Microsoft further cracks down on Kaby Lake and Ryzen usage on Windows 7 and 8.1

[captain_to_fire]

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

By the way, I think you can still give them feedback. But you have to enable full telemetry (and maybe even login with a Microsoft account) to submit it.

Oh yes you can't send feedback unless full telemetry is enabled in W10 creators update, I think in Anniversary Update it's still possible.

 

I want to know if Microsoft officials are drinking sizzurp before their briefings. 

 

[Nowak]

4 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

By the way, I think you can still give them feedback. But you have to enable full telemetry (and maybe even login with a Microsoft account) to submit it.

You don't need full telemetry, but you do need to sign into a Microsoft account to use the Feedback hub.

[captain_to_fire]

Just now, Daring said:

You don't need full telemetry, but you do need to sign into a Microsoft account to use the Feedback hub.

 

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, hey_yo_ said:

 

 

Hmm?

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, Daring said:

 

Hmm?

You can browse feedback sent by others but you can't send your own feedback unless full telemetry is enabled which kinda sucks. It's the person with chat box icon below home.

[Nowak]

Just now, hey_yo_ said:

You can browse feedback sent by others but you can't send your own feedback unless full telemetry is enabled which kinda sucks. It's the person with chat box icon below home.

Ah, I see.

[H0R53]

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

They never installed automatically on mine, nor anyone I know.  I have installed the retail pack, the oem and the upgrade. 

Bullshit bukkake.

 

Don't lie.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

 

no goal post moving,  you should probably re read my posts. Words have meaning don't read between them.

9 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

Bullshit bukkake.

 

Don't lie.

 

Great rebuttal,  he must be lying because he doesn't have the same problem that I had.

[LAwLz]

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

no goal post moving,  you should probably re read my posts. Words have meaning don't read between them.

You wrote:

11 hours ago, mr moose said:

You can take all the issues people are posting here about 10 and apply them legitimately to every other OS or piece of software.   I think people just love being the victim.

That means that according to you, the problems people have with Windows 10 exist for all other piece of software.

That is false. One of the problems I have with Windows 10 are the forced updates. Does all software have forced updates? Does even all OSes have it? Nope.

 

Another issue I got is telemetry being mandatory. Does all OSes have that? Nope.

Does some/all have it as an option? Yes, but a lot of them got it as opt-in or opt-out, not mandatory. Not all OSes does it to the same extent as Windows 10 does either.

Does all software have it? Hell no.

 

What about the issue of ads and junkware in the OS? Again, not something you find in all programs and definitely not in all OSes.

 

So no, far from all the complaints people have about Windows 10 applies to every other OS or piece of software. Stop talking bullshit.

[mr moose]

Just now, LAwLz said:

You wrote:

 

 

That means that according to you, the problems people have with Windows 10 exist for all other piece of software.

That is false. One of the problems I have with Windows 10 are the forced updates. Does all software have forced updates? Does even all OSes have it? Nope.

 

Another issue I got is telemetry being mandatory. Does all OSes have that? Nope.

Does some/all have it as an option? Yes, but a lot of them got it as opt-in or opt-out, not mandatory. Not all OSes does it to the same extent as Windows 10 does either.

Does all software have it? Hell no.

 

What about the issue of ads and junkware in the OS? Again, not something you find in all programs and definitely not in all OSes.

 

So no, far from all the complaints people have about Windows 10 applies to every other OS or piece of software. Stop talking bullshit.

NO, it means every other OS has legit issues that exist in windows 10.   This maybe a problem with grammar or just the way we interpret words, however the end result is the same.  It simply means that every other os will have some of those issues too.  I even pointed that out using differing examples of the issues. You'll note I did not say OSX has all the same problems, or Linux has all the same problems. becasue that was not my message.  In fact, I even indicated telemetry was "almost the same" as win 10, becasue I acknowledge there is more to it than what apple implement.  "Almost" being the crucial adverb in that sentence.

 

I'm sorry you feel so adamant that only MS can be guilty of all these atrocities.   If you ever have to use an android tablet, I am sure you won't feel your privacy has been invaded with private data being sent back to google, or the next time you can't get hardware setup on linux because it just isn't supported.   Because only win 10 has those issues right?

 

 

 

 

[Dabombinable]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

They did collect feedback in the beginning (during testing, and a while after release).

The problem was that they ignored a lot of it.

 

Don't ship with bloatware? Ignored.

Make it possible to turn off auto-update? Ignored.

Add transparency to the task bar, start menu and title bar? They added two of the three things asked, 

marked it as solved and then locked all other threads because they were "duplicates".

 

 

Are you sure Caesar slots is installed by default? It has not been on any computers I have installed.

Please bear in mind that ads gets injected into your list of programs and the start menu in Windows 10. So even if Caesar slots appears on your computer, it might not be installed. You can turn that off though (which is absolutely not an excuse for the despicable behavior).

It was automatically installed. I had to right click it then click uninstall on every single computer after installing Windows 10.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

It was automatically installed. I had to right click it then click uninstall on every single computer after installing Windows 10.

That's as bad (maybe even worse) than what AMD did with the tracked shortcut.  I seriously hope they remove this shit before I have to buy another retail version.

[LAwLz]

27 minutes ago, mr moose said:

NO, it means every other OS has legit issues that exist in windows 10.   This maybe a problem with grammar or just the way we interpret words, however the end result is the same.  It simply means that every other os will have some of those issues too.  I even pointed that out using differing examples of the issues. You'll note I did not say OSX has all the same problems, or Linux has all the same problems. becasue that was not my message.  In fact, I even indicated telemetry was "almost the same" as win 10, becasue I acknowledge there is more to it than what apple implement.  "Almost" being the crucial adverb in that sentence.

So you're making the argument that the world is black and white.

If you have one issue then it's just as bad as having 100 issues.

Something is either perfect or terrible, with nothing in between?

Anyone who has any issue with anything is just playing a victim?

 

Sorry if I am making a strawman argument here but that is genuinely how your posts are written.

 

 

34 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I'm sorry you feel so adamant that only MS can be guilty of all these atrocities.   If you ever have to use an android tablet, I am sure you won't feel your privacy has been invaded with private data being sent back to google, or the next time you can't get hardware setup on linux because it just isn't supported.   Because only win 10 has those issues right?

I am not saying that only MS can be guilty of all these horrible things. What I am however saying is that not all other software does them.

Also, even if everyone else did it it would still not be OK.

 

You wouldn't tell a HIV positive child in Africa "stop pretending to be a victim. Everyone has HIV around here", right? If it was true that everyone else was doing it then we should be more vocal about it, not less. It would be a reason why everyone should be upset.

[mr moose]

10 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

So you're making the argument that the world is black and white.

If you have one issue then it's just as bad as having 100 issues.

Something is either perfect or terrible, with nothing in between?

Anyone who has any issue with anything is just playing a victim?

 

Sorry if I am making a strawman argument here but that is genuinely how your posts are written.

 

 

I am not saying that only MS can be guilty of all these horrible things. What I am however saying is that not all other software does them.

Also, even if everyone else did it it would still not be OK.

 

You wouldn't tell a HIV positive child in Africa "stop pretending to be a victim. Everyone has HIV around here", right? If it was true that everyone else was doing it then we should be more vocal about it, not less. It would be a reason why everyone should be upset.

That's not my point though, I think (going over my post history here) that I have been as accepting of the flaws and realities of win 10 issues as I have been defensive. You know (or I hope you do) that I don't think any consumer should sit back and let corporations dictate.  The consumer should be the one who decides what features they want and don't want. 

 

However my tirade started back with some people making  complaints about bad support in win 10 (when they themselves haven't even had any issues yet).  From then a few people started combining all the issues they have had and listing them like every experience of windows will have these problems.  We know that is not the case, sure you are going to experience some of them (some unlucky prick might experience them all before he is even finished installing it) but not everyone every time. That is why I called them out as "playing the victim". I don't think taking issue with windows is playing the victim, but taking everyone's individual issues and then talking like they have experienced them all personally is.

[H0R53]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

no goal post moving,  you should probably re read my posts. Words have meaning don't read between them.

 

Great rebuttal,  he must be lying because he doesn't have the same problem that I had.

almost every person on this thread has had bloatware on Windows 10 and you seem to be the only exception, therefore the only LOGICAL conclusion I can make is that you are lying.

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

almost every person on this thread has had bloatware on Windows 10 and you seem to be the only exception, therefore the only LOGICAL conclusion I can make is that you are lying.

11 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I'm sure there's no restrictions on inclusions in the US and I didn't get any bloat (other than Microsoft stuff -- like xbox/skype) when I did any of my fresh installs.

You keep telling yourself I am the only one and I must be a liar.  It shows you have nothing left to say and just want to troll.

 

For the last time, I have bought an oem cd, a retail usb and performed the online upgrade, I did not get those games installed in either instance. I don't know why, and to be honest I don't care why. I'm just glad I didn't have to uninstall them. 

 

Now if you have nothing else to say please stop trolling.

 

EDIT: P.S you say almost everyone, yet I am the only exception.  I think you should stop trying to logic.

 

[leadeater]

I think that is enough bickering, take a short break and come back to the discussion later with a fresh mind.

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

That's as bad (maybe even worse) than what AMD did with the tracked shortcut.  I seriously hope they remove this shit before I have to buy another retail version.

Its worse. Its an installed with Windows app which reuires real money to be playable.

[H0R53]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

I think that is enough bickering, take a short break and come back to the discussion later with a fresh mind.

Yeah, sorry, I'm a bit hot headed so this tends to happen...I'm sure you've noticed...

[mr moose]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Its worse. Its an installed with Windows app which reuires real money to be playable.

That does make it worse.  Ain't no one got time for that.

[NumLock21]

40 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

almost every person on this thread has had bloatware on Windows 10 and you seem to be the only exception, therefore the only LOGICAL conclusion I can make is that you are lying.

 Like candy crush? They are bloatware for those who don't play them. I don't either, but i don't consider that as bloatware.

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

 Like candy crush? They are bloatware for those who don't play them. I don't either, but i don't consider that as bloatware.

Well I consider Candy Crush a crime against humanity, but maybe that's just me. 

[Jito463]

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

That's as bad (maybe even worse) than what AMD did with the tracked shortcut.  I seriously hope they remove this shit before I have to buy another retail version.

As bad?  Maybe worse?  AMD just placed a shortcut on your desktop, requiring you to explicitly click on it for it to have any meaning.  MS actually installs software on your computer without permission.  Those are completely different things, and what MS does is far, far worse for sure.  No maybe about it.

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, Jito463 said:

As bad?  Maybe worse?  AMD just placed a shortcut on your desktop, requiring you to explicitly click on it for it to have any meaning.  MS actually installs software on your computer without permission.  Those are completely different things, and what MS does is far, far worse for sure.  No maybe about it.

 

The difference is MS told you they were doing it while AMD did it behind your back.  That makes a huge difference ethically. 

[Commodus]

21 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

I don't agree to Microsoft data-collection, and as Microsoft's collection of data is not a necessary part of the functionality I use in the OS, a Win 10 clause claiming permission to collect my data therefore does not pass the reasonable person test, and is not a binding part of Microsoft's terms.

 

Additionally, Microsoft is doing everything they can to prevent people from continuing to use alternative software, such as Windows 7 and 8, and therefore people are being effectively forced into using Windows 10, which, in a legal environment, weakens any argument that says if a person uses Windows 10, then it's by choice and they have agreed to the included terms.

 

There is difference between support, doing nothing, and opposing.

 

- 'Supporting' is an active behaviour, meaning to provide effort to keep a product functioning. Simply letting things be is not the same thing as supporting.

- 'Not supporting' is an inactive behaviour, and is the state of simply not doing the active behaviour that is 'supporting'. It is the state of leaving things as they are, without further effort to ensure compatibility.

- Opposing, attacking, undermining, and sabotaging existing compatibility an active behaviour against a product and its users is neither 'supporting', or 'not supporting', and is what Microsoft has been doing towards Windows 7 and 8, and owners of those products.

 

Not supporting simply and literally means 'to not do the active behaviour that is supporting'. There is absolutely nothing about opposing Windows 7 or 8 functionality and compatibility with newer CPUs that is explained, rationalized, or excused by Microsoft saying they would not support Windows 7 and 8 for newer CPUs. 

 

I have not argued for Microsoft to continue support of Windows 7 and 8, but I have argued against Microsoft opposing, undermining, and sabotaging existing working compatibility. If Microsoft simply did not continue support for Windows 7, it would continue to have full functionality for newer CPUs. What Microsoft is doing is not ethical, and I believe it would be found to be illegal in Western courts.

You do have a point to a degree with Microsoft pushing people toward Windows 10, although I would note that not supporting Ryzen/Kaby Lake isn't necessarily the same as actively undermining compatibility... even if the reasons for doing so aren't due to technical limitations.

 

At the same time, if Microsoft's data collection or lack of hardware support is too much for you... well, take action.  Run an app that blocks these transmissions.  Switch to a Mac or Linux.  File a lawsuit or regulatory complaint.  Yeah, many of these options require compromises, but Microsoft isn't about to change its policies just because you asked.