Bigtime YouTuber, AngryJoe, says enough is enough with Nintendo

[TroubleKlef]

Watch the video again. He does not say they are being greedy for not taking free advertising. What he is trying to say is we are playing your game, we are advertising your game that we had to purchase and buy your console including the expensive controllers but that not enought, you want more from us, you want to take the cash from having your game in our video. People watch angry joe for the personality. That just greedy and they want to take every single penny.

 

And @TroubleKlef what the video instead of assuming crap.

 

I was referring to the forum posts. So please, don't assume I'm talking about the video.

[Yog]

You know, it's funny...the general population seems to go through separate waves of outrage at various things as they find things out. The people who pay attention to the news discovered this months ago and were angry. Then the youtubers who specialize in Nintendo videos went through this and people who pay attention to them were outraged. Now various youtubers finally discover this at random times and their followers become outraged. Unfortunately, outrage is sudden, fleeting, and doesn't make a company change - especially when it's not through a unified front.

[Misanthrope]

You know, it's funny...the general population seems to go through separate waves of outrage at various things as they find things out. The people who pay attention to the news discovered this months ago and were angry. Then the youtubers who specialize in Nintendo videos went through this and people who pay attention to them were outraged. Now various youtubers finally discover this at random times and their followers become outraged. Unfortunately, outrage is sudden, fleeting, and doesn't make a company change - especially when it's not through a unified front.

 

Yeah:

 

http://www.twitch.tv/directory

 

Take a look at the most viewed games and keep scrolling until you find a Nintendo game: There's your answer and it's very real and tangible effect, Nintendo games get ignored when they should be rocking the top of the list and would become so much more popular and perhaps even save the Wii U if Nintendo could see beyond their own ass (Cause their nose is currently stuck up there)

[Camul]

It's transformative work.  More likely to fall under fair use.

 

Joe's reviews are probably fine, but let's plays in general don't really fall under fair use by any sensible standard.  There's a huge difference between actually producing something and just pushing the record button while you play a game.  

 

They also weren't making money off their early RvB stuff.  They did it for free.  If I remember correctly, it wasn't until they started printing DVD's and selling t-shirts etc that they had a significant income source for it.  Conventions were very crucial for them when it came to making money.

 

My point is that if they're lucky enough to monetize it great, that's fine.  But they're not entitled to it.  They're incredibly lucky to be paid for it, and even more incredibly lucky to make a living off it.  What they are doing is marginally less impressive than  spamming referral links on facebook. In this case, instead of Joe bitching that Nintendo won't pay him money, he should instead make videos featuring their stuff because his fucking fans gave him the money to do it.  I think that would be the classy thing to do. (But Joe is anything but classy...)  

 

 

I'm a little bitter over this, because as I've said I've known some tremendous assholes who thought that because they did work they should be paid, even if it was upfront about being a fan project and that no one was making money.  I've also known more than a few scammers who stole content from other people to make their mods and then convince a bunch of kids to donate money to them to "support development of their epic mod." Early access on steam is the modern day equivalent of this.  There are many companies shitting out unfinished survival games and cashing in on the people who rabidly buy these games only to never finish them.  The modern age of patreon and all this other donation bullshit just reminds me of those kinds of people.  The liars, cheaters and scammers who don't just do it for the love of it, who instead try and make money off of other people's work. 

 

There are plenty of people on Patreon that do it right, but there's a lot of people there that produce nothing but promises and make a lot of money every month.

 

I've already said that I don't care about fair use. I'm not concerned with Nintendo's legal right to do this. I'm saying they're doing something shitty and greedy.

 

Roosterteeth started doing the subscription service and selling merchandise as a way of monetizing because it was probably the easiest way of making any amount of significant money back then. It seems that the way people go about monetizing their content also matters to you. I have no idea why. That's probably another nonsensical line you're drawing there.

 

Why aren't they entitled to it? They have far more right to it than Nintendo does. When I watch a let's play I do so because I care about the person playing it. It's their personality, their ability to keep talking for the entire length of the video, their ability to entertain me. Then there's all of the editing that goes into the video. Although a game that interest me is necessary, it's the least crucial part of the formula.

 

Also, I don't watch AngryJoe, but I get the sense that the reason that he isn't doing Nintendo games is more about the principle than not being able to make money off of it. Let's plays are a basically free advertising. Not only that but for fans it's the only form of advertising that you can trust now, since studios refuse to put out demos and rely on trailers that have no actual game footage. But that's a different subject.

 

It seems like you're entire argument has boiled down to comparing group x to group y, even though they're nothing alike. Wanting to monetize your content does not mean you aren't doing it for the joy of doing it. It certainly does not mean that you're comparable to people that do little more than re-distribute other people's content just to make some quick cash. 

[LAwLz]

Remember people, the core issue here is that the law allows them to do this.

Nintendo are idiots for exploiting an issue with the law, but I think the fact that they even have the power to do so is an issue.

 

Not quite sure how this is news though. Nintendo have been doing it for ages.

[tobben]

Nintendo is out of touch with the modern age. 

 

They know nothing of how to handle modern PR and to embrace the internet age and people like Angry Joe who could otherwise have a reach with audiences that Nintendo can only dream of. This stuff is free advertising at its finest. But nope, greedy corporations going to be greedy. 

There are games where the youtube gameplay videos doesn't really

amount to free advertising. Telltales games would be a great example,

you can pretty much watch a playthrough and be done with it. But for

most nintendo games i don't really see a problem.. 

[alicskysareblue]

I get Joe Verda's point but man I wish he would chill with the over reacting, it's one thing in his reviews but in stuff like this I wish he would just play it cool, he sounds like the overreacting that goes on youtube.

 

anyways nintendo can do this , are genuine dicks and are unlikely to change their stance.

[Blebekblebek]

instead angry joe as a role model to explain

boogi version is alot more understandable and easy to process (if you trying to understand it)

 

again, it's legal to do it, but... it just stupid decision

the worst part if someday, every company start doing the same.

it will be over for any creator making good content for youtube.

[RazeG3SG1]

Nintendo need a tight bitch slap to wake up by Hideo Kojima! 

[ivan134]

Yeah:

 

http://www.twitch.tv/directory

 

Take a look at the most viewed games and keep scrolling until you find a Nintendo game: There's your answer and it's very real and tangible effect, Nintendo games get ignored when they should be rocking the top of the list and would become so much more popular and perhaps even save the Wii U if Nintendo could see beyond their own ass (Cause their nose is currently stuck up there)

That isn't really a good metric though. Usually the games with the most views are either multiplayer games like LoL, hearthstone, dots 2, CSGO or a new single player game that recently came out, which is why bloodborne is up there. Most of nintendo's games are single player. Whenever there is a smash 4 tourney going on which happens every week, they get good viewers.

[othertomperson]

And I disagreed about that with TB and actually thought Jesse had a better point: What is the different between a let's play and a review? The objective criticism? The fact that Jesse uses humor? Is it the length? One would say TB is unnecessarily verbose for the purpose of exploiting the youtube system for example: The longer the videos the more "time watching" he has on his channel and the more it gets promoted and more views and revenue he gets. Despite his claims he is pretty much running a let's play after the first 10 or 15 minutes and just pads the fuck out of the video to make it 30 min to 1 hour to get those same characteristics popular lets players get too.

 

Besides TB gives himself way too much credit as somebody who studied law. There is an order of magnitude of difference between knowing the law and being an effective lawyer which would of course argue his client "Let's play" videos are criticism and satire which are both (not just journalism mind you) covered under fair use. He would simply point out that a let's play it's not "just" about playing but about the criticism of the source material and such. At most all a guy like Jesse would have to do is run shorter series and more varied games, something he could easily do without loosing a single step.

 

Hell Joe has had his problems but they are small compared to the TONS of videos he's put out. He is also using the "review" thing as a vehicle for his main purpose which is comedy videos.

 

The difference is that, for better or worse, TB considers himself the Press so takes particular issue with the idea of a company he is critiquing using DMCA takedowns to silence his consumer advice; whereas he views Let's Plays purely as entertainment. As much as he comes across as having a hugely inflated sense of self-importance, there is a conflict of interest here that arguably doesn't occur with Lets Plays.

[Misanthrope]

The difference is that, for better or worse, TB considers himself the Press so takes particular issue with the idea of a company he is critiquing using DMCA takedowns to silence his consumer advice; whereas he views Let's Plays purely as entertainment. As much as he comes across as having a hugely inflated sense of self-importance, there is a conflict of interest here that arguably doesn't occur with Lets Plays.

 

TB considers himself press but his material is arguably a lot more than a review and closer to a let's play. I mean if the only requirement for a let's player would be to talk about game mechanics, menus and such for 5 minutes then proceed with 3 hours of gameplay, there's a pretty easy way to circumvent the entertainment vs transformative label.

[Humbug]

One example is him explaining his new Area-51 PC, which now in the back of my mind I think he was given it by Alienware for that video he made - it made me cringe and I had to stop watching halfway through it, not because it was about Alienware but because he had no idea wtf he was talking about.

It's a bit immature for you to get offended. Being a gamer doesn't mean you have to keep up with the world of hardware or understand what a PCIE lane is. His is a gaming channel (not a tech channel), and he was just sharing his setup with his viewership. Take it for what it is and share in his joy, it's not a linustechtips video.

 

Joe started long ago as a console gamer and even an xbox enthusiasts at that. The fact that he is now even talking about a gaming PC is a big change for him.

Yes, and regardless the fact that he's a serious gamer itself makes him part of the same community as most of us. For most people the hardware is simply a means to enjoy PC gaming, not an end goal in itself and you shouldn't need to understand everything. Master race needs to be more inclusive sometimes LOL.

 

[elfensky]

That angry sarcasm Gotta love the guy...

[dalekphalm]

It's a bit immature for you to get offended. Being a gamer doesn't mean you have to keep up with the world of hardware or understand what a PCIE lane is. His is a gaming channel (not a tech channel), and he was just sharing his setup with his viewership. Take it for what it is and share in his joy, it's not a linustechtips video.

 

Yes, and regardless the fact that he's a serious gamer itself makes him part of the same community as most of us. For most people the hardware is simply a means to enjoy PC gaming, not an end goal in itself and you shouldn't need to understand everything. Master race needs to be more inclusive sometimes LOL.

I fully agree with your statement. Joe is excited about his new kickass Gaming PC - even if it is an Alienware. Let's be frank. Alienware computers are NOT BAD COMPUTERS. They are simply overpriced compared to a custom-build. But they also give you a unique case, a warranty, and no hassle.

 

Joe even said in his Alienware video, yeah he probably could have built his own PC, but he didn't want the hassle and didn't want to spend the time doing so. Besides, who fucking cares if he's on Linus' level or not with PC's? He's a PC GAMER, first and foremost, not a PC Technician. MOST PC gamers have even less knowledge than he does. PC gaming should be about inclusion into the community, not PCMR bullshit.

 

It's almost like those nerds who shame people at conventions because they aren't as knowledgeable as some random nerd determines that they must be.

 

@Kloaked normally we see eye to eye on many things, but I must disagree with you. Why does it matter if he knows anything about the internal mechanics of a PC? He's a game reviewer. We don't need to know what GTX 69 Yolo Swag video card is in a computer to know if a game is fun or not - or buggy or not. He wanted a beast computer, without any hassle. He also used to work for Dell, so he's got a soft spot for them. Is that a crime? No.

[Guest Kloaked]

@Kloaked normally we see eye to eye on many things, but I must disagree with you. Why does it matter if he knows anything about the internal mechanics of a PC? He's a game reviewer. We don't need to know what GTX 69 Yolo Swag video card is in a computer to know if a game is fun or not - or buggy or not. He wanted a beast computer, without any hassle. He also used to work for Dell, so he's got a soft spot for them. Is that a crime? No.

 

It's not even that, it's that he tries to talk about something he doesn't know about. The reason it bugs me so much is because I heard it all the time from someone I know personally. Guy is in his early 40's and every time electronics comes up in group conversations, he acts like he knows everything about what we're talking about when he's so far off in left field the crowd is wondering where the left fielder went.

 

For example, it took me three weeks to finally get through to him that copying and pasting a guitar track to a fully left and right panned channel will not yield the same results as actual double tracking. Or that the in-ear monitors he bought were in fact mono and not stereo.

[Misanthrope]

I get Joe Verda's point but man I wish he would chill with the over reacting, it's one thing in his reviews but in stuff like this I wish he would just play it cool, he sounds like the overreacting that goes on youtube.

 

anyways nintendo can do this , are genuine dicks and are unlikely to change their stance.

 

The man calls himself Angry Joe though: over the top violent and angry rants are kind of his thing.

[Misanthrope]

It's not even that, it's that he tries to talk about something he doesn't know about. The reason it bugs me so much is because I heard it all the time from someone I know personally. Guy is in his early 40's and every time electronics comes up in group conversations, he acts like he knows everything about what we're talking about when he's so far off in left field the crowd is wondering where the left fielder went.

 

For example, it took me three weeks to finally get through to him that copying and pasting a guitar track to a fully left and right panned channel will not yield the same results as actual double tracking. Or that the in-ear monitors he bought were in fact mono and not stereo.

 

He might have a problem with overstepping or being too confident. Your problem however, your inability to let things go without people acknowledging that they're wrong, is far more annoying.

[Guest Kloaked]

He might have a problem with overstepping or being too confident. Your problem however, your inability to let things go without people acknowledging that they're wrong, is far more annoying.

 

So letting people obliviously live in wonderland where they're always right, is what I should be doing?

 

I don't agree, and I won't ever will. I'm not gonna just keep my mouth shut when someone is spreading misinformation about something I know quite a bit about, especially when I can prove it.

[dalekphalm]

It's not even that, it's that he tries to talk about something he doesn't know about. The reason it bugs me so much is because I heard it all the time from someone I know personally. Guy is in his early 40's and every time electronics comes up in group conversations, he acts like he knows everything about what we're talking about when he's so far off in left field the crowd is wondering where the left fielder went.

 

For example, it took me three weeks to finally get through to him that copying and pasting a guitar track to a fully left and right panned channel will not yield the same results as actual double tracking. Or that the in-ear monitors he bought were in fact mono and not stereo.

Well obviously I sympathize about your acquaintance that thinks he knows everything. I've known many people like this, and yes, they are the bane of any Tech Enthusiasts existence.

 

However, I don't really see that with AngryJoe. When he's talking about his new PC, for example, you can tell he has a basic understanding of things. But, to me, it certainly doesn't sound like he's trying to BS everyone like he's a Master PC Technician or anything.

 

I just don't feel like he's pretending to be all knowledgeable here. Can you point out some specific quotes that make you feel this way?

[Guest Kloaked]

Well obviously I sympathize about your acquaintance that thinks he knows everything. I've known many people like this, and yes, they are the bane of any Tech Enthusiasts existence.

 

However, I don't really see that with AngryJoe. When he's talking about his new PC, for example, you can tell he has a basic understanding of things. But, to me, it certainly doesn't sound like he's trying to BS everyone like he's a Master PC Technician or anything.

 

I just don't feel like he's pretending to be all knowledgeable here. Can you point out some specific quotes that make you feel this way?

 

Yeah it's not just that single instance. I've watched his videos for years and this is something that's built up over time. I can't go back and look for every little thing he's said in his streams and Youtube videos and point them out, but they do happen enough for me to just want to not hear it anymore. 

[Misanthrope]

So letting people obliviously live in wonderland where they're always right, is what I should be doing?

 

Yes: if I had to confront every person I met that is wrong, that I don't like, that I disagree with, I'd be a convict for murder at this point. It's not about what you should be doing however but what is important to you: in the grand scheme of things some guy being wrong about audio monitor headphones however is pretty damn irrelevant to a mentally and emotionally healthy human being.

[Guest Kloaked]

Yes: if I had to confront every person I met that is wrong, that I don't like, that I disagree with, I'd be a convict for murder at this point. It's not about what you should be doing however but what is important to you: in the grand scheme of things some guy being wrong about audio monitor headphones however is pretty damn irrelevant to a mentally and emotionally healthy human being.

 

Except when this guy was around you almost every day of the week for work.

 

It's not like I approached this guy out of the blue who was minding his own business.

[Misanthrope]

Except when this guy was around you almost every day of the week for work.

 

It's not like I approached this guy out of the blue who was minding his own business.

 

Yes I do have coworkers who behave just like that. Luckily I've found ways to avoid them by focusing on other things, like work.

 

Seriously though given your demeanor and mine maybe we should be swapping nicknames.

[Guest Kloaked]

Yes I do have coworkers who behave just like that. Luckily I've found ways to avoid them by focusing on other things, like work.

 

Seriously though given your demeanor and mine maybe we should be swapping nicknames.

 

I don't see how you can judge me in this way based on text.

 

And this was work, as in music. I'm not gonna let someone in the music business, friend or not, say that copy and pasting guitars into a left and right channel is the same as double tracking, and other stuff that can easily be tested, and was tested to show what the correct way to do something is. It's not about me being right, I just want the truth out there.