Judge: It's OK If Best Buy's Geek Squad Nerds Search Your PC for Illegal Content

[JoostinOnline]

46 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

If it really troubles you I would pretend I didn't see anything, (do what you have to to avoid their being evidence you did).  Then wait a couple of weeks and make an anonymous report to the police from a public phone.  That way the customer won't think it was you, you have done the right thing and don't have to go through the rigmarole of giving testimonial.

 

EDIT: or just tell the cops right away and tell the truth, You won't get in trouble with them, but you may have to fear some sort of revenge from the client or their family depending on what it is you see.

With the ridiculous things people sue over now (*points to "The Incredibles" as evidence*), I would honestly expect to be sued for testifying. Even if I won, I'd still have to spend money on legal defense.

 

I even spoke to a lawyer, and he said he didn't know what would be the best course of action. 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

With the ridiculous things people sue over now (*points to "The Incredibles" as evidence*), I would honestly expect to be sued for testifying. Even if I won, I'd still have to spend money on legal defense.

 

I even spoke to a lawyer, and he said he didn't know what would be the best course of action. 

Sounds to me like the best course of action is to do nothing unless what you find is really serious (pedo stuff), then just wait a few weeks and dob them in anonymously.  If anyone asks after that you can plead ignorance.  You can't be sued or land in legal trouble for not claiming to see something you didn't.

[Sauron]

15 hours ago, CmHall9 said:

Is it just me or does this sound like the Geek Squad employee went out of their way in order to find this file? Replacing an HDD and transferring files does not require you visually inspect each and every file.

Well of course he did if he was promised 1000 bucks for any dirt he could dig up on customers.

 

As to whether it's ok or not, it all goes back to the age old argument - sure, child molesters and pedophiles should rot in jail and I won't complain about tactics that bring them in. On the other hand, what would prevent these people from filing a report on political orientation and such if they find files that hint to that?

 

I guess you should just hard wipe your drive with 0s before you hand it in to best buy (unless you're a pedophile).

[Carclis]

9 hours ago, divito said:

I think with common, and legal sense, handing anything with private data to a third party, whether photos to a photo lab, computer to a technician, etc..., you're temporarily forgoing your right to privacy. And again, the company illegally and publically releasing or personally storing your information is quite a different story than coming across something that's illegal and reporting it to the proper authorities.

No different than a car detailer being asked to clean a client's car with suspicious stains, or a large amount of blood in the trunk. Could be from hunting, but I've seen at least one story where at least pass the information onto police, and the police take those car details and footage near the crime scene shows the car, helping the prosecution. Did that killer deserve privacy? 

Now, in other cases, sure it might be harmless, but that's part of the process. If you want a world where justice happens, authorities need the information and latitude to investigate.

There is a difference between recovering data and searching through it just as there is a difference between a hotel doorman bringing your luggage to your room and dissecting it. The situation painted by the article suggests that information wasn't happened upon, but actively searched for because the FBI offer cash incentives to report cases of illegal activity. This naturally creates a conflict of interest since Geek Squad is incentivised to actively search for incriminating evidence with the motive and means to implant something of that nature on their customers.
 

Quote

 

"Defense lawyers argued that the FBI was using Geek Squad technicians as a way to skirt privacy laws and search for data for which they would usually have need probable cause and a warrant.

Furthermore, lawyers found that the FBI was paying these Geek Squad employees between $500 and $1,000 per each report they filed."

 

Reporting of illegal activity should be mandatory regardless and should never have any monetary incentive.

[suits]

Wow this is a dangerous precedent. Rip our court system.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

18 hours ago, CmHall9 said:

Is it just me or does this sound like the Geek Squad employee went out of their way in order to find this file? Replacing an HDD and transferring files does not require you visually inspect each and every file.

 

Well, maybe the answer is in the article you quote:

Quote

Furthermore, lawyers found that the FBI was paying these Geek Squad employees between $500 and $1,000 per each report they filed.

 

17 hours ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

They said they saw a thumbnail which in Windows is a preview of an image. That is the default Windows settings, if the guy thought that they wouldn't see it, he is pretty idiotic.

Not a "live" thumbnail, but the remains of a deleted thumbnail in the unallocated space of the hard drive.

 

17 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

While I wouldn't say that Geek Squad has the authority to check for illegal content, they do have the obligation to report illegal content. 

 

Just saying, if you don't want something found, don't put it where it can be found.

Same as above: we know that deleted data may be recovered if it's a normal deletion, but a deleted file isn't really "put where it can be found".

 

Regarding the ruling itself, I think it's tricky to give a quick answer, but I can see the judge's point: while it would probably be at least dubious to have the Geek Squad performing systematic searches without being neither policemen nor authorized by a judge, and although that may  be happening due to the financial incentives, it will be very hard to proof. And since they can always argue that they "stumbled upon" the file (which is more or less what they were saying, although you hardly "stumble upon" a deleted file when trying to save non-deleted files from a failing HDD), it's probably admissible evidence.

 

The second part of the ruling (without metadata, there's no ground to move further) also makes sense, since a thumbnail could end up in the unallocated part of your HDD if, for example, at any point you entered a website with such thumbnail/image being used by an advertiser, it gets to your internet temp files, and eventually it is deleted as the temp folder is cleared. Without more information, taking a guy to court based on the deleted thumbnail alone was highly premature.

[Thunderpup]

18 hours ago, Orangeator said:

The doctor has a better case than the FBI in this one without a doubt. As there wasn't a chain of custody on this evidence. Any half decent lawyer should win this case with a potential law suit against best buy.

I think best buy would be in the clear, maybe not the FBI.  If the search is in accordance with their standard operating procedures for this sort of service; then there won't be an issue.  Now if someone can prove this person went out of their way to search for said information; then maybe you might have a case.  In either scenario if illegal content is discovered they have to report it.

18 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

If this person is intelligent enough to be a doctor and decides to get involved in less than legal things I'm confused as to why they'd be dumb enough.

Being a doctor, hell even being the smartest person in the world, doesn't mean anything if you are ignorant to how computers work.  Most people think when something is deleted it is gone forever. 

17 hours ago, LAwLz said:

That makes the situation slightly better, but I still think it is bad that GeekSquad gets permission to actively search for things on your computer. 

I agree with this.  It is understandable that the technician will need to access the computer and even some files to do their job, especially with an HDD swap and recovery.  However going out of their way to search for something that may not even be there is another matter.
To me it all boils down to was the technician doing what is standard practice for the requested service, or were they hunting for potential dirt.

13 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

This was clearly a program that's designed to scan the computer for images then check them against the CP databases. (It creates a hash and checks that hash.) This isn't some incidental search of the computer, it's a sector-level search of the the computer after they've copied it all.  

No...

If the customer's HDD died and was not capable of being booted or read normally; then it in order to do some sort of file recovery a third party application would of been used to search and recover possible files.

 

Depending on the program used it may not differentiate where it looks for lost files, and reports its findings.  If the thumbnail in question is viewable (meaning the image is displayed) without clicking on it; then the tech in question was in the right to report it.  Much the way seeing a deleted word file with the name "people i plan on killing".  

 

That all being said i have no idea what program GS uses, and whether it is standard practice to include unallocated space in their searches for general HDD recovery.

 

[Windows7ge]

12 minutes ago, Thunderpup said:

Being a doctor, hell even being the smartest person in the world, doesn't mean anything if you are ignorant to how computers work.  Most people think when something is deleted it is gone forever. 

I'm familiar with people who think that but still when someone does things they shouldn't be you can never be too cautious with keeping it private. Handing the computer over to Geek Squad was carelessness. It has nothing to do with weather the data was truly deleted or not. My argument is why risk the possibility of them finding something. Seems like a lack of common sense.

[Thunderpup]

24 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

I'm familiar with people who think that but still when someone does things they shouldn't be you can never be too cautious with keeping it private. Handing the computer over to Geek Squad was carelessness. It has nothing to do with weather the data was truly deleted or not. My argument is why risk the possibility of them finding something. Seems like a lack of common sense.

Yea i get that, but my interactions with people, even really smart ones, have taught me that common sense isn't terribly common. 

[LAwLz]

25 minutes ago, Thunderpup said:

To me it all boils down to was the technician doing what is standard practice for the requested service, or were they hunting for potential dirt.

They were hunting for dirt. Like the article says, the FBI not only trains GeekSquad employees, but they also pay them money if they find illegal things on someone's computer.

[ARikozuM]

What concerns me is that the Geek Squad employees are checking for a correct recovery manually when they should be using a program that randomly searches for sample images or file names leaving the repairman in the dark as to any private content.

[Eaglerino]

I mean if a mechanic finds 10 pounds of meth in a car are they not supposed to turn it into police?

[Guest lilbman]

I agree. Don't expect privacy when you give your personal computer to the Geek Squad.  People are imperfect, and I can imagine that they get bored dealing with peoples shit, so they look through their stuff.  There's nothing that can really stop them from doing it.

 

That being said, the part about the FBI using them as a way to search people's personal computers without a warrant is not okay.  Even though I can imagine that the Geek Squad has to report anything illegal on their clients computer, the FBI paying them to report that stuff gives them an incentive to snoop.  This is supported by the fact that he went out of his way to look through every file on that hard drive when all he was tasked to do was replace it and transfer the files.

 

Because there is no way that they can tell where that photo came from, I would say there isn't enough evidence to convict him/her.

[Guest lilbman]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

They were hunting for dirt. Like the article says, the FBI not only trains GeekSquad employees, but they also pay them money if they find illegal things on someone's computer.

This sounds like a long shot, but do you think the employee planted the image there themselves to get the money for reporting it?  It doesn't sound that far off, the more you think about it.

[DildorTheDecent]

Quote

Furthermore, lawyers found that the FBI was paying these Geek Squad employees between $500 and $1,000 per each report they filed.

ez money

[79wjd]

44 minutes ago, lilbman said:

This sounds like a long shot, but do you think the employee planted the image there themselves to get the money for reporting it?  It doesn't sound that far off, the more you think about it.

That sounds like a very risky choice of profiteering considering the FBI has some pretty excellent forensic analysts.

[Guest lilbman]

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

That sounds like a very risky choice of profiteering considering the FBI has some pretty excellent forensic analysts.

Very risky indeed, but I mean c'mon-they're not making much  and they deal with peoples shit all day.  I wouldn't put it past one of them to do something like that to get some extra money for drugs or something.