 

I don't want families to hurt, but miners that may lose all their wealth in crypto currencies will find no sympathy from me...

Edited August 4, 2017 by ATFink
Moved the picture

[NLD1st]

8 hours ago, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

I agree. I wish AMD and Nvidia would just stop this mining bullshit.

But I doubt that because as long as they get money, they don't care what the people are using them for.

Well not entirely true gamers nexus did something on that. Tldr vendors prefer gamers because they can bind them to a brand and maybe sell a whole ecosystem to like mbo gpu and peripheral. Miners just buy the card with the best hashrate 9x and no peripheral and next time they don't care about the brand again. 

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, revsilverspine said:

Acer GF246. I paid roughly $125 for it (new, ofc.)

Cheapest rough equivalent monitors with GSync start at around $270

Bloody hell, that's disposable monitor prices.

[You_are_a_cunt]

Just now, mr moose said:

Bloody hell, that's disposable monitor prices.

wtf is a disposable monitor?

*remembers he has a 15 year old CRT monitor somewhere*

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, revsilverspine said:

wtf is a disposable monitor?

*remembers he has a 15 year old CRT monitor somewhere*

 

At that price they are disposable, you buy one every time you don't like the dust on the bezel or the stand looks a bit janurary and not new like august. 

[You_are_a_cunt]

Just now, mr moose said:

 

At that price they are disposable, you buy one every time you don't like the dust on the bezel or the stand looks a bit janurary and not new like august. 

Yeah, no.

My paycheck is ~$400/mo (not including bonuses and "food stamps") and I'm in the "decent" wage area.

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, revsilverspine said:

Yeah, no.

My paycheck is ~$400/mo (not including bonuses and "food stamps") and I'm in the "decent" wage area.

I remember living there,  But my comment was not so much about affluence (or the lack of) just the fact it is a stupid low price for what it is in general.

 

I remember a time watching people on the forums show of their shiny new DFI lanparty mobos with their EE P4's.  The price hasn't really changed for that level of hardware in 15 years, so taking into account inflation that should tell you how much cheaper shit is today.

[cj09beira]

57 minutes ago, ATFink said:

I'd argue that mining does not provide anything of real value markets, and people profiting off of the coins are parasitically sucking money from suckers buying into the coins. As far as I can tell the crypto coins are only being invested in as a source of hedging against a dollar collapse, as a method to launder money from black market transactions, or by people expecting the coins to magically be worth something even though there are just about no people that accept it as a form of currency (one thing I'm sure early investors are banking on changing). If crypto coins never change hands for goods or services, then the coins aren't really a currency and are effectively worthless. I think the only reason they are worth anything today is a because of the groups of people I mentioned above.

 

If someone trusts a currency this volatile over their countries home currency such that they stake there whole worth on it, they must live in Venezuela:

 

 

I am not going to condemn someone that stakes their livelihood on a gamble like like this, but now that we've devolved to the "think of the children" claim I would condemn someone investing all their families money in a risk like this. As long as crypto currencies follow the current trend of Bitcoin and Ethereum where the value of the coin looks like mountain range, with scattered peaks and valleys everywhere, I don't believe any sane business owner is going to feel comfortable accepting crypto payments for goods or services. Crypto currencies could be worth about half there current value in a couple months, so why would your average joe bother with them when there are stable currencies that already exist? If the crypto currencies where stable, this would be a different discussion, but they are not. 

 

To clarify, business owners potentially using crypto currencies as payment should be able to do so (after all it is their life and their business, let them make their own decisions about what they'll accept as payment), but I have serious doubts about many people ever attempting to accept this as serious standard given the current volatility. I have even greater doubts about the middle class and lower income households using this as a standard because they won't want the money they use to be a volatile gamble either.

 

I don't want families to hurt, but miners that may lose all their wealth in crypto currencies will find no sympathy from me...

thats where ethereum is revolutionary, its made to be a platform for decentralized software that once its up and running it can't be taken down, unless it runs out of funds to sustain it self

[rhyseyness]

So I've read about 4 pages of this thread.

Not sure why everyone is so against this.

 

People buying TONNEs of these cards is great for AMD.

They need the money pretty bad.

It's only a small percentage of us who were actually going to go out and buy one straight away anyway.

 

Furthermore, if these are amazing for mining, suddenly there's gonna be alot of RX580s cheap af on ebay.

THEN when the cryptocurrencies crash, cheap vegas.

I'm not seeing a downside here.

 

AMD get money, we get cheap used cards for now and cheap used cards in the future... what is possibly bad about this?

 

Also, lol at all the people saying "Why are you doing this AMD?"

If I was them I'd be making these cards even more mining oriented.

[You_are_a_cunt]

Just now, mr moose said:

I remember living there,  But my comment was not so much about affluence (or the lack of) just the fact it is a stupid low price for what it is in general.

 

I remember a time watching people on the forums show of their shiny new DFI lanparty mobos with their EE P4's.  The price hasn't really changed for that level of hardware in 15 years, so taking into account inflation that should tell you how much cheaper shit is today.

It all depends on supply, demand, promotions, buyer education and so on.

I see people spending ungodly sums of money on monitors that are literally too good for the PCs they're running (I have a guy at work that bought a 4k monitor expecting to play games on a 3rd gen non-k i4 and an R9 280).

I could have probably gone for a 144hz or 1440p display since my rig has gotten pretty beefy now, but I'm sticking to 1080p (I can still just use a custom resolution if I want more screen realestate, but things get slightly shady once you start running 1440p or 4k on a 1080p panel.