Bigtime YouTuber, AngryJoe, says enough is enough with Nintendo

[GoodBytes]

In what way is it complete mud and dirt. To my knowledge there is on game that cant be played on it and the lack of amibo support (I hardly think that this was intentional). Other than that it works just as well as the 3DS LL

There will be an accessory to add amiibo support for older 3DS. They mentioned it in the latest Nintendo Direct, but no details yet.

But in any case, amiibo's are only added small bonuses that doesn't really affected game play in games. It's more of a fun collectable toy with an added bonus on select games.

But the new 3DS is faster than the previous one, games do load much faster. You have a game that only works with the new 3DS: Xenoblade (probably because it needs the extra power).

I love how Nintendo, every time they release a new console revision, they trash the old one in the advertisement and boost the new one.

Like when they announced the "new 3DS" they were like: "Look how shitty the 3D effect is on the old 3DS, but on the new 3DS, hoho! Look how amazingly better it is. See how Smash Brother takes ages to load on the current 3DS, look how fast it loads now!".

They always do this, it is funny. I enjoy these ads. Ads that makes you feel bad, for using the company product, because you don't have the latest and greatest. lol!

I remember them doing it all the way back with the GameBoy pocket, and special edition (or what ever it was called) where it was the GameBoy pocket with backlit screen.

[typographie]

Fair use law.  Youtube even fucking explains this shit.

https://www.youtube.com/yt/copyright/fair-use.html

 

"Criticism is one of the core areas of fair use. Here, the host criticizes the game using short gameplay clips to illustrate specific points of his argument."

 

Notice that he doesn't just show uninterrupted gameplay and cuts back and forth between facecam and relevant gameplay (which isn't continuous footage anyway).  

 

As far as I can tell your link doesn't say a word about a "30-60 second rule" for Fair Use. There is a vague statement about shorter amounts of content being more likely to be seen as Fair Use than longer clips, but that would be entirely in the eyes of a judge if such a thing ever shockingly made it to court. If you have a source that actually shows that this 30-60 seconds thing isn't something you just made up, please feel free to post it.

 

The law itself really isn't even a part of this discussion at this point. Nintendo et. al. aren't pursuing any legal action, they're (ab)using Youtube's broken Content ID system to claim videos based on content ranging from mere seconds to hours in length. One would think a huge corporation with an army of lawyers on their side wouldn't be so shy to get the courts involved if they actually thought they had a case with any merit. Nothing would please them more than to get a legal precedent against this kind of content, if they could.

[sgloux3470]

As far as I can tell your link doesn't say a word about a "30-60 second rule" for Fair Use. There is a vague statement about shorter amounts of content being more likely to be seen as Fair Use than longer clips, but that would be entirely in the eyes of a judge if such a thing ever shockingly made it to court. If you have a source that actually shows that this 30-60 seconds thing isn't something you just made up, please feel free to post it.

 

The law itself really isn't even a part of this discussion at this point. Nintendo et. al. aren't pursuing any legal action, they're (ab)using Youtube's broken Content ID system to claim videos based on content ranging from mere seconds to hours in length. One would think a huge corporation with an army of lawyers on their side wouldn't be so shy to get the courts involved if they actually thought they had a case with any merit. Nothing would please them more than to get a legal precedent against this kind of content, if they could.

 

It's a rule of thumb, not a rule in paper.  The point is short clips of gameplay for reviews is how it should be done. (Wherein the clips are actually relevant to what you are talking about)  The actual rule basically says as long as the clip is relevant to your point, but again it's all judged on a case by case basis.

 

 

 

'they're (ab)using Youtube's broken Content ID system to claim videos based on content ranging from mere seconds..."

 

The whole thing is fucking automated.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's catching everything.  That said, got any sources on that, bud?

 

 

 

One would think a huge corporation with an army of lawyers on their side wouldn't be so shy to get the courts involved if they actually thought they had a case with any merit. Nothing would please them more than to get a legal precedent against this kind of content, if they could.

 

There's a myriad of reasons as to why they might prefer to just prevent monetization.  For example, They don't go after fan projects unless they advertise themselves as sequels or compete with products Nintendo is working on.  (For example, Project M is allowed to exist but Pokemon MMO stuff always gets shut down.)   They're trying to walk a thin line between catering to their fans and retaining some control. (Hence the Nintendo Partners thing.)

[Nowak]

It doesn't always spoil game content. I've never looked at a Pokemon or Mario Kart game video and worried about potential spoilers of the non-existing story.

Pokémon actually does have a story now. I'll spoiler it in case anyone hasn't played the generation V or VI games. Just be aware that they are actual spoilers.

 

 

 

Generation V's story involved themes of truth, ideals, humanity's relationship with animals (Pokémon) and even had a puppet leader for the criminal organization, Team Plasma; the real leader created Team Plasma to carry out a convenient lie to get trainers to release their Pokémon by basically being the Pokémon version of PETA so he could be the only trainer in Unova. Team Flare in generation VI, meanwhile, wanted to commit mass genocide on those they deem unworthy ("ridding the world's filth") using a weapon created by an ancient king of Kalos 3000 years ago to end a war his beloved Pokémon, a Floette, was killed in. Ultimately, though, their leader gets killed himself trying to use this weapon (although of course since it's a kid's game, it's only heavily implied that he died rather than directly shown.)

 

 

Anyway, enough about this. Nintendo really needs to adapt, they are the only Japanese developer I know of who actively polices YouTube for their video content and takes ad revenue away from content creators. For many of these people, YouTube is how they make their money. Is it a wise thing to make money through YouTube? Probably not, but remember that Linus gets a fair share of money through YouTube as well.

[Biased Opinion]

There will be an accessory to add amiibo support for older 3DS. They mentioned it in the latest Nintendo Direct, but no details yet.

But in any case, amiibo's are only added small bonuses that doesn't really affected game play in games. It's more of a fun collectable toy with an added bonus on select games.

But the new 3DS is faster than the previous one, games do load much faster. You have a game that only works with the new 3DS: Xenoblade (probably because it needs the extra power).

I love how Nintendo, every time they release a new console revision, they trash the old one in the advertisement and boost the new one.

Like when they announced the "new 3DS" they were like: "Look how shitty the 3D effect is on the old 3DS, but on the new 3DS, hoho! Look how amazingly better it is. See how Smash Brother takes ages to load on the current 3DS, look how fast it loads now!".

They always do this, it is funny. I enjoy these ads. Ads that makes you feel bad, for using the company product, because you don't have the latest and greatest. lol!

I remember them doing it all the way back with the GameBoy pocket, and special edition (or what ever it was called) where it was the GameBoy pocket with backlit screen.

 

I still don't see how this makes the 3DS xl any less usable. It still works, yes it loads shit slower than the LL but this is the tech industry and shit gets better over time. Just don't watch the ads if they make you feel bad about not having the latest and greatest Nintendo product. I fail to see how this is any different to somebody like nivida comparing titan x to titan black in their press release and saying look how much faster this thing is and what you can do with it (minus that double precision mind you). It costs the same just like the 3DS LL costs the same as the 3DS did at launch and you can get the 3DS for cheaper now.

[LegacyStijncat]

This is the fault that will kill Nintendo. The only way that people are going to buy Wii U is if the Wii U gets advertised, and Nintendo does a s*** job at advertising on TV. Youtubers were their last hope, and now they are gone. Good job Nintendo, your going bankrupt.

[TroubleKlef]

It's contradictory to say Nintendo is "greedy" for not taking "free advertising". 

[TwistedDictator]

It's contradictory to say Nintendo is "greedy" for not taking "free advertising". 

 

Watch the video again. He does not say they are being greedy for not taking free advertising. What he is trying to say is we are playing your game, we are advertising your game that we had to purchase and buy your console including the expensive controllers but that not enought, you want more from us, you want to take the cash from having your game in our video. People watch angry joe for the personality. That just greedy and they want to take every single penny.

 

And @TroubleKlef what the video instead of assuming crap.

[TwistedDictator]

Fair use laws are very complicated, and one of the most important deciding factors in determining whether or not a particular case of usage was fair is "Were they making money off of it?".  

 

 

Fair use isnt a law.

[mikeeginger]

Sigh why are they doing this 

They need to wake up and allow people to share their games

with out the threat of being taken down.

[SIGSEGV]

I think it's the time for Nintendo to end

[Trik'Stari]

Nintendo is out of touch with the modern age. 

 

They know nothing of how to handle modern PR and to embrace the internet age and people like Angry Joe who could otherwise have a reach with audiences that Nintendo can only dream of. This stuff is free advertising at its finest. But nope, greedy corporations going to be greedy. 

Yet another strange moment in time where we both completely agree.

 

Watch the video again. He does not say they are being greedy for not taking free advertising. What he is trying to say is we are playing your game, we are advertising your game that we had to purchase and buy your console including the expensive controllers but that not enought, you want more from us, you want to take the cash from having your game in our video. People watch angry joe for the personality. That just greedy and they want to take every single penny.

 

And @TroubleKlef what the video instead of assuming crap.

 

Fairly certain you just defined greed. Or at least explained it.

[kuddlesworth9419]

Actually no: Provided sufficient time and money (things I'm sure Joe doesn't have) despite of what he thinks he is entitled to use the content under fair use.

I never said it was illegal to use Nintendo's stuff what I did say was that it would be intelligent not to. And besides do we really know any of Japan's media laws are or are we all insinuating that American laws apply to the rest of the world.

[Misanthrope]

I never said it was illegal to use Nintendo's stuff what I did say was that it would be intelligent not to. And besides do we really know any of Japan's media laws are or are we all insinuating that American laws apply to the rest of the world.

 

1) Fair enough

 

2) Joe's an American producing videos on America, of products being sold by Nintendo of America. There's enough jurisdiction. But kinda moot so let's move on.

[That Norwegian Guy]

The fart huffer generation needs to die out so people who know and realize that YouTube coverage is free advertisement can take control over their shitty ass companies.

[Blebekblebek]

I've just heard this

after read a bit here and there....

 

well... if you apply fair use laws (or rather force it)
then there's gonna be 2 choices left

 

1. Spend your time and getting less revenue (if you monetize your channel)

2. or don't do it at all

 

I don't buy any Nintendo stuff anymore, I don't even play like I use to be because I can't, but that doesn't mean I didn't follow the news/trend or adapt to new business method.

 

this will hurt Nintendo for long term, especially when people choose opt. 2, when people depends on their revenue from their content, why bother?

[Camul]

I haven't kept up with them.  Not surprised they jumped on the Let's Play bandwagon because it's low effort + easy cash.  I'm mainly referring to their machinima and live action shorts and podcast content they were doing ~4-5 years ago.

 

It's obviously not applicable to every game, but there any many games where player discovery is important.  Stuff like secret playable characters, items, locales etc Nintendo sometimes likes to keep under wraps as much as they can.  I'm also not strictly talking about Nintendo games. I haven't watched Angry Joe's video.

 

I don't know why you think machinima is any more appropriate than a review or a let's play. Also, Roosterteeth has been doing game commentaries for about 8 years now, and it's been a big part of it, so I find it a little unbelievable that you're calming to not know they did that. Not to mention, you should probably stop using examples that you don't know a fucking thing about to back up your argument.

 

Also, I've never really known about reviews or many let's plays actually spoiling a game. Also, if Nintendo really gave a fuck about protecting their IPs from being spoiled they'd take the video down outright, not start taking a cut. This is happening because they're greedy, there is no other reason. They're just too stupid to see that everyone ends up loosing this way. They loose out on free advertising, the video creator looses money, and the audience looses out on entertainment.

[dimitriianghelov]

He knew this would happen and did anyway, what fucking attention whore. I just look at the movie/music industry and i can see your hypocrisy , the makers of a product have all right on it unless it's for  Review, there you can argue . If he's so sure of himself why doesn't take Nintendo to court? you know what he doesn't because he can't, because even if most western devs all you to do lets plays of their games, they still hold the copyright on those set games.

 

  Even though i do not agree with their practice i will say : if you have  policy in place doesn't matter who he is if he doesn't abide by it he's braking the rules , even Totalbiscuit has stated in argument with Jesse Cox , as a Reviewer you can have your lawyers fight it, as a "let's player"  you don't don't and even if you tried you would loose most likely

[CapnCrunch]

removed

[Misanthrope]

He knew this would happen and did anyway, what fucking attention whore. I just look at the movie/music industry and i can see your hypocrisy , the makers of a product have all right on it unless it's for  Review, there you can argue . If he's so sure of himself why doesn't take Nintendo to court? you know what he doesn't because he can't, because even if most western devs all you to do lets plays of their games, they still hold the copyright on those set games.

 

  Even though i do not agree with their practice i will say : if you have  policy in place doesn't matter who he is if he doesn't abide by it he's braking the rules , even Totalbiscuit has stated in argument with Jesse Cox , as a Reviewer you can have your lawyers fight it, as a "let's player"  you don't don't and even if you tried you would loose most likely

 

And I disagreed about that with TB and actually thought Jesse had a better point: What is the different between a let's play and a review? The objective criticism? The fact that Jesse uses humor? Is it the length? One would say TB is unnecessarily verbose for the purpose of exploiting the youtube system for example: The longer the videos the more "time watching" he has on his channel and the more it gets promoted and more views and revenue he gets. Despite his claims he is pretty much running a let's play after the first 10 or 15 minutes and just pads the fuck out of the video to make it 30 min to 1 hour to get those same characteristics popular lets players get too.

 

Besides TB gives himself way too much credit as somebody who studied law. There is an order of magnitude of difference between knowing the law and being an effective lawyer which would of course argue his client "Let's play" videos are criticism and satire which are both (not just journalism mind you) covered under fair use. He would simply point out that a let's play it's not "just" about playing but about the criticism of the source material and such. At most all a guy like Jesse would have to do is run shorter series and more varied games, something he could easily do without loosing a single step.

 

Hell Joe has had his problems but they are small compared to the TONS of videos he's put out. He is also using the "review" thing as a vehicle for his main purpose which is comedy videos.

[sgloux3470]

I don't know why you think machinima is any more appropriate than a review or a let's play. Also, Roosterteeth has been doing game commentaries for about 8 years now, and it's been a big part of it, so I find it a little unbelievable that you're calming to not know they did that. Not to mention, you should probably stop using examples that you don't know a fucking thing about to back up your argument.

 

Also, I've never really known about reviews or many let's plays actually spoiling a game. Also, if Nintendo really gave a fuck about protecting their IPs from being spoiled they'd take the video down outright, not start taking a cut. This is happening because they're greedy, there is no other reason. They're just too stupid to see that everyone ends up loosing this way. They loose out on free advertising, the video creator looses money, and the audience looses out on entertainment.

The only thing I knew they did was achievement hunter, which was more of a strategy guide. Or stuff like the halo horse video stuff. My point is Roosterteeth madr their own content, platform, partberships and are run like a business and not a kid in a basement.

There's no reason the video couldn't exist without ad revenue if every twat with a mildly successful youtube channel didn't quit their day job. The ideal scenario to me is people stop trying to make a living playing video games and then people who actually just want to make videos for the sake of videos will do it. I said the same thing in the modding scene back in the day when everyone wanted to be paid for their work. I said the same thing when I worked on a website producing commentaries, strategy guides and editorial content. There's always the one asshole who joins a passion project and then bitches about getting paid, seemingly forgetting that everyone else is working for free because of their passion for doing it. Working on these sort of endeavours and making money on it requires some entrepreneurship, not just clicking a button on youtube.

If I had a fucking nickel everytime someone was disgruntled about not getting paid and then went and fucked everyone else over I could build a quad Titan X pc.

[Blebekblebek]

it doesn't matter when money is involved

 

if anything you do can make you money then why not doing it?

they decide didn't do it because of legal issues that might arise, so instead choose to risk losing everything they decide not to involved at all to protect their content revenue.

 

seriously Nintendo need to adapt with how people live by today standard (and in the future)

we are aging, TV/Radio/newspaper no longer being main source of information and entertainments, and youngster today will start the world someday.

 

every arguments always countered by classic "get a real job" "why you expecting to get paid by playing games?" opinion.

 

well... one thing I could tell you, welcome to new era where you can get money just to be really good with what you do.

that's definition of JOB, if you want good quality content better than your TV, then you are going to right directions.

 

it doesn't matter if the creator monetized their video or not, the money from the ads will keep rolling, and when you not claim it, youtube get it 100% of your work.

No one ever mention or add "TIME" when you making good content to view.

 

you can't make good content on regular basis without motivation, and motivation drives to another good things.

but it needs funds, times, dedication.

 

that's practically what Linus do.

 

Windows didn't claim their share when Linus using it for benchmark, neither 3Dmark, Intel, Amd, Nvidia, and so on...

because again if every company starts using that fair use term over everything, like nintendo did, then what's left there to scrap for creator? therefore why bother making content, let alone a good one, which require professional camera, mic, all that freaking multi thousand dollar stuff?

and we go back to our crappy show on our TV again.

[EpicGeekonFire]

Nintendo was also junk in my eyes, never had my own system from them, used my friends and went home disgusted. 

 

And they want free money from people who play their games too?

 

lawl

[Camul]

The only thing I knew they did was achievement hunter, which was more of a strategy guide. Or stuff like the halo horse video stuff. My point is Roosterteeth madr their own content, platform, partberships and are run like a business and not a kid in a basement.

There's no reason the video couldn't exist without ad revenue if every twat with a mildly successful youtube channel didn't quit their day job. The ideal scenario to me is people stop trying to make a living playing video games and then people who actually just want to make videos for the sake of videos will do it. I said the same thing in the modding scene back in the day when everyone wanted to be paid for their work. I said the same thing when I worked on a website producing commentaries, strategy guides and editorial content. There's always the one asshole who joins a passion project and then bitches about getting paid, seemingly forgetting that everyone else is working for free because of their passion for doing it. Working on these sort of endeavours and making money on it requires some entrepreneurship, not just clicking a button on youtube.

If I had a fucking nickel everytime someone was disgruntled about not getting paid and then went and fucked everyone else over I could build a quad Titan X pc.

 

So why is any of the content that Achievement Hunter made back then any more acceptable than the content that people like Angry Joe put out? The line you draw at what is acceptable and what isn't seems to be completely arbitrary.

 

Do you really think RoosterTeeth was run like a business from day one? They created the early episodes of Red vs. Blue in a room in Burnie's house. They even ended up recording their friends doing lines over the phone. They distributed their content by setting up a server in their work place secretly, and when they got found out they distributed them through torrents. And they certainly didn't start out with any business relationships. They only started to run themselves like a business once they became more popular and expanded. Why? Because I doubt any of them really knew anything about running a business back when the first started, and they learned all of what they know gradually.

 

Sure a video could exist without it being monetized, but just because they do monetize it doesn't mean that they're not doing it for the joy of doing it. The people that are trying to make a living off of it are the people doing it because they love it. It's not like making videos on YouTube is some guaranteed way to get rich, so I doubt they're in it for the money. It's a way to share content you enjoy making, and being able to sustain a living off that content only allows you to keep doing what you love. Anyway, I'm sure most of the people making content like this work other jobs anyway. Being able to monetize content is a good thing to do as it generates more money which you can invest back into the content. Being able to do that will allow you to make better content, and that may allow you to turn your small time YouTube channel into something bigger.

[sgloux3470]

So why is any of the content that Achievement Hunter made back then any more acceptable than the content that people like Angry Joe put out? The line you draw at what is acceptable and what isn't seems to be completely arbitrary.

 

Do you really think RoosterTeeth was run like a business from day one? They created the early episodes of Red vs. Blue in a room in Burnie's house. They even ended up recording their friends doing lines over the phone. They distributed their content by setting up a server in their work place secretly, and when they got found out they distributed them through torrents. And they certainly didn't start out with any business relationships. They only started to run themselves like a business once they became more popular and expanded. Why? Because I doubt any of them really knew anything about running a business back when the first started, and they learned all of what they know gradually.

 

Sure a video could exist without it being monetized, but just because they do monetize it doesn't mean that they're not doing it for the joy of doing it. The people that are trying to make a living off of it are the people doing it because they love it. It's not like making videos on YouTube is some guaranteed way to get rich, so I doubt they're in it for the money. It's a way to share content you enjoy making, and being able to sustain a living off that content only allows you to keep doing what you love. Anyway, I'm sure most of the people making content like this work other jobs anyway. Being able to monetize content is a good thing to do as it generates more money which you can invest back into the content. Being able to do that will allow you to make better content, and that may allow you to turn your small time YouTube channel into something bigger.

 

It's transformative work.  More likely to fall under fair use.

 

Joe's reviews are probably fine, but let's plays in general don't really fall under fair use by any sensible standard.  There's a huge difference between actually producing something and just pushing the record button while you play a game.  

 

They also weren't making money off their early RvB stuff.  They did it for free.  If I remember correctly, it wasn't until they started printing DVD's and selling t-shirts etc that they had a significant income source for it.  Conventions were very crucial for them when it came to making money.

 

My point is that if they're lucky enough to monetize it great, that's fine.  But they're not entitled to it.  They're incredibly lucky to be paid for it, and even more incredibly lucky to make a living off it.  What they are doing is marginally less impressive than  spamming referral links on facebook. In this case, instead of Joe bitching that Nintendo won't pay him money, he should instead make videos featuring their stuff because his fucking fans gave him the money to do it.  I think that would be the classy thing to do. (But Joe is anything but classy...)  

 

 

I'm a little bitter over this, because as I've said I've known some tremendous assholes who thought that because they did work they should be paid, even if it was upfront about being a fan project and that no one was making money.  I've also known more than a few scammers who stole content from other people to make their mods and then convince a bunch of kids to donate money to them to "support development of their epic mod." Early access on steam is the modern day equivalent of this.  There are many companies shitting out unfinished survival games and cashing in on the people who rabidly buy these games only to never finish them.  The modern age of patreon and all this other donation bullshit just reminds me of those kinds of people.  The liars, cheaters and scammers who don't just do it for the love of it, who instead try and make money off of other people's work. 

 

There are plenty of people on Patreon that do it right, but there's a lot of people there that produce nothing but promises and make a lot of money every month.