Microsoft further cracks down on Kaby Lake and Ryzen usage on Windows 7 and 8.1

[IceCold008]

2 hours ago, H0R53 said:

Everything.

-No custom themes,

-no custom boot logos without UEFI hacks,

-tweaks that break shit,

-spyware,

-telemetry,

-informationless bluescreens,

-poor recovery support,

-bad screen estate management,

-BLOATWARE (that 7 and 8 didn't come with),

-annoying notifications,

-random spikes in CPU/RAM/Disk (from hte bloatware, spyware, and telemetry),

-some files are totally locked down, even with TakeOwnership,

-Legacy DX9 support,

-forced updates,

-bad prepackaged drivers,

 

I could keep going.

 

The fact that so many of you are defending Windows 10 despite clear evidence you are wrong reminds me of the Apple sheeple. I am no means a Microsoft fanboy but Windows 7 was the best release by Microsoft. Ever. If it wasn't, I'd be using something else.

And hes me actually thinking of  upgrading to windows 10 soon. Think i will stick with windows 7 as allways for now. I was hoping things would of got better over the last year or so. Seriously is it still that bad of an OS to NOT upgrade just yet?

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, IceCold008 said:

And hes me actually thinking of  upgrading to windows 10 soon. Think i will stick with windows 7 as allways for now. I was hoping things would of got better over the last year or so. Seriously is it still that bad of an OS to NOT upgrade just yet?

It's really not that bad. I've been using it for a year now and I've found it faster than w7. Sure there's more telemetry and there's more bloat but the bloat is easy to remove and w7 has quite a bit of telemetry in it anyway.

 

My only complaint with w10 is that it likes to restart for updates even if the cpu is pinned at 100% doing work. But that's true in w7 as well, but in w7 you had more control over updates (although with w10 pro you can delay updates so that solves most of the problem).

[H0R53]

2 hours ago, Jito463 said:

Funny, I can enable custom themes in Windows 10, and even save my own custom themes

Not the themes that 7 has, that's for fucking sure, and you need at least 3 different programs what UXStyle can do on 7 OOTB.

 

2 hours ago, Jito463 said:

Care to clarify?  What specific "tweaks" are you referring to?

Most of the tweaks from The Windows Club

 

2 hours ago, Jito463 said:

There's no "spyware" bundled with Windows 10.

Don't do the express install and you'll see what I mean

 

2 hours ago, Jito463 said:

True, though it can be disabled.

Not entirely

 

2 hours ago, Jito463 said:

The BSOD screens in 10 are as informative as any I've seen in previous versions of Windows.

 

They don't have the STOP 0xXXXXXXXXXX info

 

2 hours ago, Jito463 said:

Again, I haven't noticed this in 10 any more than with previous versions.  Drivers for most components work fine, and video drivers have always been a bad idea to use the defaults ones in Windows.

Try installing 10 on an LGA 77x system. i tried and it sucked.

 

1 hour ago, IceCold008 said:

And hes me actually thinking of  upgrading to windows 10 soon. Think i will stick with windows 7 as allways for now. I was hoping things would of got better over the last year or so. Seriously is it still that bad of an OS to NOT upgrade just yet?

YESSSSS YES YES DO NOT UPGRADE UNLESS YOU WANT TO SPEND A WEEK DISABLING AND DELETING SHIT

 

59 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

But that's true in w7 as well,

No it's not. An Intel t2300 in my Latitude D620 is at only 50% while updating, and on my Chromebook with a MUCH faster processor (N2840) and Windows 10 I deleted like half the OS trying to have enough free space to do anything.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, mynameisjuan said:

Please tell me how to validate updates for millions of different configurations of hardware. I get it frustrating but it pisses me off when people complain about updates breaking 3rd party hardware and expected Microsoft to have tested it on that equipment. Its like people expect them to spend millions of dollars on testing.

Check out Barneclues videos. He used to be on the Windows testing team. He talks in great deal with how they validated the updates to make sure they didnt break shit. 

[79wjd]

10 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

No it's not. An Intel t2300 in my Latitude D620 is at only 50% while updating, and on my Chromebook with a MUCH faster processor (N2840) and Windows 10 I deleted like half the OS trying to have enough free space to do anything.

An n2840 isn't that much faster than a t2300. I've ran windows 10 on an old e8400, i7-840qm, i3-4020y, and a 4670k/4690k and it's faster across the board compared to windows 7/8.1 running on each of those systems.

[mgfmcfc]

On 5/6/2017 at 7:57 PM, Daring said:

Sauce: http://winaero.com/blog/new-cpu-lock-windows-restrictive/

 

As predicted, Microsoft has strengthened their lockout of Windows 7 and 8.1 on Kaby Lake and Ryzen CPUs. The updates in question, released in April 2017, are as follows:

 

KB4015549: Windows 7 Monthly Rollup (which includes security and quality fixes)
KB4015546: Windows 7 Security-Only Rollup
KB4015550: Windows 8.1 Monthly Rollup (which includes security and quality fixes)
KB4015547: Windows 8.1 Security-Only Rollup

 

Remember, Windows 10 being the only OS supported on Kaby Lake and Ryzen is purely a business decision, rather than because it'd benefit the user or a technical decision.

 

Oh, but wait! The April 2017 updates listed begin nagging users! And shitcan manually installing the updates!

 

Oh, but there's more to this scumminess: it blocks updates in virtual machines as well!

 

But wait, there's more! Users running Windows 7 and 8.1 on AMD's Carrizo platform are also affected!

 

Keep in mind that Windows 7 and 8.1 are still supported by Microsoft, with 8.1 still under mainstream support, so Microsoft is effectively ditching Windows 8.1 customers.

 

There is also, of course, Linux, which is becoming a viable alternative to Windows in some peoples' eyes.

 

 

You smell that? It's the possibility of a class-action lawsuit, as a direct consequence to this hostility. If Microsoft continues this user-hostile behavior, it will be inevitable.

Microsoft wants you to sign your data away

[JoeCoke]

In all truth, I really don't care all that much. The only Windows 7 update I need to install is SP1, and there are SP1 pre installed ISOs, so I don't have to worry about that. So basically, WIndows update doesn't mean shit to me.

 

But still, that obviously doesn't make this any less of a scum move. I will never support M$ again, after Windows 7 gets too old I'll just have to deal with Linux, because I will never switch to 10. (BTW I'm kinda curious to see the upcoming switch to gnome for Ubuntu, seems really interesting, because I hated unity.)

[Donut417]

20 minutes ago, 2Buck said:

In all truth, I really don't care all that much. The only Windows 7 update I need to install is SP1, and there are SP1 pre installed ISOs, so I don't have to worry about that. So basically, WIndows update doesn't mean shit to me.

 

But still, that obviously doesn't make this any less of a scum move. I will never support M$ again, after Windows 7 gets too old I'll just have to deal with Linux, because I will never switch to 10. (BTW I'm kinda curious to see the upcoming switch to gnome for Ubuntu, seems really interesting, because I hated unity.)

I dont think the switch will be too big of deal. Ubuntu used to use Gnome as default back in the day. Back during the Win XP days, I had a dual boot machine with Ubuntu. Of course I dont know what changes they made to Gnome if any. 

[H0R53]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

An n2840 isn't that much faster than a t2300. I've ran windows 10 on an old e8400, i7-840qm, i3-4020y, and a 4670k/4690k and it's faster across the board compared to windows 7/8.1 running on each of those systems.

Intel T2300

Intel N280

 

The Celeron N is MUCH faster, has TurboBoost, more ISE, VT-x, and even integrated graphics.

 

Try benchmarking on 7 vs 10. Passmark, Furmark, etc. I will bet most scores will be higher in a fresh install of each.

[H0R53]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

I dont think the switch will be too big of deal. Ubuntu used to use Gnome as default back in the day. Back during the Win XP days, I had a dual boot machine with Ubuntu. Of course I dont know what changes they made to Gnome if any. 

You can install Gnome yourself with Synaptic, I like Gnome better than Unity. Gnome2 is better than Gnome3.

[H0R53]

1 hour ago, 2Buck said:

In all truth, I really don't care all that much. The only Windows 7 update I need to install is SP1, and there are SP1 pre installed ISOs, so I don't have to worry about that. So basically, WIndows update doesn't mean shit to me.

 

But still, that obviously doesn't make this any less of a scum move. I will never support M$ again, after Windows 7 gets too old I'll just have to deal with Linux, because I will never switch to 10. (BTW I'm kinda curious to see the upcoming switch to gnome for Ubuntu, seems really interesting, because I hated unity.)

There are more than 250 updates to install post SP1.

[Delicieuxz]

On 5/6/2017 at 11:57 AM, Daring said:

You smell that? It's the possibility of a class-action lawsuit, as a direct consequence to this hostility. If Microsoft continues this user-hostile behavior, it will be inevitable.

Microsoft has been ripe for class-action lawsuits for a long time. Hopefully this encourages people to pursue one.

 

 

People can still make their own updated Win 7 ISO, or use WSUS Offline to get new Windows 7 updates.

 

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

Intel T2300

Intel N280

 

The Celeron N is MUCH faster, has TurboBoost, more ISE, VT-x, and even integrated graphics.

 

Try benchmarking on 7 vs 10. Passmark, Furmark, etc. I will bet most scores will be higher in a fresh install of each.

And in cinebench an n2840 is only about 10-15% faster. The two are far closer in performance than you make them out to be.

[TheKDub]

15 hours ago, sgloux3470 said:

What's so awful about just upgrading to Windows 10?

 

 

 

All the forced telemetry, forced updates, random app downloads (I've had candy crush and some other stupid shit downloaded to my laptop at least twice now by Microsoft), overall how shitty Microsoft has been regarding transparency, etc...

 

I'm sticking with 8.1 on my desktop until either Microsoft cuts the bullshit and starts behaving like a good corporation again, or when a different operating system shows up and can do everything that I need it to. (Linux isn't quite there yet...) As for my laptop... I have very little say in what OS it uses since it came with Windows 10, uses a kaby lake CPU, and Lenovo only has drivers for it that work with Windows 10, and I couldn't find all the drivers from the component manufacturers to enable all the shit to work with 8.1...

[YamiYukiSenpai]

Microsoft won't bother doing any tests with Kaby Lake and Ryzen on Win 7 & 8.1.  They aren't gonna invest resources on that, especially since they are pushing Windows 10 really hard.

 

If they push those updates on 7 and 8.1 without any prior testing, people's PC could get screwed over.  And Microsoft will get blamed for doing that.

[Delicieuxz]

48 minutes ago, YamiYukiSenpai said:

Microsoft won't bother doing any tests with Kaby Lake and Ryzen on Win 7 & 8.1.  They aren't gonna invest resources on that, especially since they are pushing Windows 10 really hard.

 

If they push those updates on 7 and 8.1 without any prior testing, people's PC could get screwed over.  And Microsoft will get blamed for doing that.

Those newer CPUs still run on the x86 instruction set, and will be fine. People are definitively getting screwed by Microsoft preventing updates to those newer CPUs - and Microsoft is being blamed for it. So, the situation you think Microsoft is trying to protect against is what is actually happening by Microsoft trying to prevent updates to newer CPUs.

 

Microsoft is doing what it's doing because they're trying to force people to use Windows 10, which steals people's data at every turn, which Microsoft then sells for profit. It's a move out of uncontrolled greed and complete disregard for Windows owners, and not one done out of concern for those Windows owners who are being negatively impacted by the move, or out of desire to avoid being blamed such as is happening now.

[vorticalbox]

1 hour ago, YamiYukiSenpai said:

If they push those updates on 7 and 8.1 without any prior testing, people's PC could get screwed over. 

this is how Microsoft pushes all its updates. 

[Stefan1024]

It's about time I change my media center to Linux. If only all the programms I would run on Linux so I could get rid of windows completely. The second I can I will.

 

But Microsoft know I can't and the really act like it.

[Commodus]

5 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Those newer CPUs still run on the x86 instruction set, and will be fine. People are definitively getting screwed by Microsoft preventing updates to those newer CPUs - and Microsoft is being blamed for it. So, the situation you think Microsoft is trying to protect against is what is actually happening by Microsoft trying to prevent updates to newer CPUs.

 

Microsoft is doing what it's doing because they're trying to force people to use Windows 10, which steals people's data at every turn, which Microsoft then sells for profit. It's a move out of uncontrolled greed and complete disregard for Windows owners, and not one done out of concern for those Windows owners who are being negatively impacted by the move, or out of desire to avoid being blamed such as is happening now.

You're being hyperbolic here, I'm afraid.

 

Microsoft is not stealing your data "at every turn."  At least these days, they tell you what they collect and let you limit it to basic info (a lot of it is for diagnostics and feedback, not profit).  That doesn't mean there aren't still privacy issues, just that this Orwellian image isn't really accurate.

 

Also, I have to admit: I'm irked at the notion that Microsoft is somehow obligated to make sure people can keep running whichever version of Windows they want with the hardware they want to use.  It's an extension of that same "legacy support above all" mindset that has companies still running Windows XP because they refuse to move on from their 1998-era database software.  It's this sense of entitlement, that paying once for a copy of Windows means you're owed a lifetime of compatibility.  Well, no -- there are reasonable baseline expectations, but it's stretching things to argue that it 'must' make sure its 8-year-old operating system works with the new processor you want.

 

 

[Delicieuxz]

18 minutes ago, Commodus said:

You're being hyperbolic here, I'm afraid.

 

Microsoft is not stealing your data "at every turn."  At least these days, they tell you what they collect and let you limit it to basic info (a lot of it is for diagnostics and feedback, not profit).  That doesn't mean there aren't still privacy issues, just that this Orwellian image isn't really accurate.

If it is mine (and it is), and I haven't authorized and am not OK with it being taken or used (and I haven't and am not), and yet it's taken and used (it is), then it's being stolen. No hyperbole, you're just a frog that's accustomed to the hot water and couldn't give a damn about it.

 

Quote

Also, I have to admit: I'm irked at the notion that Microsoft is somehow obligated to make sure people can keep running whichever version of Windows they want with the hardware they want to use.  It's an extension of that same "legacy support above all" mindset that has companies still running Windows XP because they refuse to move on from their 1998-era database software.  It's this sense of entitlement, that paying once for a copy of Windows means you're owed a lifetime of compatibility.  Well, no -- there are reasonable baseline expectations, but it's stretching things to argue that it 'must' make sure its 8-year-old operating system works with the new processor you want.

Point to where someone has argued that Microsoft is obligated to ensure compatibility, because I haven't seen anybody make that argument. Nobody is asking Microsoft to lift a finger to cater to newer CPUs. What they're opposed to is Microsoft making efforts to sabotage OS compatibility with newer CPUs.

 

What you've done is make a straw-man argument, reframing the issue into something that it is not, so that you can make it sound as if Microsoft's sabotage and prevention of newer CPU compatibility is somehow justified, and that those who are not submitting to Microsoft's hostile practices are unjustified. The premise of that argument is a fiction.

[mr moose]

You can take all the issues people are posting here about 10 and apply them legitimately to every other OS or piece of software.   I think people just love being the victim.

 

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, Delicieuxz said:

If it is mine (and it is), and I haven't authorized and am not OK with it being taken or used (and I haven't and am not), and yet it's taken and used (it is), then it's being stolen. No hyperbole, you're just a frog that's accustomed to the hot water and couldn't give a damn about it.

 

Point to where someone has argued that Microsoft is obligated to ensure compatibility, because I haven't seen anybody make that argument. Nobody is asking Microsoft to lift a finger to cater to newer CPUs. What they're opposed to is Microsoft making efforts to sabotage OS compatibility with newer CPUs.

 

What you've done is make a straw-man argument, reframing the issue into something that it is not, so that you can make it sound as if Microsoft's sabotage and prevention of newer CPU compatibility is somehow justified, and that those who are not submitting to Microsoft's hostile practices are unjustified. The premise of that argument is a fiction.

Here's the thing, though: if you install Windows 10 and agree to its data sharing policy, then that data isn't being stolen.  You can rightly argue that Microsoft might not be as clear as it can (it has been taking steps to increase transparency), but not that it's taking those things behind your back.  I'm not trying to give Microsoft a free pass -- if you don't like its data collection after all that, it's fine.  But your initial observation is, frankly, a Chicken Little statement.  By making exaggerated it's-the-end-of-the-world claims, you hurt your chances at addressing very real problems when they come up.

 

As for pointing to where someone has argued that Microsoft is obligated to ensure compatibility... you did.  You claim that Microsoft cut off hardware support "out of uncontrolled greed and complete disregard for Windows owners."  You may not have literally argued that Microsoft was required to support you, but you acted as if Microsoft was abandoning some overwhelming responsibility.  Say the cut-off sucks; don't contend that Microsoft must support the hardware you want on the OS you want if it's going to show any concern for users.  There's a middle ground where it can care, but decide that it has to start steering users toward a newer OS for the sake of both its bottom line and getting everyone on the same code base.

[LAwLz]

13 minutes ago, mr moose said:

You can take all the issues people are posting here about 10 and apply them legitimately to every other OS or piece of software.   I think people just love being the victim.

This is objectively false.

[Donut417]

At the end of the day Microsoft will do what Microsoft wants to do. The only question is will they be successful doing it? I personally dont like the data collection Microsoft does, I only use Windows because MS Office doesn't work on Linux, and I have to use MS office for school. Once I graduate I will be moving to Linux. I have a feeling Windows 10 will push more people over to Mac OS. Microsoft used to have a 96% market share in the desktop OS market. Its now 89%. They feel that this data collection will make them more money and make them more successful. Basically they are changing there business strategy. Which I completely understand, they can not rely on desktop PC to keep them afloat anymore. I understand that. But, when you piss off your customer base, you tend to have a hard time being successful. Personally I think they are making a bad business decision, which will hurt the company rather than making it more successful. If I were Apple I would be hitting the desktop market hard as hell. I think they could make themselves more successful, just based on the amount of people who hate Windows 10. 

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

This is objectively false.

How?  Can you show me an instance where one of the problems people are complaining about in 10 has not appeared in another OS?

 

You know as well as I do that Linux fails on hardware support,  OSX has telemetry data enabled almost to the same extent as 10, android and ios both track apps and location.  All os's come with apps that someone will consider bloatware.   All os's freeze and have issues after updates, to claim otherwise is willful ignorance.