Microsoft further cracks down on Kaby Lake and Ryzen usage on Windows 7 and 8.1

[Nowak]

Sauce: http://winaero.com/blog/new-cpu-lock-windows-restrictive/

 

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It appears that Microsoft kept their promise and started locking updates for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 for those trying to run these operating systems on Intel Kaby Lake or AMD Ryzen CPU families. Users who installed April 2017 updates faced this serious issue along with new restrictions which were not announced initially.

As predicted, Microsoft has strengthened their lockout of Windows 7 and 8.1 on Kaby Lake and Ryzen CPUs. The updates in question, released in April 2017, are as follows:

 

KB4015549: Windows 7 Monthly Rollup (which includes security and quality fixes)
KB4015546: Windows 7 Security-Only Rollup
KB4015550: Windows 8.1 Monthly Rollup (which includes security and quality fixes)
KB4015547: Windows 8.1 Security-Only Rollup

 

Remember, Windows 10 being the only OS supported on Kaby Lake and Ryzen is purely a business decision, rather than because it'd benefit the user or a technical decision.

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Microsoft provides support for Intel's Kaby Lake and AMD's Ryzen CPU series (and all new processors going forward) only in Windows 10. This is purely a business decision, not a technical one to force more people to use Windows 10. In order to receive updates, the user has no choice but to move to the latest operating system version.

 

Oh, but wait! The April 2017 updates listed begin nagging users! And shitcan manually installing the updates!

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This change is even more restrictive with April 2017 updates than we could imagine. Every time you start Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 on PCs with the above mentioned CPUs, you'll see an "Unsupported Hardware" nag after a few minutes!

If you try to install an update manually using the standalone update installer, the operating system will terminate the update process! The following message box will appear:

 

Oh, but there's more to this scumminess: it blocks updates in virtual machines as well!

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The worst thing about this change is that even your virtual machines running Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 will be affected. If a guest Windows 7 or 8.1 OS is running in a VirtualBox-powered virtual machine running on any Windows host OS, the CPU identifiers of the host PC hardware get passed on to the guest VM, so updates will be blocked in the Virtual Machine as well! This makes it impossible to use Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 in a virtual machine with Kaby Lake and Ryzen CPUs.

 

But wait, there's more! Users running Windows 7 and 8.1 on AMD's Carrizo platform are also affected!

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But that's not all. The April 2017 updates also "accidentally" blocked updates for Windows 7/8.1 users running the OS on the AMD Carrizo CPU which is a 6th generation microprocessor!

 

Keep in mind that Windows 7 and 8.1 are still supported by Microsoft, with 8.1 still under mainstream support, so Microsoft is effectively ditching Windows 8.1 customers.

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Microsoft ended mainstream support for Windows 7 in January 2015. End of mainstream support means the operating system receives security updates but not minor functionality changes. Windows 8.1 is still under mainstream support but Microsoft is ditching customers of this operating system entirely with this hostile move. Microsoft wants everyone running Windows 10 as soon as possible whereas many Windows users have no plans to ever use Windows 10, not even in the future. Once their current hardware stops working, they will be forced to install and use Windows 10 to remain secure and protected.

 

There is also, of course, Linux, which is becoming a viable alternative to Windows in some peoples' eyes.

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Such hostile moves are likely to alienate many customers permanently. There is a possibility that some users will boycott Windows 10 and switch to Linux instead.

 

 

You smell that? It's the possibility of a class-action lawsuit, as a direct consequence to this hostility. If Microsoft continues this user-hostile behavior, it will be inevitable.

[RadiatingLight]

No support is one thing. I can understand the Microsoft doesn't want to test on every OS, and wants to encourage people to step up to Win10.

but actively blocking people from using W7 on CPUs that used to work just fine is scummy, and IMO hurts Microsoft's reputation as a company more than it helps them with the extra profit.

[79wjd]

56 minutes ago, RadiatingLight said:

but actively blocking people from using W7 on CPUs that used to work just fine is scummy

In fairness, Microsoft said from day one that Kaby Lake wouldn't be supported by W7/8.1.

 

I don't see why Microsoft should be expected to support new hardware on an old OS (if they clearly stated before that new hardware launched that it wouldn't be supported).

 

No one likes my analogy apparently. 

I also don't really have a problem with this, I don't expect the car I bought last year to support this years engine.

[Remixt]

God I wish we could globally adopt Linux and push Microsoft into a blackhole.

[Wix]

34 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

In fairness, Microsoft said from day one that Kaby Lake wouldn't be supported by W7/8.1.

 

I also don't really have a problem with this, I don't expect the car I bought last year to support this years engine.

 

That is.. a bad analogy.

 

I daresay that Microsoft is even becoming worse than Apple regarding the locking down, restricting, gimping, controlling, and forcing the users of their OS.

[porina]

Are the LMG "keep on digging" T-shirts still available?

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, Wix said:

 

That is.. a bad analogy.

 

I daresay that Microsoft is even becoming worse than Apple regarding the locking down, restricting, gimping, controlling, and forcing the users of their OS.

I don't see why Microsoft should be expected to support new hardware on an old OS (if they clearly stated before that new hardware launched that it wouldn't be supported).

[ARikozuM]

48 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I also don't really have a problem with this, I don't expect the car I bought last year to support this years engine.

Aside from your analogy being poorly worded, I agree. 

 

The only thing I have an issue with is the lockdown of virtual machines as that limits the freedom and purpose of said virtual machine. 

[porina]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

I don't see why Microsoft should be expected to support new hardware on an old OS (if they clearly stated before that new hardware launched that it wouldn't be supported).

It's been endlessly repeated, but there is a world of difference between:

1, It's unsupported. It might work. It might not. You're on your own, don't come to us if there's a problem.

2, You absolutely must not use it. We will hunt you down and take your firstborn if you try to do so.

 

1 is cool. 2 is not. So they went for 2.

[79wjd]

Just now, porina said:

It's been endlessly repeated, but there is a world of difference between:

1, It's unsupported. It might work. It might not. You're on your own, don't come to us if there's a problem.

2, You absolutely must not use it. We will hunt you down and take your firstborn if you try to do so.

 

1 is cool. 2 is not. So they went for 2.

1 also leads to upset customers when they have a problem and Microsoft tells them to fuck off. I completely understand blocking updates if you're not going to validate them.

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, porina said:

2, You absolutely must not use it. We will hunt you down and take your firstborn if you try to do so.

There have been quite a few "My Kaby system isn't liking my Windows 7/8.1, please help" threads over on the Microsoft forum. It's not supported, what do you want us to do?

[porina]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

1 also leads to upset customers when they have a problem and Microsoft tells them to fuck off. I completely understand blocking updates if you're not going to validate them.

Partially agree, but on balance of probability KL is practically identical to Skylake it is unlikely for there to be a problem with one and not the other. Ryzen of course is a bigger difference. 

 

Then again, with the number of actual bugs as well as undesirable design features in Win10, I guess they have enough to get on with...

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, porina said:

Partially agree, but on balance of probability KL is practically identical to Skylake it is unlikely for there to be a problem with one and not the other. Ryzen of course is a bigger difference. 

 

Then again, with the number of actual bugs as well as undesirable design features in Win10, I guess they have enough to get on with...

It's practically identical, but it's still different and it's probably still different enough to cause at least some problems. 

[porina]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

There have been quite a few "My Kaby system isn't liking my Windows 7/8.1, please help" threads over on the Microsoft forum. It's not supported, what do you want us to do?

If you're MS, say, you're on your own and done.

If you're the one with the problem, find out if it is a general problem and you just happen to have KL, or is it specifically related to KL.

 

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's practically identical, but it's still different and it's probably still different enough to cause at least some problems. 

It can't be down to the chipset, since you could put KL in 100 series, and Skylake in 200 series. So the only practical difference is the media processing update in the iGPU, and Intel driver support thereof. If solely using add in GPU which most in this community would, even that wouldn't be used.

[Misanthrope]

15 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's practically identical, but it's still different and it's probably still different enough to cause at least some problems. 

No that's not it.

 

Remember my question on the other thread: Why is it a Z270 motherboard ok if running on a 6700 but a Z170 board not ok if running a 7700?

 

Both those combinations are possible (with proper bios updates) and if you ask anyone who's not massively biased in favor of Microsoft they'll conclude is actually more difficult for them to support Z270, B250, H270, etc. On Windows 7 and 8 since it involves a hell of a lot more than just the processor and has to support all of those different drivers for the mobo and all the bundled components.

 

This is simple an anti consumer move and one that should net them a class action lawsuit, too bad the last part will probably never happen though.

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

No that's not it.

 

Remember my question on the other thread: Why is it a Z270 motherboard ok if running on a 6700 but a Z170 board not ok if running a 7700?

 

Both those combinations are possible (with proper bios updates) and if you ask anyone who's not massively biased in favor of Microsoft they'll conclude is actually more difficult for them to support Z270, B250, H270, etc. On Windows 7 and 8 since it involves a hell of a lot more than just the processor and has to support all of those different drivers for the mobo and all the bundled components.

 

This is simple an anti consumer move and one that should net them a class action lawsuit, too bad the last part will probably never happen though.

The chipset thing is different though because someone could easily get a 200-series chipset for their Skylake CPU, which is compatible with W7/8.1, and thus Microsoft has to support. 

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

This is simple an anti consumer move and one that should net them a class action lawsuit, too bad the last part will probably never happen though.

I say it right in the OP, this is purely a business decision and is not intended to benefit the end user in any way.

[Misanthrope]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

The chipset thing is different though because someone could easily get a 200-series chipset for their Skylake CPU, which is compatible with W7/8.1. 

More easy than supporting the CPU that's already fucking working on Windows 7 and 8? That makes no sense at all, stop defending Microsoft pointlessly.

[79wjd]

Just now, Misanthrope said:

More easy than supporting the CPU that's already fucking working on Windows 7 and 8? That makes no sense at all, stop defending Microsoft pointlessly.

I never said it would be easier, but one could affect users who thought they would have support (Skylake) while the other only affects users who didn't listen to what Microsoft told them before Kaby Lake even launched. 

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

I never said it would be easier, but one could affect users who thought they would have support (Skylake) while the other only affects users who didn't listen to what Microsoft told them before Kaby Lake even launched. 

But the people who bought a Z270 motherboard with a Skylake chip as their processor on it bought it AFTER this information was known so that's not it at all, couldn't possibly be.

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

But the people who bought a Z270 motherboard with a Skylake chip on it bought it AFTER this information was known so that's not it at all, couldn't possibly be.

They're still using a CPU that is compatible with Windows, and AFAIK Windows doesn't have an official list of supported chipsets. 

[Misanthrope]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

They're still using a CPU that is compatible with Windows, and AFAIK Windows doesn't have an official list of supported chipsets. 

Right so it basically means that making the compatibility a matter of the CPU is completely arbitrary and pointless, a pure business decision because they continue to support newer products like Z270 which are arguably more difficult to support cause of the required drivers and their validation.

 

Your argument is "Oh but supporting the chipset is easy" while ignoring that the point of this is that supporting the CPU its EASIER.

[ARikozuM]

There are instructions or components on the CPU that may not be supported by older versions of Windows. This isn't just Microsoft's decision, but also AMD and Intel's.

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Right so it basically means that making the compatibility a matter of the CPU is completely arbitrary and pointless, a pure business decision because they continue to support newer products like Z270 which are arguably more difficult to support cause of the required drivers and their validation.

 

Your argument is "Oh but supporting the chipset is easy" while ignoring that the point of this is that supporting the CPU its EASIER.

I never once said it would be hard to support Kaby Lake. It more than likely wouldn't be, but I also don't see why they have to -- it was released after the OS was replaced and it was announced before Kaby Lake launched that it wouldn't be supported. 

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

I never once said it would be hard to support Kaby Lake. It more than likely wouldn't be, but I also don't see why they have to -- it was released after the OS was replaced and it was announced before Kaby Lake launched that it wouldn't be supported. 

Z270 was also released after the OS was replaced too. You're just going in circles now so nothing more for me to add other users can read the previous replies.