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Top Tier RX Vega card rumored to be more expensive then the GTX 1080TI

Bananasplit_00
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900-1000€ is about what a nice 1080ti cost here. 900€ is a strix card and 1k is a hybrid.

Though this is making me kinda sad, since it is much cheaper to get a free sync monitor than it is to get a G-sync monitor.

Before you buy amp and dac.  My thoughts on the M50x  Ultimate Ears Reference monitor review I might have a thing for audio...

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Posted
7 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

If the pricing rumour isn't wrong, then a dual-GPU sounds like a plausible possibility. Two ~GTX 1080-performing chips on one card should cost more than a GTX 1080 Ti.

 

The two systems were running 3440x1440p, and one of the players questioned says that the 1080 Ti stayed between 60 and 120 FPS, while the Vega system sometimes dipped below 60 FPS when there was a lot of stuff on the screen. Neither of those performance descriptions sound like they should, considering a GTX 1080 gets 80 - 140 FPS while running DOOM at 3440x1440.

 

It was all that AMD allowed them to do before taking the Vega GPU back home with them at the end of the day. Kyle says at the end of the video that it is entirely non-scientific and subjective, but it sounds like it was either that, or nothing. And that's better than nothing. AMD had also wanted to compare it to a GTX 1080, but Kyle insisted on comparing it to a GTX 1080 Ti. I think of it more as a fun teaser, and also an example of how people's perceptions, and game runs can differ.

I think once people get numbers they immediately want that extra 4FPS for $100 more

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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52 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Idk, I kinda feel like "feels" tests don't tell much.

They do.  At the end of the day the "feels" are the thing that matter the most, especially when we're talking about something in which the primary use is centered around entertainment/enjoyment.  There is absolutely a place for subjective testing and reasoning; however there's still a need for objective hardlined tests and numbers to frame the picture.  Subjective tests can do a better job of addressing concerns, or fears, about choosing from either costly platform (gsync/freesync), its just that without the objective angle it doesn't count for much on its own.

 

Anyways, none off that matters if this rumour is true.  1080 perf for 1080ti $ is complete bollocks, you'd have to be an idiot.

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18 minutes ago, MoonSpot said:

At the end of the day the "feels" are the thing that matter the most, especially when we're talking about something in which the primary use is centered around entertainment/enjoyment.  There is absolutely a place for subjective testing and reasoning; however there's still a need for objective hardlined tests and numbers to frame the picture.

The problem is that even blind tests like the one attempted by HARD OCP* are difficult to do correctly and are certainly expensive when done correctly. Of course, there's also the fact that generally the frame provided by the objective tests is crooked as fuck. It's getting better as people start to include min framerates and max frametimes, but then you introduce freesync and gsync into the mix and it gets all screwy again.

 

 

 

*Which wasn't even properly a single blind test because the people went into the test knowing what they were measuring and there was no control.

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19 minutes ago, MoonSpot said:

They do.  At the end of the day the "feels" are the thing that matter the most, especially when we're talking about something in which the primary use is centered around entertainment/enjoyment.  There is absolutely a place for subjective testing and reasoning; however there's still a need for objective hardlined tests and numbers to frame the picture.  Subjective tests can do a better job of addressing concerns, or fears, about choosing from either costly platform (gsync/freesync), its just that without the objective angle it doesn't count for much on its own.

 

Anyways, none off that matters if this rumour is true.  1080 perf for 1080ti $ is complete bollocks, you'd have to be an idiot.

I disagree.

Subjective tests are flawed unless done under very strict conditions and in large sample sizes. But even then they can be flawed.

 

Just take a GPU review as an example.

Let's say we put Card1 up against Card2 in a test.

 

We have a 60Hz monitor without any fancy framerate syncing feature in it.

Card1 pushing out 150 FPS and Card2 can only manage 75 FPS.

 

How would a blind tester react to this? Most would say that Card2 seemed better. The FPS is above the monitor's refresh rate so smoothness won't be an issue on either card, but Card1 will have much more tearing. Does that mean that Card2 is a better buy, even if the cards are equal at everything else including price? Of course not. You'd have to be an idiot to pay the same amount for half of the performance. Yet that's what the blind test would end up showing.

Especially if you are going to play games in the future where the FPS difference might be 60 FPS on Card1, and 30 FPS on Card2.

 

Then when you start skewing the results even more by changing out the monitor between tests, and the prices are different and so on the test becomes meaningless.

 

Hell, I am willing to bet that people would confidently choose one system over the other even if both setups were exactly the same. How do I know that? Because there has been a ton of studies about this when it comes to audio. Once you tell a person there is a difference, they will subliminally find a difference, even if it's just placebo.

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Yikes, AMD just pulled another Fury X :/ 

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This is assuming there are any available to purchase on launch day, let alone within a month or two after launch day.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

I disagree.

Subjective tests are flawed unless done under very strict conditions and in large sample sizes. But even then they can be flawed.

 

Just take a GPU review as an example.

Let's say we put Card1 up against Card2 in a test.

 

We have a 60Hz monitor without any fancy framerate syncing feature in it.

Card1 pushing out 150 FPS and Card2 can only manage 75 FPS.

 

How would a blind tester react to this? Most would say that Card2 seemed better. The FPS is above the monitor's refresh rate so smoothness won't be an issue on either card, but Card1 will have much more tearing. Does that mean that Card2 is a better buy, even if the cards are equal at everything else including price? Of course not. You'd have to be an idiot to pay the same amount for half of the performance. Yet that's what the blind test would end up showing.

Especially if you are going to play games in the future where the FPS difference might be 60 FPS on Card1, and 30 FPS on Card2.

 

Then when you start skewing the results even more by changing out the monitor between tests, and the prices are different and so on the test becomes meaningless.

 

Hell, I am willing to bet that people would confidently choose one system over the other even if both setups were exactly the same. How do I know that? Because there has been a ton of studies about this when it comes to audio. Once you tell a person there is a difference, they will subliminally find a difference, even if it's just placebo.

I'll add this: The higher the frame rate the lower the overall input latency (the time between moving the mouse and seeing a reaction on screen-also helped by a 1000Hz polling rate on the mouse) and the more responsive game-play feels.

Edit: For those that say 1000Hz polling rates can damage USB ports/devices.....USB is designed for polling rates up to 1000Hz.

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AMD is a large multinational corporation, I think they know that if they price a card that performs equalish to a 1070/1080, to more than a 1080ti they arent gonna move many units. HBM2 is expensive but AMD isn't literally stupid. I would hazard a guess that it's an inflated price, or perhaps the watercooled version, maybe even a factory OC'd model?

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54 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

The problem is that even blind tests like the one attempted by HARD OCP* are difficult to do correctly and are certainly expensive when done correctly. Of course, there's also the fact that generally the frame provided by the objective tests is crooked as fuck. It's getting better as people start to include min framerates and max frametimes, but then you introduce freesync and gsync into the mix and it gets all screwy again.

 

 

 

*Which wasn't even properly a single blind test because the people went into the test knowing what they were measuring and there was no control.

Yep.  Bet it'd be nice to be able to sit in front of a freesync setup and an equivalent g-sync setup to get a feel for that screwy part, eh? [/end Canadian accent]

47 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I disagree.

Subjective tests are flawed unless done under very strict conditions and in large sample sizes. But even then they can be flawed.

 

Just take a GPU review as an example.

Let's say we put Card1 up against Card2 in a test.

 

We have a 60Hz monitor without any fancy framerate syncing feature in it.

Card1 pushing out 150 FPS and Card2 can only manage 75 FPS.

 

How would a blind tester react to this? Most would say that Card2 seemed better. The FPS is above the monitor's refresh rate so smoothness won't be an issue on either card, but Card1 will have much more tearing. Does that mean that Card2 is a better buy, even if the cards are equal at everything else including price? Of course not. You'd have to be an idiot to pay the same amount for half of the performance. Yet that's what the blind test would end up showing.

Especially if you are going to play games in the future where the FPS difference might be 60 FPS on Card1, and 30 FPS on Card2.

 

Then when you start skewing the results even more by changing out the monitor between tests, and the prices are different and so on the test becomes meaningless.

 

Hell, I am willing to bet that people would confidently choose one system over the other even if both setups were exactly the same. How do I know that? Because there has been a ton of studies about this when it comes to audio. Once you tell a person there is a difference, they will subliminally find a difference, even if it's just placebo.

Depends what you're trying to address, though for the most part I agree.  If the only purpose of a subjective view is to say that "they both do the "same thing"**, they're both great.  I didn't notice a difference.  Felt the same".  Then great.  At least if one is better than the other, the other one isn't complete garbage.
I did say a subjective view/test isn't particularly useful without some objective tests.  So...I think we're more or less in agreement, sorta?

I'm not going to speak to your examples as I'd rather not get whisked away to La-La land of ifs, maybes, and couldas.  Especially when you're baking in extremes.

In this instance both systems were set up to be as identical as realistically possible with only the cards and monitors being different, and HOCP specifically stated the lengths to which they went make it such.  Just breakdown this instance so its relevant to the topic if you want to.

 

 

**Same-same; but different

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Posted
10 hours ago, laminutederire said:

To be fair it's the same price as their 1080ti.

It isn't, though:

 

https://hardforum.com/threads/amd-radeon-rx-vega-prices-rumored-to-be-around-850.1940627/#post-1043131451

 

 

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 the current [Vega] pricing is detailed to be around 7,000 SEK excluding VAT, which equates to roughly $850 when transferred into US currency. 

 

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I averaged up the price of all the 1080's on Komplett.se, which is 6692.65.65kr, which means 7000kr is 4.59% higher than the average 1080.

 

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1080Ti listed for 8499kr. 

 

 

The GTX 1080 prices are averaged from here: https://www.komplett.se/kampanj/11245/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060-gtx-1070-och-gtx-1080?tag=gtx1080

 

So, to me, it looks like it's going to cost a small bit more than what a GTX 1080 costs in a given market. We'll see, though.

 

Nvidia also charged $100 extra for their 10XX FE cards. I wonder if AMD might be doing similar.

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Posted
10 hours ago, arnavvr said:

Yikes, AMD just pulled another Fury X :/ 

So it's going to compete with the 1080Ti and just be a tad slower at 1080p and 1440p?

 

Cause the Fury X at least competed with the 980Ti reference cards.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

It isn't, though:

 

https://hardforum.com/threads/amd-radeon-rx-vega-prices-rumored-to-be-around-850.1940627/#post-1043131451

 

The GTX 1080 prices are averaged from here: https://www.komplett.se/kampanj/11245/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060-gtx-1070-och-gtx-1080?tag=gtx1080

 

So, to me, it looks like it's going to cost a small bit more than what a GTX 1080 costs in a given market. We'll see, though.

 

Nvidia also charged $100 extra for their 10XX FE cards. I wonder if AMD might be doing similar.

That Vega RX price is excluding VAT. Those 1080 Ti prices are including VAT.

VAT in Sweden is 25%. So in order to make it a fair comparison you need to add 25% to the price of the Vega card, which results in these prices:

Vega RX - 8750 SEK.

GTX 1080 (average including the really expensive models such as water cooled one) - 6700 SEK.

 

For comparison, you can find several 1080 Tis in Sweden for around 8000 SEK (again, including the water cooled cards and other extreme editions really skewed the average price of the 1080).

So if these rumors are true (which I kind of doubt, looking at the performance numbers of Vega Fe) then Vega RX might end up costing more than a 1080 Ti. At least in Sweden if the prices are correct.

 

I don't think the people working at AMD are idiots though. The Vega RX will most likely have a price:performance similar to a 1080. If it costs more than a 1080 Ti then it will probably perform better than one (which I really don't expect will happen).

 

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