Judge: It's OK If Best Buy's Geek Squad Nerds Search Your PC for Illegal Content

[SlipperyPete]

`deleted`

[LAwLz]

1 minute ago, goodtofufriday said:

The contracts also stipulate that, in the case where backups are being made onsite, they cannot be removed off site and are locked away after closing hours. 

 

These contracts are written by lawyers that have some semblance of what they are doing. 

That makes the situation slightly better, but I still think it is bad that GeekSquad gets permission to actively search for things on your computer. It's one thing to accidentally see things, but it's another to allow them to go "hey, this girl has nudes of herself that she deleted. I'm gonna look at them!".

[CmHall9]

58 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

@CmHall9 Please fix your formatting including adding the quote box for quotes.

OK, done. I hope this is better.

 

[ARikozuM]

Just now, CmHall9 said:

OK, done. I hope this is better.

Much better, but could you highlight the quoted text and remove formating? It's the T_x icon on the toolbar.

[CmHall9]

Is that better? It looked fine on my end. 

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, CmHall9 said:

Is that better? It looked fine on my end. 

Perfect! Now you won't hear us dark theme users b#tch and whine! Unless you make the same mistake again... [insert sinister laugh]

[elfensky]

Well, I mean, it's YOUR responsibility to get rid of the data on the HDDs if you're selling/giving them away.

Either format them multiple times or just destroy them.

 

I DO NOT agree that the judge it right to promote searching through donated storage media, but what Geeksquad does with the components YOU gave them is their business - if you didn't want then snooping you should have either formatted them properly or destroyed them - giving away other parts of your system.

 

edit: nevermind, I just read the article properly and realized the doctor asked GS to recover the data, and it wasnt a donated part.

[Jito463]

1 minute ago, ElfenSky said:

Well, I mean, it's YOUR responsibility to get rid of the data on the HDDs if you're selling them. Either format them multiple times or just destroy them.

 

What geekssquad does with your components after you've sold/donated them to them is their own business - they own it now, so they can/should be able to do whatever.

This wasn't an abandoned computer, this was a computer with a failed HDD that the customer asked GS to recover the data from.

[elfensky]

1 minute ago, Jito463 said:

This wasn't an abandoned computer, this was a computer with a failed HDD that the customer asked GS to recover the data from.

Yeah, I was just about to edit and rewrite my whole reply, as I skimmed through the article.

[Taf the Ghost]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

That makes the situation slightly better, but I still think it is bad that GeekSquad gets permission to actively search for things on your computer. It's one thing to accidentally see things, but it's another to allow them to go "hey, this girl has nudes of herself that she deleted. I'm gonna look at them!".

The subtle detail from the article itself is that this was a deleted thumbnail. Which means it wasn't even someone searching through folders/pictures and seeing something. This was clearly a program that's designed to scan the computer for images then check them against the CP databases. (It creates a hash and checks that hash.) This isn't some incidental search of the computer, it's a sector-level search of the the computer after they've copied it all.  

 

It sounds a lot like they were using a commercial version of the programs that the FBI labs use for handling data recovery/investigation cases.

[Energycore]

So wait. If a Geek Squad member places such an image on a customer's hard drive, then deletes it and reports to the FBI that it was found in the deleted area, there's no way anyone can know it was them. I feel like this ruling can be very much appealed as there is no way to prevent this exploit to frame someone.

[Zodiark1593]

5 hours ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

They said they saw a thumbnail which in Windows is a preview of an image. That is the default Windows settings, if the guy thought that they wouldn't see it, he is pretty idiotic. Whenever I do recovery, I tend to go through some directories where important client data is such as images to make sure they were recovered correctly.

 

Also Geek Squad is probably legally required by Best Buy to report child porn.

Having performed data recovery before, I too check through some immediate surface files (or those requested) to ensure data integrity.

 

5 hours ago, intender said:

In this situation I think they did the correct thing.  The employee is just following the law, and doesnt want to lose his job.  From a corporate standpoint the fallout on best buy would be crushing if it came out later that this happened and the employee didnt report it immediately.  Whether the FBI didnt follow the correct channels for raiding this guys house is up to the courts.  The way I feel about it is you have child porn on your computer you deserve to go to jail.  Unless there is some possibility that he bought the computer second hand or bought a used or refurbished drive and can prove that, and that they need to going after somebody else he is liable for having that on his computer.  just like if you get caught with drugs in your car and nobody else in the car claims it belongs to them then they assume its yours. 

The issue that arises is that even in the event that defendant is found innocent, a legally innocent individual gets his/her name dragged through the mud, and can result in long term damage due to tarnishment.

 

For the bolded part, the burden of proof is on the prosecution. The prosecution must prove that the defendant had control of the data on the drive in question, and prove that the defendant knowingly and willingly downloaded the illicit material. The standard of proof in such a case is beyond reasonable doubt. A mere assumption, or probable cause, will not hold up in a criminal trial, and at best (barring a crooked Judge), would only get you as far as a search warrant.

 

[Energycore]

4 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

Much better, but could you highlight the quoted text and remove formating? It's the T_x icon on the toolbar.

I would recommend grabbing the text and selecting font - automatic, rather than remove formatting, because that way you don't do away with bolding or hyperlinks.

[Belgarathian]

I want to know what service they were carrying out that required them to recover files/data and check them before handing the computer back. That sounds like they were invading a customers privacy, or we searching for something. 

 

I'd sue them if I was American.

[divito]

6 hours ago, Orangeator said:

"can't expect privacy" for a service you are paying them to do? So what you are saying is if a celebrity turns her laptop into geek squad and they recover nudes, it's okay for them to release the photo's because well you turned it over to geek squad, you don't have the right to privacy for what is on that drive. Slippery slope my friend.

Sorry, but releasing them publicly is wholly different than alerting the authorities to potentially illegal activities. Not even sure how you could relate the two.

[Orangeator]

2 minutes ago, divito said:

Sorry, but releasing them publicly is wholly different than alerting the authorities to potentially illegal activities. Not even sure how you could relate the two.

I can't relate them, I was just directly responding to what he said. He said you don't have privacy once you give it to geeksquad. Saying that means what I said could happen by that logic.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, huilun02 said:

Does privacy not stand for anything anymore?

 

1 minute ago, Belgarathian said:

That sounds like they were invading a customers privacy

When one takes a system into a system servicing business, such as BestBuy's Geek Squad, one consents to potential data integrity checks, software installation verification, and perhaps light testing of said system. Long and short, you take it in to get serviced, you're agreeing to momentarily give up any claim to privacy for the duration of the servicing. They find something illegal and report it during said servicing, they're well within their rights, and are likely actually legally obligated.

 

Same if you were to get your car serviced, or you called for maintenance/remodel of your house.

 

4 minutes ago, Belgarathian said:

I'd sue them if I was American.

You'd likely lose, unless the lawyers shop around for jurors that are anti-corporation and will ignore fact just to "stick it to the man."

[divito]

Just now, Orangeator said:

I can't relate them, I was just directly responding to what he said. He said you don't have privacy once you give it to geeksquad. Saying that means what I said could happen by that logic.

I think with common, and legal sense, handing anything with private data to a third party, whether photos to a photo lab, computer to a technician, etc..., you're temporarily forgoing your right to privacy. And again, the company illegally and publically releasing or personally storing your information is quite a different story than coming across something that's illegal and reporting it to the proper authorities.

No different than a car detailer being asked to clean a client's car with suspicious stains, or a large amount of blood in the trunk. Could be from hunting, but I've seen at least one story where at least pass the information onto police, and the police take those car details and footage near the crime scene shows the car, helping the prosecution. Did that killer deserve privacy? 

Now, in other cases, sure it might be harmless, but that's part of the process. If you want a world where justice happens, authorities need the information and latitude to investigate.

[Grant L]

Please imagine for a moment that the thumbnail that this geeksquad technician found was acquired unintentionally by browsing some legal site. As in, his browser cached it.

 

Search your hard drive for files with something like Recuva, I'm sure you'll find a slew of cached thumbnails from web pages...

 

Although that wasn't the case here, it would suck to be that person if it was...

[Mirdon]

I bet the original intention was to see if it had some "private videos".

[Taf the Ghost]

3 hours ago, Belgarathian said:

I want to know what service they were carrying out that required them to recover files/data and check them before handing the computer back. That sounds like they were invading a customers privacy, or we searching for something. 

 

I'd sue them if I was American.

He's in CA. I imagine, after the Criminal side of things is done, that there will be a long series of civil suits against Best Buy.

 

He contracted with Best Buy to ship his dead HDD to Kentucky for sector-level copy.  So, Data Recovery & Copy.

2 hours ago, Grant L said:

Please imagine for a moment that the thumbnail that this geeksquad technician found was acquired unintentionally by browsing some legal site. As in, his browser cached it.

 

Search your hard drive for files with something like Recuva, I'm sure you'll find a slew of cached thumbnails from web pages...

 

Although that wasn't the case here, it would suck to be that person if it was...

It was a deleted file.  Which means someone hit the HDD with a program specifically looking for these types of files.  While they have a legal obligation to report something if it's suspicious, that's rather different than using an advanced tool that would specifically look through all of the image files on a computer and check it against know lists of "bad" images. Since there's a requirement to report "bad" images to the FBI, using a forensic search tool on the HDD is a de facto FBI search of someone's "papers" without their consent or probable cause.  That's a big no-no.

[mr moose]

4 hours ago, Energycore said:

So wait. If a Geek Squad member places such an image on a customer's hard drive, then deletes it and reports to the FBI that it was found in the deleted area, there's no way anyone can know it was them. I feel like this ruling can be very much appealed as there is no way to prevent this exploit to frame someone.

 

3 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Anyone not feel it too easy for the geek squad to add incriminating material and frame customers?

Does privacy not stand for anything anymore?

 

Wasn't he found innocent because there was no way to prove he intentionally acquired the file.   Therefore it is not likely that Geeksquad placing and deleting files is going to get anyone in trouble unless they are already suspects and have been under watch (read guilty with other evidence anyway). So if it isn't evidence and there is no other evidence then justice is good. 

 

Even all that aside,  Assuming someone did try to intentionally frame a customer (shooting yourself in the foot) the image would have to come from somewhere and if the customer was found innocent then investigations might just turn on the store employee.    Investigators aren't stupid and would likely keep a close eye that (defense lawyers are good at undermining the validity of evidence).

[Mooshi]

If you're gonna do something illegal, doing it on a Windows OS you gave a stranger full access to is deserving of a Darwin award.

[JoostinOnline]

I'm a self-employed computer technician, and I'm dreading the day I accidentally see something illegal on a customer's computer.  I go out of my way to avoid seeing anything, but sometimes you can't help it.  I've definitely seen things I wish I hadn't.  If I ever see anything illegal though, I don't know what my liability is.  Can I get in trouble for going to the cops?  Will I get in trouble if I don't and it's discovered?  It's just a mess.

[mr moose]

40 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

I'm a self-employed computer technician, and I'm dreading the day I accidentally see something illegal on a customer's computer.  I go out of my way to avoid seeing anything, but sometimes you can't help it.  I've definitely seen things I wish I hadn't.  If I ever see anything illegal though, I don't know what my liability is.  Can I get in trouble for going to the cops?  Will I get in trouble if I don't and it's discovered?  It's just a mess.

 

If it really troubles you I would pretend I didn't see anything, (do what you have to to avoid their being evidence you did).  Then wait a couple of weeks and make an anonymous report to the police from a public phone.  That way the customer won't think it was you, you have done the right thing and don't have to go through the rigmarole of giving testimonial.

 

EDIT: or just tell the cops right away and tell the truth, You won't get in trouble with them, but you may have to fear some sort of revenge from the client or their family depending on what it is you see.