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Top Tier RX Vega card rumored to be more expensive then the GTX 1080TI

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Posted
1 hour ago, Morgan MLGman said:

How can someone who is a self-proclaimed Intel / Nvidia "enthusiast" that defended X299 in many threads before and bought one himself knowing it's just essentially bad and basically ocomparable with the R5 1600 both in games & professional workloads (talking about the 7800X here) even say those things?

 

Didn't you just buy a power-hungry, relatively bad-performing and overpriced platform yourself just because it's branded Intel? :P That seems like hypocrisy because from what you said, Vega looks exactly the same: power-hungry, relatively bad-performing and overpriced.

 

On topic: Vega leaks aren't impressive so far, if they are correct then I'm taking an educated guess here that AMD wouldn't price those cards that high. However, they might've priced Vega that high if they didn't show something cool about it yet that would justify the price tag. I doubt they priced a ~1080 level of performance card as high as top-end 1080Tis because it would just be a retarded business decision, and so far AMD has made the right ones with Ryzen. At least when it comes to pricing.

I have a 7820X. ;) 

CPU: Intel Core i7 7820X Cooling: Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX Mobo: MSI X299 Gaming Pro Carbon AC RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 (3000MHz/16GB 2x8) SSD: 2x Samsung 850 Evo (250/250GB) + Samsung 850 Pro (512GB) GPU: NVidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FE (W/ EVGA Hybrid Kit) Case: Corsair Graphite Series 760T (Black) PSU: SeaSonic Platinum Series (860W) Monitor: Acer Predator XB241YU (165Hz / G-Sync) Fan Controller: NZXT Sentry Mix 2 Case Fans: Intake - 2x Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 PWM / Radiator - 2x Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 PWM / Rear Exhaust - 1x Noctua NF-F12 iPPC-3000 PWM

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Posted
1 hour ago, Morgan MLGman said:

How can someone who is a self-proclaimed Intel / Nvidia "enthusiast" that defended X299 in many threads before and bought one himself knowing it's just essentially bad and basically ocomparable with the R5 1600 both in games & professional workloads (talking about the 7800X here) even say those things?

 

  1. @VagabondWraith has a 7820X (quite a bit better than the 1700)
  2. At least he paid more for better performance. With Vega you're paying more for less performance (1080 Ti is cheaper and better than Vega)

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K | Motherboard: AsRock X99 Extreme4 | Graphics Card: Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 Gaming | RAM: 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws4 2133MHz | Storage: 1 x Samsung 860 EVO 1TB | 1 x WD Green 2TB | 1 x WD Blue 500GB | PSU: Corsair RM750x | Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro (White) | Cooling: Arctic Freezer i32

 

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Posted
3 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

However, the GTX 1080 also receives a similar gain going from OpenGL to Vulkan. My money is on OpenGL is so inefficient that simply going to Vulkan let's GPUs flex their muscles.

 

DX12 really hasn't shown any real benefit on anything aside from Ashes.

Probably because ashes is one of the only games written from the ground up on DX12

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
15 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:
  1. @VagabondWraith has a 7820X (quite a bit better than the 1700)
  2. At least he paid more for better performance. With Vega you're paying more for less performance (1080 Ti is cheaper and better than Vega)

With vega you're doing nothing of the sort. We don't have real price and performances.

It'd be so stupid for them to do that that it is improbable they sell a gpu at the 1080ti price point without it being close or better than it.

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5 hours ago, zMeul said:

that's utter insanity, it would be a 600+W card

how the fuck would you even power it? the 8pin PCie are rated for 150W, the PCIe connector can supply 75W

 

reminds me of this:

-snip-

Actually an 8 pin connector is capable of doing 250W, it's just the people who created the ATX PSU specifications wanted to have pity on all those shoddy PSUs that can't actually deliver what they're rated for :P

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Posted
Just now, BuckGup said:

Probably because ashes is one of the only games written from the ground up on DX12

While that may be the case, Ashes is also the only game that will easily saturate a CPU. Ashes is a CPU bound game in real time, so the benefit of DX12 shows much better here than most other games.

I have a blog! And a list of guides I've posted

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2 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

With vega you're doing nothing of the sort. We don't have real price and performances.

We have performance numbers? Vega FE is pretty much an RX Vega with different drivers, don't expect Vega to get a 25-30% performance boost from better drivers.

3 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

It'd be so stupid for them to do that that it is improbable they sell a gpu at the 1080ti price point without it being close or better than it.

It would be stupid but it's not impossible. Vega isn't cheap to manufacture, it has a HUGE die and uses HBM2, which is not cheap.

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Posted
5 hours ago, tom_w141 said:

Also @ some of the people in this thread talking 2-4 vega gpus on 1 card. May I have a go on whatever you are smoking?

The smoking power cables feeding the card :P

Donate your unused computer resources for cancer and other research. For Zinsey ❤

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

HardOCP "Feels" test between Vega and GTX 1080Ti
 

 

So basically AMD is conceding the high end to NVidia and banking on people going out and buying a new FreeSync monitor. If they had a competitor, they'd show off performance numbers.

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20 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

We have performance numbers? Vega FE is pretty much an RX Vega with different drivers, don't expect Vega to get a 25-30% performance boost from better drivers.

It would be stupid but it's not impossible. Vega isn't cheap to manufacture, it has a HUGE die and uses HBM2, which is not cheap.

We don't have performance numbers for the RX cards anyway. For all we know they added CUs to make up for lack of performance or tiled rasterization. We do know it performs better than a titan in some cases so it could be there.

2 minutes ago, VagabondWraith said:

So basically AMD is conceding the high end to NVidia and banking on people going out and buying a new FreeSync monitor. If they had a competitor, they'd show off performance numbers.

Where have you seen that in this video?

They tested it with a 1080ti, and we know it's a ti version, and it felt the same. If it's priced the same, well that's a competitor right there, since what you lost in performance in non doom games you'll lose it as well on the freesync monitor price difference, so that's fair I guess. There are few 1440p 144Hz IPS monitor without g-sync or freesync.. so it makes sense

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5 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

We don't have performance numbers for the RX cards anyway. For all we know they added CUs to make up for lack of performance or tiled rasterization. We do know it performs better than a titan in some cases so it could be there.

Where have you seen that in this video?

They tested it with a 1080ti, and we know it's a ti version, and it felt the same. If it's priced the same, well that's a competitor right there, since what you lost in performance in non doom games you'll lose it as well on the freesync monitor price difference, so that's fair I guess. There are few 1440p 144Hz IPS monitor without g-sync or freesync.. so it makes sense

AMD is not showing performance numbers, at all. They're basically comparing the cost of FreeSync vs G-Sync rather than compare RX Vega to GTX 1080 & GTX 1080 Ti. That right there tells me their product is not going to be favorable to their competitors. They're diverting their attention away from their cards onto FreeSync by setting up these tests.

CPU: Intel Core i7 7820X Cooling: Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX Mobo: MSI X299 Gaming Pro Carbon AC RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 (3000MHz/16GB 2x8) SSD: 2x Samsung 850 Evo (250/250GB) + Samsung 850 Pro (512GB) GPU: NVidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FE (W/ EVGA Hybrid Kit) Case: Corsair Graphite Series 760T (Black) PSU: SeaSonic Platinum Series (860W) Monitor: Acer Predator XB241YU (165Hz / G-Sync) Fan Controller: NZXT Sentry Mix 2 Case Fans: Intake - 2x Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 PWM / Radiator - 2x Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 PWM / Rear Exhaust - 1x Noctua NF-F12 iPPC-3000 PWM

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18 minutes ago, VagabondWraith said:

AMD is not showing performance numbers, at all. They're basically comparing the cost of FreeSync vs G-Sync rather than compare RX Vega to GTX 1080 & GTX 1080 Ti. That right there tells me their product is not going to be favorable to their competitors. They're diverting their attention away from their cards onto FreeSync by setting up these tests.

True, but total system cost IS a thing that I for one am going to consider since I need to get the whole kit and caboodle going from big expensive laptops to desktop/craptop setups.  Not that a test using the ideal game and API for AMD is persuasive in the least.  need much more comprehensive testing and pricing.

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20 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

We don't have performance numbers for the RX cards anyway. For all we know they added CUs to make up for lack of performance or tiled rasterization. We do know it performs better than a titan in some cases so it could be there.

Where have you seen that in this video?

They tested it with a 1080ti, and we know it's a ti version, and it felt the same. If it's priced the same, well that's a competitor right there, since what you lost in performance in non doom games you'll lose it as well on the freesync monitor price difference, so that's fair I guess. There are few 1440p 144Hz IPS monitor without g-sync or freesync.. so it makes sense

Uh no. They are using the same chip and the same PCB as the FE. We've known the details of maxed VEGA and that is what this is. To change the silicon this late would be enormously expensive and stupid.

 

Feels is a horrible way to differentiate. They are using a damn freesync panel vs a Gsync so that they would "feel" the same. That doesn't tell us performance that tells us the panels are working great.

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Posted
1 hour ago, VagabondWraith said:

I have a 7820X. ;) 

Sorry, that's the 8 core, I thought it's a higher clocked 7800X (that is a fairly logical assumption judging by the naming schemes in the past ^_^ I was previously referring to the recent 30-game test featuring the 429$ 7800X and the 229$ R5 1600 in which the 1600 turned out to be 1FPS slower on average and equal in minimums while being much cheaper, featuring a good cooler which can even support OC to 4GHz (noise would be very annoying though) and a 80$ mobo instead of a 280$ one... 

 

You having the eight core version doesn't change much to my point as you paid like what, 1000$ for the CPU + mobo itself while a rig with an OCd 1700 wouldn't be that much slower and it's twice as cheap... Proof here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i7-7820x-skylake-x,5127.html

 

 

Ryzen 7 1800X typically can't beat the -7820X in those scenarios. But it's certainly competitive. AMD's CPU is also $100 cheaper. On top of that, X370-based motherboards cost a lot less than Intel's X299 platform, and liquid-cooling isn't a requirement in Ryzen's case. Without question, the 1800X on an X370 motherboard presents a compelling alternative to Intel's overpriced combo.

 

This quote applies even more to a 1700+B350 combo which is significantly cheaper than the 1800X+X370.

 

My point still stands ;) You can't bash Vega for those particular things and people who'd buy it at that rumored price and performance combined with power consumption because you did exactly the same with your X299 purchase.

1 hour ago, PCGuy_5960 said:
  1. @VagabondWraith has a 7820X (quite a bit better than the 1700)
  2. At least he paid more for better performance. With Vega you're paying more for less performance (1080 Ti is cheaper and better than Vega)

The above explanation still stands here ;) He didn't make the purchase based on what was best for the money, he bought it because it was from Intel and he openly states that in his user title :P 

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2 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

What's these guys' track record on rumors vs Bits and Chips?

Very hit and miss.

They post a lot of outrageous stuff, mostly pro-AMD or anti-Nvidia/anti-Intel. Some ends up being true, some ends up being completely false.

 

Some things I can remember of the top of my head:

  • Ryzen would run at below 1v for the 3.6GHz version (reality is more like 1.3v).
  • There would be an extreme edition Ryzen chip with an unlocked multiplier.
  • Lied about async not being disabled on GCN cards after an update in September (they first it was not disabled, and then they posted a story about it being enabled again).
  • Kaby Lake would have a soldered IHS.
  • The 2017 Macbook would have an AMD CPU in it.
  • Ryzen would have infinite turbo, as long as you could keep it cool enough and it didn't draw over a certain amount (in reality, the turbo is very limited).
  • Ryzen would have a lot faster L3 cache than Broadwell-E.
  • Ryzen was not delayed and would be in stores at the end of 2016.

By the way, B&C has the guts to claim that almost 100% of their Ryzen rumors they posted were accurate. In reality, it might not even have been 50% that were accurate.

 

I do believe that it will be priced competitively though. It would be stupid to assume anything else.

AMD will price it so that the price:performance ends up being very similar to Nvidia's cards.

 

 

1 hour ago, Valentyn said:

HardOCP "Feels" test between Vega and GTX 1080Ti

That test should be seen as an insult to everyone who watches it.

Does HardOCP TV think their viewers are mentally handicapped? What a useless test.

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It would make a lot of sense to me if the top end Vega GPU is in fact a dual gpu card. That would place the lowest card at 1070 (same as the Frontier), the middle card and one we have seen shown off possibly at the 1080 performance, and the top end card being a dual gpu. Further, looking at the prices of the 290x vs the 295x2 you would see that the dual GPU card is actually close to triple the price of the next highest. This would put the middle card around 350-400 with the dual gpu enthusiast card around 3x at 1100-1200.

If this is true I would foresee the Vega2 card (with 1 being top and 3 being the FE) being a very good buy, with 1080 performance at or below 1070 prices. And frankly I know that a lot of people around here want more bleeding edge tech, but its the middle to low-end enthusiast tech that actually makes a difference in the market.

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They shouldn't have focused on getting HBM2 into consumer grade cards. Not with the expense associated with it. They should have left it for their Firepro cards and stuck with GDDR5/GDDR5X for consumers to lower the price..

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6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Very hit and miss.

i dont follow them much but i remember them being close if not spon on for the price of Ryzen, atleast within Sweden, from what im assumeing are the same sources they are getting this information from.

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2 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

We have performance numbers? Vega FE is pretty much an RX Vega with different drivers, don't expect Vega to get a 25-30% performance boost from better drivers.

It would be stupid but it's not impossible. Vega isn't cheap to manufacture, it has a HUGE die and uses HBM2, which is not cheap.

Though, you do have to remember that Vega FE is currently running on Fiji drivers made to work with it, as well as having the tile-based rasterising (only render what's on screen afaik, I could be wrong) disabled in drivers last time I checked. So don't quote me on this, but it's possible you might get a 5-15% performance boost just from driver improvements.

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1 minute ago, TheRandomness said:

you do have to remember that Vega FE is currently running on Fiji drivers made to work with it

As far as I know, this has never been confirmed. Everything I can find speaks against it, unless you assume that AMD's driver team has just been sitting on their asses and plucked lint out of their belly buttons for about half a year. If that's the case then don't expect Vega RX to have any better drivers.

The entire concept of Vega FE running a "Fiji driver" is kind of ridiculous if you ask me, but I'd rather not go down that rabbit hole again.

 

2 minutes ago, TheRandomness said:

as well as having the tile-based rasterising (only render what's on screen afaik I could be wrong) disabled in drivers last time I checked.

Yes, TBR appears to be disabled, but you also have to remember that it is not a performance increasing feature. If it increases performance at all, then you should only expect maybe ~5%, and only in scenarios where there is a lot of pressure on the memory like 4K or above.

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Just now, LAwLz said:

As far as I know, this has never been confirmed. Everything I can find speaks against it, unless you assume that AMD's driver team has just been sitting on their asses and plucked lint out of their belly buttons for about half a year. If that's the case then don't expect Vega RX to have any better drivers.

The entire concept of Vega FE running a "Fiji driver" is kind of ridiculous if you ask me, but I'd rather not go down that rabbit hole again.

 

Yes, TBR appears to be disabled, but you also have to remember that it is not a performance increasing feature. If it increases performance at all, then you should only expect maybe ~5%, and only in scenarios where there is a lot of pressure on the memory like 4K or above.

I will admit the TBR stuff is more of a power saving thing (which is what Vega needs, lets face it :P) And remember, these are also AMD drivers, so don't expect perfect ones to come on day one xD Though, if they were trying to meet a deadline for the launch of Vega (aka end of Q2), it'd make sense for them to just rig some drivers to have Vega just work before the actual launch date, so that reviewers and such could go ahead with the frontier edition and then guesstimate performance of RX Vega from there. Who knows, RX Vega may come with amazing day one drivers, though they'd have to test the Vega FE cards once more, against RX Vega.

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43 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Does HardOCP TV think their viewers are mentally handicapped? What a useless test.

In point of fact, the only tests that should actually matter would be true double blind studies(Level 1 Tech apparently doesn't understand the term) across a plethora of games along with a pair of high-speed cameras oriented at the monitors. However these take time and significant amounts of effort to set up so no one does them. Instead you get numbers on framerate which apart from narrow use cases don't directly apply and faux blind tests like what HardOCP did. Not to mention you would have to have two identical Intel systems and two identical Ryzen systems in order to account for card optimizations.

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11 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

It's probably a dual GPU/2 on one PCB that they never talked about if the price is that high.  I mean it's not like AMD wouldn't do that.

In before it using over 600w. A far more hungry r9 295x2... Yeah I'll pass on that.

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