BMW heated seats subscription UK

[CTR640]

41 minutes ago, Motifator said:

If you wanna go about your own way, could always get one of those heating seat pads. Can also wrap the steering wheel for cold climate. Though, it'd make more sense to simply opt for an older model that has these functions without an overly stupid subscription system.

The older models will be soon discontinued for sure.

[LogicalDrm]

1 hour ago, IceSuperDave said:

@LogicalDrm Hi sorry I hope I have complied now like I say first time posting about something other then trying to get advice on pc upgrades.

All good now.

[StDragon]

I'm surprised BMW didn't sell the feature as an NFT.

 

 

[Senzelian]

On 7/13/2022 at 11:13 PM, IceSuperDave said:

Linus predicted this may become a thing, just like most he thought it would be Tesla who would introduce this but looks like BMW may have beaten them to it.

He didn't really predict anything. BMW made the news back in 2018 when they already charged 300€ for Apple Car Play. After 3 years you had to pay 100€ each year extra.

 

Considering that BMW were also the first ones to adopt keyless entry via Google Pay, it was very clear in which direction they were going.

 

It's just one of those things were we now act all surprised, because we've already forgotten how terrible of a company they are.

The vanos pump says hello btw...

 

Edit:
And I never thought I'd say this, but I'm gonna buy an American car, cause German cars suck ass.

It's so humiliating to think about all the Germans making fun about american cars, especially in the 90s and 2000s and now look at us... VW, Audi, BMW and Mercedes are all useless. Nothing but cheap crap.

[Arika]

I really hope manufacturers will continue to make cars that don't have to connect to the internet until i no longer need a car

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

 

I guess in a way, this may save people money if they are the type who lease new vehicles. For £10 a month, pay for only the handful of months of a lease term you'll actually need heated seats. Oppose to however many hundreds of bucks it would cost outright. If there was a provision where if you exceed the outright cost, the feature would be unlocked permanently, that would be cool. But who am I kidding, it's free money in the eyes of the manufacturer. 

 

On 7/13/2022 at 2:13 PM, IceSuperDave said:

This would make cars heavy and less efficient for no reason if you don't want or need these features.

Technically, this is already a thing, people just didn't bat an eye because it wasn't tied to a subscription service. Car companies tie features to packages all the time. If you wanted leather seats for example, it'll be tied to the luxury package for instance which also include a sunroof. Those are heavy and expensive but some people don't want a sunroof and they're left with no other choice if they want heated seats. If you really want a la carte, you might want to move to Japan. That seems like the only country where you can really customize your car the way you want and not be tied to packages. Though that seems to only be when you by from domestic brands. 

 

 

[TigerHawk]

How long until someone has a cracked version of the HVAC software/infotainment(wherever the software button is hidden) and it just enables all features.

 

Pretty fast I'd wager. Just like Tesla.

 

Edit: This is why, frankly, you should not trust any manufacturer who starts burying HVAC features in the infotainment. It just lends itself to software locking out something that is physically present and ready to use in the device to milk money out of you. From VW to BMW to Subaru.

 

If it doesn't have physical HVAC controls or other features that have been physical for decades and instead it buries them in a screen, I don't trust it.(glossy black "touch" controls are shitty too but at least they can't be software locked out for $$$)

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

 

 

Technically, this is already a thing, people just didn't bat an eye because it wasn't tied to a subscription service. Car companies tie features to packages all the time. If you wanted leather seats for example, it'll be tied to the luxury package for instance which also include a sunroof. Those are heavy and expensive but some people don't want a sunroof and they're left with no other choice if they want heated seats. If you really want a la carte, you might want to move to Japan. That seems like the only country where you can really customize your car the way you want and not be tied to packages. Though that seems to only be when you by from domestic brands. 

 

 

 

 

It has always been a thing, but the difference is that if you don't pay for the package you don't get the goods.  In this example you buy the car (which entails buying the options), but you then have to pay more on an ongoing basis to use those options.  And don't fool yourself into thinking any manufacturer is putting a few thousand dollars of extra's into a car that they aren't accounting for in the initial sale price.    

 

 

[jagdtigger]

8 hours ago, TigerHawk said:

glossy black "touch" controls are shitty too but at least they can't be software locked out for $$$

Since everything is ran by SW sadly they can. But i agree with the rest, touch based controls are stupid in a car....

[StDragon]

I wonder if BMW thought of an ejector seat option for when owner stops paying the lease.

[wanderingfool2]

18 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Since everything is ran by SW sadly they can. But i agree with the rest, touch based controls are stupid in a car....

Depends, badly designed or ill thought out touch based controls are pretty bad...which sadly a lot are.

 

I've seen equally horrible designed physical designs (there was one where they had a puck shifter, but it was placed really close to the volume...so really easy for a passenger to go to switch the volume and switch the gears instead)

[jagdtigger]

3 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Depends

Nope, every single touch interface is equally bad for safety. You have to look down on them for quite a while to operate and thats just asking fro trouble. Meanwhile the old button and knob design can be operated blindly only taking a look at a screen for a split second.

[Quackers101]

while it was news 1-2 years ago, just that it has "launched" now?

not really new, but RIP future tech.

[darknessblade]

I can already see a service pop up in the UK where people use a tool to connect to the OBD-II port of the car, to enable these features for 1/100th the cost, only charging a 1 time fee.

 

Mostly since all the hardware is already installed. but you need to "PAY" monthly to enable the hardware. a lot of people would rather opt for the cheaper option.

 

https://www.ifixit.com/News/52123/the-coming-battle-over-hacking-your-own-car

 

 

[saltycaramel]

Everybody likes recurring revenue.

Everybody has or will try to get all the recurring revenue he can.

You would too. I would. 

 

If said revenue is reinvested to support the product during its lifetime (as opposed to selling it to you and then you’re on your own), and to pay for research and development, it’s not necessarily a bad thing.

 

The “product” could be software (remember when people resisted the idea of paying subscriptions?) or smartphones or the perpetual-development smart car of the future. (gone will be the days when a car was what you get the day you drive out of the dealership, it will be a product in constant fw/sw/services development like a smartphone and someone ought to pay for that)

 

Go tell your 1997 self you would pay recurring subscriptions for cloud-music-video-games on your cellular phone. “But technically the music albums you’ve downloaded are now physically on the phone, why can’t I stop the subscription and continue listening to them??”. Yeah, no.

[saltycaramel]

Back in my day, software was distributed on floppy disks and you paid for it once, upfront.

 

Back in my day, we used PHONES to make PHONE CALLS. Not all this paid mobile software and subscription nonsense. 

 

Back in my day, you got whatever crappy interface or software in your car and that was it for the next 20 years, the car was exactly the same from its first day to its last in the car crusher. None of this subscription nonsense.

 

Those where the days.

Those industries were thriving. 

[wanderingfool2]

13 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Nope, every single touch interface is equally bad for safety. You have to look down on them for quite a while to operate and thats just asking fro trouble. Meanwhile the old button and knob design can be operated blindly only taking a look at a screen for a split second.

Not really, there just hasn't been too many well designed touch interfaces.  Properly designed it can be good (e.g. Tesla's swiping direction for drive/reverse, don't get me wrong Tesla's are probably the worst for a lot of the touch designs but at least the swiping one is a good example of it being done more right).  Honestly, if they had tactile bumps on the touch interface it likely would be a lot better.

 

The point I'm trying to make is bad physical designs exist as well (and sometimes makes it worse).  A prime example is like I mentioned, having the shifter knob the same size and shape as the volume and putting them within a short distance from each other.  I've actually seen an example of someone turning it thinking it was the volume knob...and vise-versa turning the volume trying to shift gears.

 

There's also the classical button pressed in so hard that it's now stuck being pressed down issue (had that happen on the first vehicle...super difficult changing radio stations after that).

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Not really,

Yeah, keep trying to argue against physics. Definitely wont end badly.... /s

[Invincible Sugar]

On 7/13/2022 at 3:00 PM, cmndr said:

I could see this ONLY making sense if you only have 1 month of cold where you live, otherwise up front tends to win.


For laughs, let's assume away inflation and price increases. Also assume a return of 5% from investments and the ability to sell without a loss. 

If it's $415 up front then your opportunity cost is $20.75/year.
At that rate, 2 months of use is not worth it.

----

 

If you shift assumptions around the same overall conclusion is still mostly valid, you'd need pretty extreme assumptions (0 resale value, fairly high interest rate) for it to not be. I'm kind of waiting for the functionality to be a license and to NOT be transferable. EUGH.
 

That's when you tell BMW no thanks and hotwire it yourself.

[Obioban]

I've owned over 20 BMWs, and currently still own 4. BMW has already been dead to me for the last ~10-15 years (basically everything since turbos), as they no longer make cars that are good to drive. But, even if they went back to making good cars, this would be a 100% deal breaker for me.

 

Rivian is doing the same thing. I would be buying a Rivian if they were not, but instead I will be buying a Silverado EV.

 

Rivian is also not allowing carplay, to further force people towards rivian services-- any car without carplay is a complete non starter for me.

 

Rivian has stated to investors that they expect to make an AVERAGE of $16,000 per vehicle in post sale subscription revenue. Holy shit!

[wanderingfool2]

On 7/16/2022 at 5:33 PM, jagdtigger said:

Yeah, keep trying to argue against physics. Definitely wont end badly.... /s

It has nothing to do about physics.  It's all about logical design, which I've already sort of proven that physical can be worse than touch screen...A stupidly designed physical interface can be much worse than touch interfaces.  I've already mentioned it, but tell me the below comparison, how do you justify the physical interface being better than the touch interface then?

 

Compare:

Tesla, newer models, when you are stopped, with foot on brake and you can swipe the left side down to go into reverse.  You don't have to look at the screen in order to know where to swipe, but the screen is still close enough that you could perform the task with peripheral vision when looking at the road.

 

Can't remember which make it was, I think it only lasted like a year or two before the idea was axed...but one of the models of vehicles had a puck shifter within a short reach of the volume puck knob. [There is def. instances of people who switched the gear instead of switching the volume].  The solution look down to see what you are shifting.

 

You also have the vehicles that have physical buttons located on the center console to shift gears.  So you still have to look away to interact with it

 

  

3 hours ago, Obioban said:

I've owned over 20 BMWs, and currently still own 4. BMW has already been dead to me for the last ~10-15 years (basically everything since turbos), as they no longer make cars that are good to drive. But, even if they went back to making good cars, this would be a 100% deal breaker for me.

 

Rivian is doing the same thing. I would be buying a Rivian if they were not, but instead I will be buying a Silverado EV.

 

Rivian is also not allowing carplay, to further force people towards rivian services-- any car without carplay is a complete non starter for me.

 

Rivian has stated to investors that they expect to make an AVERAGE of $16,000 per vehicle in post sale subscription revenue. Holy shit!

Rivian is a weird case...they are losing a ton of money on manufacturing of their vehicles already...so even with the $16,000 a vehicle extra they still might be coming up short.

[jagdtigger]

23 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

It has nothing to do about physics.

Its all about it.

Physical buttons and knobs: can memorize location and operate without looking down.

Touch screen regardless of design and layout: impossible to blindly operate.

[wanderingfool2]

12 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Its all about it.

Physical buttons and knobs: can memorize location and operate without looking down.

Touch screen regardless of design and layout: impossible to blindly operate.

Same muscle memory can come into play for touch interfaces, especially if it's properly paired with a tactile bump to indicate where you hand is placed.

 

I've operated a touch screen blindly plenty of times (not vehicles), but because I knew the interface and the interface was well thought out.  Actually Tesla's drive/reverse is also a perfect example of that as well.  You can blindly do that without looking if you wanted to.

 

It leads me back to my example, you can't always memorize the location of knobs when you have two very similar knobs close enough to each other that do two perfectly different things.  Like I've said, I've seen a few people who went to drive and mistook them.  There is also the passenger concern, which again I've seen where they go to turn down the volume and grab the wrong knob.

[Obioban]

Touch screens may not be impossible to blindly operate, but they are VASTLY worse for it.

[jagdtigger]

26 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Same muscle memory can come into play for touch interfaces

You cannot build muscle memory on a smooth flat surface, anyone who actually tried to use touch interface while driving knows this.

 

Button and knob design? I set anything you want without ever taking my eyes off of the road, because physical buttons make it possible to have reference points because they have a fixed place and have actual feedback when you operate them. Some even can relay the actual state by staying in the position you  set them into (light switch, high beam, windshield wiper, etc). These are the properties make it possible to build a muscle memory.

Edited July 18, 2022 by jagdtigger