China announces rules to limit spending on video games

[djksm]

Summary

China prohibits exessive spending on video games

 

Quotes

Quote

• The new rules, which will effectively set spending limits for online games
• Online games will now be banned from giving players rewards if they log in every day, if they spend on the game for the first time or if they spend several times on the game consecutively. All are common incentive mechanisms in online games.

 

My thoughts

I don't really think this is a good idea, it sounds like what my mom does to me.

 

Sources

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-issues-draft-rules-online-game-management-2023-12-22/

[Agall]

5 minutes ago, djksm said:

Summary

China prohibits exessive spending on video games

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

I don't really think this is a good idea, it sounds like what my mom does to me.

 

Sources

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-issues-draft-rules-online-game-management-2023-12-22/

Well its the CCP, I'm not surprised.

[mariushm]

I actually don't mind this, seems like measures that could help people with addiction issues or personalities prone to addiction  (like for example bonuses or rewards for buying several days in a row could cause players to have thoughts like "i have to buy again this day or I'm gonna miss a reward",  "gotta collect them all", "I'm the player with most consecutive daily game purchases", crap like that)

[emosun]

47 minutes ago, djksm said:

I don't really think this is a good idea, it sounds like what my mom does to me.

it's actually a good idea by the worst people imaginable.

spending huge amounts of money on digital gambling scams that are modern games pretty much SHOULD be limited.

the chinese government is more interested in stopping the devilish influences of the free world than gambling addiction , so not the best example of it being implemented but at least it's one example.

[manikyath]

china: doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

 

laws against promoting addictive behavior in video games are very necessary, but their focus on online gaming as the source of the problems their youth are facing is probably at least slightly too shallow.

[porina]

Gacha games as we know it will change in China then, and probably covers a lot of other live service game too.

 

The impact will depend on the exact wording they use.

 

Many games have an explicit daily login bonus, but also an indirect one in that in many you gain stamina over time which allows you to do things in game. Don't log in and cap, you waste potential progress opportunity.

 

First time buying offers, often time limited to make you bite then, is a well known tactic. Once they get you with that, you're much more likely to spend again in the future. This could be circumvented by having a one time item in the shop that is much better value than others, but can be bought any time thus it isn't the 1st time offer.

 

Probably no good workaround if multiple spending in a short time is banned. There is a small risk that while it might prevent some people from making multiple smaller purchases, those who want to go ahead may instead spend one time on bigger items to ensure they get what they want. 

 

Since China is big enough to be its own market, this probably wont have any impact in the rest of world in the short term.

 

BTW I'm daily active in two games developed in China that would be impacted by this: Genshin Impact and Azur Lane. I might dig out revenue numbers by region for them later for indication.

[Bananasplit_00]

Hey those are some really good rules! Like honestly that sounds great!

[alyen]

This will be interesting to see what is consider a video game. AliExpress has something for logging on everyday and also another part that is for playing certain games everyday for extra coin rewards.

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, djksm said:

Summary

China prohibits exessive spending on video games

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

I don't really think this is a good idea, it sounds like what my mom does to me.

 

Sources

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-issues-draft-rules-online-game-management-2023-12-22/

I think this is a great idea. Hopefully the EU jumps on board.

The Gacha/Lootbox model is just straight up evil.

 

There's only two acceptable microtransaction models:

- "Skins", where you get to change the appearance of things. The problem is that all skins become limited time, which results in people buying things out of FOMO. Hell to get "skins" for free in Fortnite, you basically have to no-life grind for a month. If I could just buy the skin for $2-$5 and it never gets removed (for limited time/license reasons), then I'm not under pressure to buy it. If the limited time and random aspect is removed from this, it's easier to get away with without becoming FOMO.

- "Mounts/Pets", Like above.

 

Anything else, and it's always P2W. I stop playing games when I have to buy "random chance" objects to improve other aspects of the game. Especially the games that are "Genshin" style Gacha systems which basically use the P2W power creeep trademark of Nexon Korea.

 

Likewise, the "pay to recharge" is a scam, especially in games are single player. Angry Birds 2, the Mobile version of Dr.Mario, and a pile of other stuff did this. It's stupid.

 

But I want this to go further. I want all money paid into a live service to be refunded if a live service is shut down. Because shutting down the live service at that point is theft.

 

[Mark Kaine]

6 hours ago, djksm said:

My thoughts

I don't really think this is a good idea, it sounds like what my mom does to me.

well, but ironically,  that's why this is a good thing.

 

[Beskamir]

A blow to gambling mechanics is always a positive. Not sure about all the other stuff but glad that's being nerfed.

[Eaglerino]

11 hours ago, mariushm said:

I actually don't mind this, seems like measures that could help people with addiction issues or personalities prone to addiction  (like for example bonuses or rewards for buying several days in a row could cause players to have thoughts like "i have to buy again this day or I'm gonna miss a reward",  "gotta collect them all", "I'm the player with most consecutive daily game purchases", crap like that)

how in the world do you not mind relentless CCP government overreach

[Taf the Ghost]

Umm... did China just kill most of their gaming industry overnight?

[porina]

10 hours ago, Kisai said:

But I want this to go further. I want all money paid into a live service to be refunded if a live service is shut down. Because shutting down the live service at that point is theft.

I nearly agreed fully with your post then there was this part. Payments you make to a live service game can be seen as more like a voluntary sub to keep it going and develop new content. No one ever reads the TOS but generally there will be some notification period before shutting down and often at that point they also stop new payments. You're guaranteed at least that notification period to enjoy whatever you have.

 

I forgot the name of the game since I didn't play it, but one made an offline stand alone offering so players could still access some content after live service closure. I think that is the best way to go about it and one I would like to see. So you kinda keep most of what you got but no further development is done.

 

Going back to one example, I have spent perhaps $200 on Azur Lane. Sounds like a lot? I'm no whale. I've been playing it since worldwide release, over 5 years now. A little here and there adds up but I have got a lot of hours out of it.

 

A non-gaming example might be like going to the cinema. You make your payment and enjoy the content, but when it is over, you get to keep your memories. At least with games you can make screenshots and videos too. Don't try that at the cinema  

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Umm... did China just kill most of their gaming industry overnight?

Is there really a loss here if 99% of said "gaming industry" are games with absolutely ridiculous "extras" pricing for which you're pressured to use on all ends or be forced to grind to a "no life" extent if you go with free approach? Yeah, I think not.

[PhantomJaguarr]

Some mobile game company stock prices took a hit lol. 

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

Is there really a loss here if 99% of said "gaming industry" are games with absolutely ridiculous "extras" pricing for which you're pressured to use on all ends or be forced to grind to a "no life" extent if you go with free approach? Yeah, I think not.

While a loss of Gacha games isn't bad, collapsing an industry has major knock-on effects to the rest of the industry. Especially with some of Tencent's holdings around the globe.

[lewdicrous]

[porina]

1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

While a loss of Gacha games isn't bad

I think we have to split out two parts here, the core game itself, and the gacha monetisation model. This feels like a step towards controlling the latter. Devs/publishers will have to evolve their monetisation model accordingly.

 

I might be an exception but I do play many games that would fall into this measure. I actually want to spend more to support them but don't because nothing feels worth it. The pricing model is tuned so far towards whales that small spending feels insignificant.

 

Also it isn't limited to gacha only, but any live service game even those that do not significantly feature gacha elements. Pay to progress faster, or unlock luxury features (freemium) to make the game more comfortable.

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, porina said:

I nearly agreed fully with your post then there was this part. Payments you make to a live service game can be seen as more like a voluntary sub to keep it going and develop new content.

No, what I want is either the server to be open-sourced, or operated in perpetuity with the store shut down. None of this you spend 1$-$10,000 over the lifetime of the game and then the publisher decides they want more money and releases a sequel to the game and shuts down the old one.

 

2 hours ago, porina said:

 

I forgot the name of the game since I didn't play it, but one made an offline stand alone offering so players could still access some content after live service closure. I think that is the best way to go about it and one I would like to see. So you kinda keep most of what you got but no further development is done.

Magireco English did that, but the post-shutdown is worthless since they stripped all the Live2D content from it. So you basically just had the static images that you unlocked and that was it. You could not play or finish the story.

 

2 hours ago, porina said:

Going back to one example, I have spent perhaps $200 on Azur Lane. Sounds like a lot? I'm no whale. I've been playing it since worldwide release, over 5 years now. A little here and there adds up but I have got a lot of hours out of it.

 

A non-gaming example might be like going to the cinema. You make your payment and enjoy the content, but when it is over, you get to keep your memories. At least with games you can make screenshots and videos too. Don't try that at the cinema  

That is different, going to the theatre is exactly the same as a one-time rental.  PPV has largely been a failure for the same reason it doesn't work anywhere else. 

 

The reason paying 1 dollar to play an arcade game or a UFO catcher works, is because you can directly correlate your time at the arcade. And for a while, I was "ok" with this kind of monetization, but then it became obvious that companies just adjust the difficultly to the point where you never actually quite win, you have to spend quite a bit of money to get good at the game. Remember, "the house always wins", and thus it's a casino.

 

That is not skill, that is intentionally making it hard to make people with various mental conditions spend their entire income on a stupid digital asset. An asset they will have nothing to show for it if the game shuts down.

 

That's why streaming a lot of games is popular, because these companies shut them down when they don't make them ENOUGH money. So it's a two-fold "this is what the game was like" and "also look at the cool stuff the game used to have that you can't get anymore."

 

 

[Doobeedoo]

Actually good. Then again p2w games are not games, some f2p games are cancer with showing this crap everywhere they can. Some are ok. The daily login is bad for some games. 

But yeah this all comes so late though. Should've never came nowhere near as bad as it is.

Oh and for WoW I find it's multi layer payment with mtx as well quite something. I buy a game, buy the expansion, pay monthly sub, yet on top of all that they are going aggro more on mtx store with mounts, transmogs, crap that should be obtainable in game. Game you buy, eith exps, and also pay sub. Oh right they have a gold token you can buy too.

[Kisai]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/23/china-considers-revising-gaming-rules-after-tech-giants-lose-billions

Quote

Chinese authorities have said they may revise newly drafted online gaming rules shortly after the planned restrictions caused major tech companies to lose billions of dollars.

 

State broadcaster CCTV reported on Saturday that the authorities have heard the “concerns and opinions raised by all parties”, adding that “the State Press and Publication Administration will study them carefully and further revise and improve them”, referring to the media regulator.

 

The authorities released a draft on Friday with a wide range of rules and regulations aimed at curbing online spending and rewards in video games.

 

Its impact was immediate, dealing a massive blow to the world’s biggest games market. Investors went into a tailspin, leading to as much as $80bn in market value being wiped off from China’s two biggest companies, industry leader Tencent Holdings and Netease.

...

Several United States and European video games developers saw shares take a hit after Friday’s announcement, but the losses were small when compared with Tencent’s 16 percent tumble. Friday’s news wiped about $54bn off the company’s share value, according to Bloomberg News.

So not only did the Chinese companies absolutely ridicious amounts of stock value, many US and EU ones did as well. Fancy that.

 

The writing is on the wall for Gacha-Lootbox models then. Cause if we've seen anything from PRC rules before (eg the film industry) that they don't back down, they just chip away.

 

 

[HumdrumPenguin]

Is there anything stopping these gaming companies from releasing a version with limited spending in China only? They lose money from the Chinese market, but they can very well try to get back by increasing prices in the international market.

[thorhammerz]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:30 AM, Taf the Ghost said:

Umm... did China just kill most of their gaming industry overnight?

I would conjecture that they're just blindly firing their darts (and praying some stick), hoping that the populace's productivity will magically rise because they suddenly can't enjoy their games as much.

[xAcid9]

Good for them, hope my country do the same.