China announces rules to limit spending on video games

[Mihle]

I hope lootboxes and daily rewards get banned everywhere, they are both shitty things that shouldn't exists.

[Rarity]

well this would certainly help in some cases if the person is addicted or something 

[TetraSky]

Weird they don't want free rewards just by login in. It's not like the user is spending any money for doing so.
I do agree with the rest. Though it frankly should go further.

[Just A Name]

On 12/23/2023 at 5:41 AM, Kisai said:

The Gacha/Lootbox model is just straight up evil.

Imo, Overwatch 1 lootbox system is the most balanced type of lootbox systems in the gaming industry. Shame that they moved on to the money-grabbing model of Battle Pass

[Mark Kaine]

10 hours ago, TetraSky said:

Weird they don't want free rewards just by login in. It's not like the user is spending any money for doing so.
I do agree with the rest. Though it frankly should go further.

not really weird... that free stuff is there to encourage people buying stuff from "the nice guy" who gave them "free stuff"...

 

also often this can mean u get a "free" icon and now have even more reason to buy the matching skin for 30 bucks...

 

even the sounds you hear when getting free "rewards" are made to get you to spend money.

 

capitalism is all about that sweet dopamine rush, without it people wouldn't buy all the trash they do... lol.

 

you're welcome! 

[Mark Kaine]

On 12/24/2023 at 10:07 AM, Rarity said:

well this would certainly help in some cases if the person is addicted or something 

so 99.9% of humanity?  humans are dopamine addicts by their very nature, it's what makes them do all this stupid stuff to begin with ~ 

[williamcll]

On 12/23/2023 at 5:31 PM, RejZoR said:

Is there really a loss here if 99% of said "gaming industry" are games with absolutely ridiculous "extras" pricing for which you're pressured to use on all ends or be forced to grind to a "no life" extent if you go with free approach? Yeah, I think not.

It will definitely give breathing space to regular priced Chinese games like dyson sphere program so that works in my book. Gaming shouldn't be a prime industry in a socialist environment anyway.

[starsmine]

I love parts of it, hate other parts.
Like fuck yea ban all these toxic as fuck dark monitization practices like daily log in shit. 

 

On 12/24/2023 at 9:59 PM, Just A Name said:

Imo, Overwatch 1 lootbox system is the most balanced type of lootbox systems in the gaming industry. Shame that they moved on to the money-grabbing model of Battle Pass

I didn't mind it, but it was cancer for seasonals.

[Brooksie359]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:35 PM, thorhammerz said:

I would conjecture that they're just blindly firing their darts (and praying some stick), hoping that the populace's productivity will magically rise because they suddenly can't enjoy their games as much.

To be fair video game addiction is generally bad for both the person and society as a whole especially if that addiction also becomes a gambling addiction as well. I like video games but as someone who used to be addicted to video games I can safely say that you need to be careful to avoid issues especially if you have ADHD. Video games are super wired for ADHD mind in terms of the dopamine reward system and other people can fall prey to it as well so some degree of caution is probably warranted. This is especially the case where video game makers to some extent design their games to be addictive especially if it is a game with micro transactions. Social media companies do the same as well. Anyways I am not a fan of large goverment control but I don't think these changes are bad in terms of their goal. 

[Sauron]

If I understand this correctly and they're placing a maximum on how much you can spend on a single game then I don't mind it that much to be honest. Charging for content that would have been a free update or just free mods 20 years ago has gotten a little out of hand, not to mention the predatory loot box model. There should probably be a broader regulation addressing predatory behavior in general rather than just focusing on videogames but eh.

[thorhammerz]

3 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

To be fair video game addiction is generally bad for both the person and society as a whole especially if that addiction also becomes a gambling addiction as well. I like video games but as someone who used to be addicted to video games I can safely say that you need to be careful to avoid issues especially if you have ADHD. Video games are super wired for ADHD mind in terms of the dopamine reward system and other people can fall prey to it as well so some degree of caution is probably warranted. This is especially the case where video game makers to some extent design their games to be addictive especially if it is a game with micro transactions. Social media companies do the same as well. Anyways I am not a fan of large goverment control but I don't think these changes are bad in terms of their goal. 

Whether the game developers (or any consumer entertainment product marketers / designers, really) are intentionally taking advantage of human behavioral patterns is entirely beside my point: the populace is going to get their dopamine kicks one way or another (whether that's from gaming, gambling, alcohol, opium, whatever): they aren't about to magically work harder/longer hours when they've had their taste and the government one day tries to say "no".

[Brooksie359]

2 hours ago, thorhammerz said:

Whether the game developers (or any consumer entertainment product marketers / designers, really) are intentionally taking advantage of human behavioral patterns is entirely beside my point: the populace is going to get their dopamine kicks one way or another (whether that's from gaming, gambling, alcohol, opium, whatever): they aren't about to magically work harder/longer hours when they've had their taste and the government one day tries to say "no".

I do know there are healthy sources of dopamine right? Thinks like exercise or going out with friends. Yeah it is getting harder to avoid quick dopamine hit activities but I wouldn't say that we shouldn't at least try. 

[Kisai]

On 12/26/2023 at 1:19 PM, thorhammerz said:

Whether the game developers (or any consumer entertainment product marketers / designers, really) are intentionally taking advantage of human behavioral patterns is entirely beside my point: the populace is going to get their dopamine kicks one way or another (whether that's from gaming, gambling, alcohol, opium, whatever): they aren't about to magically work harder/longer hours when they've had their taste and the government one day tries to say "no".

For those who refuse to learn from history, look up "prohibition era"

 

The difference here, is that card payments are traceable. Nobody is gonna play a gacha game using cash. The mechanism to that is to go to 7-11 and buy cards, but the government can pretty much say "no more game cards of any kind" and that's the end of that. Game cards from a foreign country won't count towards the game in their own country. So if PRC gamers were addicted to gacha grift they would have to play US games, with high latency, or somehow acquire a starlink receiver.

 

To that end, gachapon/lootboxes are gambling, and if you don't think so, a century ago, the same arguments were waged about slot machines that dispensed candy.

https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1924/02/24/101582470.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1924/02/24/archives/says-slot-machine-is-a-crimebreeder-magistrate-charges-that-the.html

Quote

SAYS SLOT MACHINE IS A CRIME-BREEDER; Magistrate Charges That the Element of Chance Makes Thieves of Children.

Gambling and slot machines in candy and other stores were denounied yesterday as breeders of thievery among children by Magistrate Henry M.P. Goodman, in Yorkville Court, after he had heard a case brought against a store proprietor by a detective of the special service squad.

Look familiar?

 

There's two arguments to be made, 

 

- Let people have their fun, it's harmless

- This is predatory behavior, and is harmful.

 

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. It is predatory, and people who are "weak" to such activities, are usually on the neural divergence spectrums. There are also people who are weak to gambling addictions as a whole, where they fail to understand how the house always wins, and might pay out 97% of everything put in, but over time you will lose all of it.

 

Like anything else, if you want to go have fun, and you have money you can set on fire, gambling is less harmful than substance abuse. Because it's impossible to ever quit everything from nicotine and alcohols to opiates cold turkey. You can always quit gambling cold turkey by making it impossible to actually participate in the gambling. But some people can't, because their mental facilities still believes they can "win it", or worse "win back what I lost."

 

Online games, Gacha, Lootboxes, and all the various FOMO just escalates that inability to walk away from a gambling addiction. People who are pre-disposed to gambling additions, should quite literately, not play ANY internet connected game, ever, and not have phones that games can be installed to it.

 

 

[Just A Name]

On 12/26/2023 at 1:58 PM, starsmine said:

I didn't mind it, but it was cancer for seasonals.

Well, at least you can still buy the skins using free-farming currency (with the option to buy extra loot boxes to gain more) albeit at 3 times the cost for that seasonal event or wait for next year to buy it at a regular cost

[Kisai]

Looks like more of it is likely getting walked back:

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-removes-official-after-video-games-rules-spark-turmoil-sources-2024-01-02/

Quote

HONG KONG, Jan 2 (Reuters) - China removed an official at a government body overseeing its press and publications regulator, five sources who were briefed on the matter said, days after Chinese gaming stocks were hit by proposed rules to curb spending on video games.

 

Feng Shixin was removed last week from his position as head of the publishing unit of the Communist Party's Publicity Department, the sources said. The department oversees the National Press and Publication Administration (NPPA) which in turn regulates China's vast video games sector.

 

 

from the 27th:

Quote

SHANGHAI, Dec 27 (Reuters) - China's Tencent Holdings (0700.HK) saw its shares stage a partial rebound on Wednesday, the first day of trade after authorities vowed to make improvements to proposed rules that had sent stocks in video game companies plunging.

 

Draft rules were published on Friday that seek to curb spending and the use of rewards that encourage the playing of video games, sparking fears that regulators were once again cracking down heavily on the sector.

 

But following dramatic tumbles in gaming stocks, China's video game regulator - the National Press and Publication Administration - has struck a more conciliatory tone, saying it would improve the rules by "earnestly studying" public views. It then approved new licenses for 105 domestic online games for December - more than the average month.

 

Funny how money seems to change peoples tones doesn't it?

 

What I think is probably coming down the pipe are likely restrictions on domestic gaming being watered down, but no restrictions on chinese-owned-foreigner-played games.