[updated] Asetek demands Gigabyte and AMD to cease sales of the 980 Water Force and Fury X on infringement claims

[RazrLeaf]

Quick, someone go patent the integrated radiator pump unit!

[patrickjp93]

Hopefully Asetek gets its patent thrown out and goes out of business. They sell exactly one line of products and they aren't even that good. The only reason they don't challenge EKWB is they know they'd lose.

[Bensemus]

Hopefully Asetek gets its patent thrown out and goes out of business. They sell exactly one line of products and they aren't even that good. The only reason they don't challenge EKWB is they know they'd lose.

EK has the pump on the rad though... What would they want EK to stop doing?

[patrickjp93]

EK has the pump on the rad though... What would they want EK to stop doing?

Asetek is a classic case of monopolism, and unlike Intel who licenses out their FinFET tech, Asetek just hides behind paper to avoid competition. EKWB and Swiftech's are their only competition, and Asetek knows going after either of them would result in an enormous legal loss that would get their parents nullified and their entire revenue stream dried up practically overnight.

[Notional]

Hopefully Asetek gets its patent thrown out and goes out of business. They sell exactly one line of products and they aren't even that good. The only reason they don't challenge EKWB is they know they'd lose.

 

Patent(s) has already proven its worth in court once. You still haven't proven or even argued why this patent should be rendered void.

 

Their business is primarily server water cooling, so it's hardly one line. Also they have no reason to take EKWB to court, as that company doesn't infringe on any Asetek patent.

[Bensemus]

Asetek is a classic case of monopolism, and unlike Intel who licenses out their FinFET tech, Asetek just hides behind paper to avoid competition. EKWB and Swiftech's are their only competition, and Asetek knows going after either of them would result in an enormous legal loss that would get their parents nullified and their entire revenue stream dried up practically overnight.

But what do they want EK to stop? Their aio uses a different design as well as Swiftech. Most aio's use the Astek design so they are not just sitting on the patent and preventing anyone from using the design unlike other companies (oil pc case comes to mind)

[Notional]

Asetek is a classic case of monopolism, and unlike Intel who licenses out their FinFET tech, Asetek just hides behind paper to avoid competition. EKWB and Swiftech's are their only competition, and Asetek knows going after either of them would result in an enormous legal loss that would get their parents nullified and their entire revenue stream dried up practically overnight.

 

You don't know what monopoly is, if you think Asetek has monopoly on anything. Asetek already went after Swiftech, and as a result, Swiftech recalled their products and made a new one with the pump on the rad. EKWB never even tried to make such a product, but went straight to a pump on rad solution to avoid Asetek's patents. You are outright wrong in your posts.

[patrickjp93]

But what do they want EK to stop? Their aio uses a different design as well as Swiftech. Most aio's use the Astek design so they are not just sitting on the patent and preventing anyone from using the design unlike other companies (oil pc case comes to mind)

They want EKWB to stop competing.

 

Asetek doesn't allow any customization of their designs (other than raw aesthetics). They're total design hogs. You either sell what they give you or come up with a completely un-infringing design, and the 2nd option is stupid since combining the cooling plate with the pump head on the main block is an obvious technique to anyone with a brain.

 

 

You don't know what monopoly is, if you think Asetek has monopoly on anything. Asetek already went after Swiftech, and as a result, Swiftech recalled their products and made a new one with the pump on the rad. EKWB never even tried to make such a product, but went straight to a pump on rad solution to avoid Asetek's patents. You are outright wrong in your posts.

No I'm not, and Swiftech still sells Apogees. They won that case. Asetek's patent simply takes what really was Swiftech's design for a block-pump combo and attaches it to a closed-loop cooler (because no one with engineering sense lower than the Asetek snobs could have come up with it, except wait, someone did and won 3 back to back water overclocking competitions from 2003-2005 hosted by ASUS before Swiftech hired him).

 

Asetek should rot in the pile of mediocrity that is the essence of its products. Hell AquaComputer could do better.

[Bensemus]

They want EKWB to stop competing.

ok... Why does that mean that they want to sue EK? If they wanted to sue EK due to them infringing then they would. Their patent has held up already so there isn't anything really stopping them except the fact that EK's product is very different.

[patrickjp93]

ok... Why does that mean that they want to sue EK? If they wanted to sue EK due to them infringing then they would. Their patent has held up already so there isn't anything really stopping them except the fact that EK's product is very different.

There are three main ways in business to get rid of competition: buyout, coercion via the legal system to stop competing, and sueing them until their cash reserves run out. If you're Asetek, option 3 is cheap.

[SuperShires]

Are you joking?! Swiftech was 2 years ahead of them easily. All Asetek did was take the prices down via greater mass production.

 

No, they STOLE the design from public domain. Asetek does not deserve to have that patent. Swiftech at least hired the guy who first brought a closed loop system to overclocking competitions back in 2005.

You got a source for that? cause I'm actually interested to see what it originally looked like or just the startup of AIO's in general?

[Bensemus]

There are three main ways in business to get rid of competition: buyout, coercion via the legal system to stop competing, and sueing them until their cash reserves run out. If you're Asetek, option 3 is cheap.

Why not sue then? Their patent has be proven valid by previous cases. They won't sue as there is no similarities between their patent and what EK is producing. EK would just keep winning or the case wouldn't even make it to court. 

[patrickjp93]

You got a source for that? cause I'm actually interested to see what it originally looked like or just the startup of AIO's in general?

I'll have to check my photo albums when I get home on Saturday. Think Swiftech Apogee, but way less polished with welded/soldered copper piping sticking out of it.

[SuperShires]

I'll have to check my photo albums when I get home on Saturday. Think Swiftech Apogee, but way less polished with welded/soldered copper piping sticking out of it.

Thanks, at work and bored so I'll give it a look up

[patrickjp93]

Why not sue then? Their patent has be proven valid by previous cases. They won't sue as there is no similarities between their patent and what EK is producing. EK would just keep winning or the case wouldn't even make it to court. 

It hasn't been proven valid. What's been proven is Cooler Master didn't make a compelling legal argument. Proving something isn't invalid is impossible.

 

That's exactly why they don't sue. They know not only that they'd lose, but that EKWB would also in the same breath prove their patent's not valid. Unfortunately in the U.S. legal system you have to be a wounded party to have standing to be able to sue for invalid patent claims. General consumers can't.

[Bensemus]

It hasn't been proven valid. What's been proven is Cooler Master didn't make a compelling legal argument. Proving something isn't invalid is impossible.

 

That's exactly why they don't sue. They know not only that they'd lose, but that EKWB would also in the same breath prove their patent's not valid. Unfortunately in the U.S. legal system you have to be a wounded party to have standing to be able to sue for invalid patent claims. General consumers can't.

So then Ek keeps producing their product and Asetek keeps making theirs.... I don't see how you can call them a patent troll when they only go after people who make a carbon copy of their product. Looking that the pictures of the Cooler Master block and the Asetek one you could mix and match the parts and it would go together.

[Misanthrope]

So then Ek keeps producing their product and Asetek keeps making theirs.... I don't see how you can call them a patent troll when they only go after people who make a carbon copy of their product. Looking that the pictures of the Cooler Master block and the Asetek one you could mix and match the parts and it would go together.

 

Asked and answered: Asetek already went after Swittech who's design is not all all similar except for the CPU block and radiator combo part. Check the previous pages for the pics in fact.

[patrickjp93]

So then Ek keeps producing their product and Asetek keeps making theirs.... I don't see how you can call them a patent troll when they only go after people who make a carbon copy of their product. Looking that the pictures of the Cooler Master block and the Asetek one you could mix and match the parts and it would go together.

See @Misanthrope's answer.

[Notional]

They want EKWB to stop competing.

 

Asetek doesn't allow any customization of their designs (other than raw aesthetics). They're total design hogs. You either sell what they give you or come up with a completely un-infringing design, and the 2nd option is stupid since combining the cooling plate with the pump head on the main block is an obvious technique to anyone with a brain.

 

No I'm not, and Swiftech still sells Apogees. They won that case. Asetek's patent simply takes what really was Swiftech's design for a block-pump combo and attaches it to a closed-loop cooler (because no one with engineering sense lower than the Asetek snobs could have come up with it, except wait, someone did and won 3 back to back water overclocking competitions from 2003-2005 hosted by ASUS before Swiftech hired him).

 

Asetek should rot in the pile of mediocrity that is the essence of its products. Hell AquaComputer could do better.

 

Where have they stated that? I have not seen any news about Asetek wanting to sue EKWB.

 

As is their rights. They mass produce the unit and sell that to the AIO vendors like AMD (295x2) or Corsair, etc.

It wasn't obvious to do in a product before Asetek does it. Brilliant design is always "obvious" and simple in its function. That is why it's brilliant and succeeds.

 

Not in the US they don't. They sell it in countries where Asetek doesn't have a patent. Swiftech pulled out their AIO products voluntarily in the US. I wonder why!

 

First it was 2005, now 2003? Make up your mind and post some sources or at least a name. Actually don't bother, because it's irrelevant. Maybe Asetek bought the patent for that solution by the modder, maybe it's not the same design, who knows. Fact of the matter is that Asetek has successfully defended their patent in a US court already, so it holds up.

 

Aseteks unit is vaslt better in the noisy Cooler Master product though. As for the rest: Tough luck, they could have just invented it themselves first.

[Agent181]

i dont think the problem is that cm used an AIO the problem is they used an AIO that is very similar in design to a asetek one

the thing is all aio's were designed like that because it is common sense to build it that way, asatek just saw the value of patenting it and well since they control the patent, the only ones that got around it were swiftech and ek by changing the design which drives up the cost making the asatek design ones to be lower cost since its cheaper to make them that way, its also the same reason fractal design never came to US with the kelvin coolers

[MonkeyFace]

Asetek needs to go eat a d*ck. As bad as Apple and Samsung are as patent trolls, Asetek takes the cake. Heck, their designs are basically Swiftech ripoffs with a smaller block unit.

 

The patents are very vague too. It pretty much describes all AIO units currently on the market. Not to mention they also have one for GPU block...which they don't make. 

 

I was pretty mad when they blocked Swiftech H220 and H320. 

[Bensemus]

Asked and answered: Asetek already went after Swittech who's design is not all all similar except for the CPU block and radiator combo part. Check the previous pages for the pics in fact.

 

See @Misanthrope's answer.

The H220 with the pump block combo was removed from the US following that. The h220x is still for sale and in't mentioned when I Googled Asetek sues Swiftech.

[Dabombinable]

The patents are very vague too. It pretty much describes all AIO units currently on the market. Not to mention they also have one for GPU block...which they don't make. 

Which is why they are patent trolls. I mean patent orcs.

[Agent181]

Also everyone keep in mind what are the main names you hear in water cooling 

 

It is either EKWB, alphacool or swiftech since they dominate and push for more better products, half the time people dont even know who or what asatek is until they find out its just the company that does every water cooler that is used and is pretty cheaply made

 

I don't know whats going to happen at all with what they plan on doing to amd and nvidia case thats happening but for sure I can tell you this now, I have been doing water cooling before it was mainstream or simple, I still remember going with my dad buying a car radiator and getting a pump and tubing and it looked like shit but it got the job done and it was unique, asatek would also not be in the position they are now if it wasnt for corsair pushing their aio's hard to everyone back when the h100 h80 or h60 came out, those products did have problems but corsair stood by those products and helped water cooling be more mainstream and accepted for anyone.  The custom water cooling will always be around and push for new things just as technology advances.  

 

Since asatek started doing this crap almost all aio's that come out are SHIT, there is nothing that makes them better its just a new addition of color here or there, there is so much that will be added to that, first it was different sizes, then you add a light, then make the light rgb, there is so much you can do from that besides control it in software... the only thing they have left is well what happens in the custom community paint the rad and pump themselves so there not much left for them to do.

 

this will be continue to happen for a few more years sadly but the market will come down to this asatek vs the custom makers, asatek will continue to make money because they have the cheap way to make an aio but they will never really be the best at all

[patrickjp93]

Where have they stated that? I have not seen any news about Asetek wanting to sue EKWB.

 

As is their rights. They mass produce the unit and sell that to the AIO vendors like AMD (295x2) or Corsair, etc.

It wasn't obvious to do in a product before Asetek does it. Brilliant design is always "obvious" and simple in its function. That is why it's brilliant and succeeds.

 

Not in the US they don't. They sell it in countries where Asetek doesn't have a patent. Swiftech pulled out their AIO products voluntarily in the US. I wonder why!

 

First it was 2005, now 2003? Make up your mind and post some sources or at least a name. Actually don't bother, because it's irrelevant. Maybe Asetek bought the patent for that solution by the modder, maybe it's not the same design, who knows. Fact of the matter is that Asetek has successfully defended their patent in a US court already, so it holds up.

 

Aseteks unit is vaslt better in the noisy Cooler Master product though. As for the rest: Tough luck, they could have just invented it themselves first.

Keep your facts straight. I always said the AIO design was at least as early as 2005, and that the same man had won ASUS' annual competition 3 years running.

 

No, BS. Patents are barriers to competition when abused this way. Patents were meant to exist as a way for you to establish yourself, not keep the world from moving forward on innovation.