[updated] Asetek demands Gigabyte and AMD to cease sales of the 980 Water Force and Fury X on infringement claims

[zMeul]

update: http://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/2220-amd-response-to-asetek-cnd-on-fury-x

AMD responds to Asetek cease and desist letter:

We are aware that Asetek has sued Cooler Master. While we defer to Cooler Master regarding the details of the litigation, we understand that the jury in that case did not find that the Cooler Master heat sink currently used with the Radeon Fury X infringed any of Asetek’s patents.

the funny thing is that Asetek filled the suit way before AMD used CM's CLC in the Fury X

also, if memory serves, the verdict was given about the same time AMD released the Fury X - so the court wasn't aware

fact is the CLC used in Fury X is a derivate of CM's Seidon 120V, product that is named in the injuction

[TechStyle]

I changed it anyways.

 

damn. savage  :lol:

[Notional]

Keep your facts straight. I always said the AIO design was at least as early as 2005, and that the same man had won ASUS' annual competition 3 years running.

 

No, BS. Patents are barriers to competition when abused this way. Patents were meant to exist as a way for you to establish yourself, not keep the world from moving forward on innovation.

 

Yet you have provided no proof of any person or any prototype/product, so it's still just a baseless claim.

 

Swiftech and EKWB managed to innovate just fine. Patents are still made to protect ones investment and innovation. "Establish yourself" is such a vague term, you cannot make any law about that. No what Asetek has is what patents were made for, which is also why they got it and why they could defend it in the courts.

 

update: http://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/2220-amd-response-to-asetek-cnd-on-fury-x

AMD responds to Asetek cease and desist letter:

 

It's a different unit than the seidon one. But I reckon this would not hold up in court either.

[Janne]

i don't know shit about business things, but i find this a very odd a thing to do. for example i will always avoid asetek shit from now on because i saw this.

 

why do they do this?

[Prysin]

update: http://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/2220-amd-response-to-asetek-cnd-on-fury-x

AMD responds to Asetek cease and desist letter:

the funny thing is that Asetek filled the suit way before AMD used CM's CLC in the Fury X

also, if memory serves, the verdict was given about the same time AMD released the Fury X - so the court wasn't aware

fact is the CLC used in Fury X is a derivate of CM's Seidon 120V, product that is named in the injuction

however said derivate do DERIVE from the original. The cooling "block" also incorporates a VRM cooling "loop" that is litterally fused with the main block.

[Agent181]

i don't know shit about business things, but i find this a very odd a thing to do. for example i will always avoid asetek shit from now on because i saw this.

 

why do they do this?

its called greed it gets to people that want more money 

[patrickjp93]

Yet you have provided no proof of any person or any prototype/product, so it's still just a baseless claim.

 

Swiftech and EKWB managed to innovate just fine. Patents are still made to protect ones investment and innovation. "Establish yourself" is such a vague term, you cannot make any law about that. No what Asetek has is what patents were made for, which is also why they got it and why they could defend it in the courts.

 

 

It's a different unit than the seidon one. But I reckon this would not hold up in court either.

Oh yes you can. Go back to the original U.S. patent laws established in the 18th century. It was all about name recognition, not blocking competition.

[Misanthrope]

update: http://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/2220-amd-response-to-asetek-cnd-on-fury-x

AMD responds to Asetek cease and desist letter:

the funny thing is that Asetek filled the suit way before AMD used CM's CLC in the Fury X

also, if memory serves, the verdict was given about the same time AMD released the Fury X - so the court wasn't aware

fact is the CLC used in Fury X is a derivate of CM's Seidon 120V, product that is named in the injuction

 

Operative word being derivative which is a relative term up for discussion and not covered until a court decision expands the verdict at which point CM can contest and even have a separate trial for that product. The fact that the unit is on a GPU and also includes cooling for the VRM makes it different enough. That's why bullshit cases like "black square" from Apple take a long time and are usually thrown out you can just say "a propeller inside a rectangle" and expect to cover every single fucking product.

[zMeul]

Operative word being derivative which is a relative term up for discussion and not covered until a court decision expands the verdict at which point CM can contest and even have a separate trial for that product. The fact that the unit is on a GPU and also includes cooling for the VRM makes it different enough. That's why bullshit cases like "black square" from Apple take a long time and are usually thrown out you can just say "a propeller inside a rectangle" and expect to cover every single fucking product.

I haven't seen the comparison between the insides of the Fury X unit and the Seidon 120V

but if the pump/cold plate assembly is the same, it may not even need a new trial

dunno this, but is the suit/injunction covering derivatives or new products ?!

[Prysin]

I haven't seen the comparison between the insides of the Fury X unit and the Seidon 120V

but if the pump/cold plate assembly is the same, it may not even need a new trial

dunno this, but is the suit/injunction covering derivatives or new products ?!

even if the pump and cold plate is the same, the heat-pipe assembly is part of the loop. Without it, the Fury X would not be the Fury X.

[Misanthrope]

I haven't seen the comparison between the insides of the Fury X unit and the Seidon 120V

but if the pump/cold plate assembly is the same, it may not even need a new trial

 

It is not the same since the cold plate has a separate, smaller plate that is cooling the VRM:

 

 

That cooling plate is part of the unit, so you can't say its the same product if it also cools the VRM which is never covered on CPU AIO designs in question.

[zMeul]

It is not the same since the cold plate has a separate, smaller plate that is cooling the VRM

no, that's quite wrong

the plate cooling the VRMs is part of the tubing and not at all part of the cold plate and pump assembly

[Misanthrope]

no, that's quite wrong

the plate cooling the VRMs is part of the tubing and not at all part of the cold plate and pump assembly

 

Now you're just being disingenuous here: no tubing is made of copper or is bolted into the card or is using thermal paste, need I go on? no you realize all of this, anyone can realize all of this which just makes Asetek a Patent Orc.

[zMeul]

Now you're just being disingenuous here: no tubing is made of copper or is bolted into the card or is using thermal paste, need I go on? no you realize all of this, anyone can realize all of this which just makes Asetek a Patent Orc.

are we arguing semantics now?!

is CM's "black box" on the Fury X similar or quite the same with the Seidon 120V's "black box"? YES/NO

if YES, AMD needs a new "black box" - it's that simple! they can keep their bent copper tubing  :lol:

 

the suit covers the pump & cold plate assembly, am I right? then why are we debating horses on the wall!?

 

[Misanthrope]

are we arguing semantics now?!

 

Comrade, that's always the case in patent law: arguing semantics and see if the patent is valid, if it's too broad, if it can or cannot be interpreted to cover inflicting products, etc. It is literally months of litigating semantics, so let's agree to disagree and let the court decide.

[mr.squishy]

So by the logic that Asetek sues anyone with an integrated pump/block combo, why haven't Asetek sued Corsair or NZXT yet? I have no experience with either, but they all look the same to me. Unless those companies have licensed the design from Asetek? 

[Notional]

i don't know shit about business things, but i find this a very odd a thing to do. for example i will always avoid asetek shit from now on because i saw this.

 

why do they do this?

 

Patents are made to protect ones innovations and products. If anyone could just copy your stuff, only cheap chinese companies would make everything. But no innovation or new invention would happen, as no one can afford to invest anything into it. Asetek is just protecting itself, like it has every right to.

 

its called greed it gets to people that want more money 

 

It's called protection from patent infringement to ensure survival and jobs.

 

Oh yes you can. Go back to the original U.S. patent laws established in the 18th century. It was all about name recognition, not blocking competition.

 

How is that relevant to anything in this thread? Is that how the patent laws are today in the US? Nope!

 

So by the logic that Asetek sues anyone with an integrated pump/block combo, why haven't Asetek sued Corsair or NZXT yet? I have no experience with either, but they all look the same to me. Unless those companies have licensed the design from Asetek? 

 

Corsair's and NZXT's AIO's in the US uses Asetek units. The reason why they all look the same is because they are either Asetek units or a ripoff of one.

[TheProfosist]

It hasn't been proven valid. What's been proven is Cooler Master didn't make a compelling legal argument. Proving something isn't invalid is impossible.

 

That's exactly why they don't sue. They know not only that they'd lose, but that EKWB would also in the same breath prove their patent's not valid. Unfortunately in the U.S. legal system you have to be a wounded party to have standing to be able to sue for invalid patent claims. General consumers can't.

So your saying that CoolIt, Swiftech, and CM all didnt make compelling arguments? I highly doubt this especially with all the units CoolIt was pushing through Corsair.

[Agent181]

It's called protection from patent infringement to ensure survival and jobs.

There are different type of companies that hold patents... asatek is just the type that will do anything for a monopoly, I have had experience in fighting patents already sadly through my internships and its not fun what asatek is doing is wrong and they should just die in a hole along with their cheaply made products

[Notional]

There are different type of companies that hold patents... asatek is just the type that will do anything for a monopoly, I have had experience in fighting patents already sadly through my internships and its not fun what asatek is doing is wrong and they should just die in a hole along with their cheaply made products

 

Like I told Patrick, Asetek does not have a monopoly and never will. Monopoly is one of the most abused terms out there. De facto monopoly almost doesn't exist anymore on a global product market. The fact that Swiftech and EKWB has competing products means that there cannot be a monopoly. Even if they didn't exist, you could still buy a custom water cooling loop set that does the same.

 

If Asetek allowed companies to steal their innovation, they would cease to exist, as companies in china could make it much cheaper. But if it wasn't for Asetek, the concept of an AIO wouldn't exist to begin with.

It's not fun for Asetek to see a lot of companies making carbon copies of their product and undercut them on the market with cheap knock offs.

[mr.squishy]

Corsair's and NZXT's AIO's in the US uses Asetek units. The reason why they all look the same is because they are either Asetek units or a ripoff of one.

Fair enough, carry on.

[Agent181]

Like I told Patrick, Asetek does not have a monopoly and never will. Monopoly is one of the most abused terms out there. De facto monopoly almost doesn't exist anymore on a global product market. The fact that Swiftech and EKWB has competing products means that there cannot be a monopoly. Even if they didn't exist, you could still buy a custom water cooling loop set that does the same.

 

If Asetek allowed companies to steal their innovation, they would cease to exist, as companies in china could make it much cheaper. But if it wasn't for Asetek, the concept of an AIO wouldn't exist to begin with.

It's not fun for Asetek to see a lot of companies making carbon copies of their product and undercut them on the market with cheap knock offs.

They are taking over a monopoly.... the reason why they cant go after EKWB or swiftech.. alphacool and the others is because they are in the custom and have been in the custom business side for years now... there is one thing all of these companies that make an aio have one thing in common... its a custom expandable AIO so asatek can not challenge them at all, one other thing that both of those companies did was that they moved the reservoir to a separate spot than the normal place it would be on just in case asatek would go after them there as well

[Agent181]

Now before any more fighting let's get this all straight 

 

1. Asatek never had a stand at all until corsair came along and made h50 and started pushing water cooling mainstream in 2009

• because of this corsair started pushing for even more products which later moved on to have the h100 h60 h80 

2. other companies caught on to this and turned to coolIT  Systems, a competitor for asatek in the data center business

 

3. Meanwhile the custom industry aka mainly swiftech led the north american side and EKWB led the European side from even before asatek or CoolIT joined the consumer market

 

Now I can go all day on this but I have to go back to study for finals  

 

ANYONE that continues this thread go over the history and get your facts straight and if you dont know what is going on here is some history to catch up on

 

Asatek http://www.asetek.com/company/milestones/

 

Swiftech http://www.swiftech.com/history.aspx

 

EKWB http://www.ekwb.com/company/history/

 

CoolIT http://www.coolitsystems.com/index.php/2014-12-04-17-38-01/about-us.html

[Notional]

They are taking over a monopoly.... the reason why they cant go after EKWB or swiftech.. alphacool and the others is because they are in the custom and have been in the custom business side for years now... there is one thing all of these companies that make an aio have one thing in common... its a custom expandable AIO so asatek can not challenge them at all, one other thing that both of those companies did was that they moved the reservoir to a separate spot than the normal place it would be on just in case asatek would go after them there as well

 

No Asetek made an innovation and thus created a new market segment that didn't exist before (but did come to be at the expensive of the custom water cooler market and mostly the aircooling market).

I still haven't heard any news about Asetek wanting to sue EKWB. I don't know where that came from?

They did go after Swiftech, which responded by pulling their AIO product line from the US market. So not only could they go after Swiftech, they did as well. Today Swiftech has their own product where the pump is on the radiator, which does not infringe on Asetek's patents.

 

And yes Swiftech and EKWB ultimately made their own solutions. THAT is competition. Not blatant ripoffs.

 

People does not seem to realize that Asetek is primarily a b2b company selling water cooling solutions to server parks. Going into the consumer space was an afterthought.

[Misanthrope]

People does not seem to realize that Asetek is primarily a b2b company selling water cooling solutions to server parks. Going into the consumer space was an afterthought.

 

Precisely, they didn't really want to compete in the consumer market but they thought they might as well to pursue legal action instead of quality products and marketing. Not quite a patent troll, but definitively a Patent Orc.

 

Their "innovation" part we've been reviewing and discussing different points on that. I'm not saying I disagree with you but I'd say the jury it's still definitely out on just how innovative they truly are.