AMD just proved they're not your friend

[Emily Young]

Threadripper upended the HEDT market when it released, but now it seems the more expensive Threadripper PRO is here to take over. Is AMD making a mistake, or is enthusiast HEDT simply obsolete?
 

 

[Elisis]

...People thought they were to begin with?

[emosun]

i literally just got a threadripper pro 3975wx too lol

[Nystemy]

The OEM only thing is a bit stupid to be fair...

 

Though, the main thing of high performance desktops/workstations in my own opinion is memory bandwidth. Since some applications really really depend on that. Core count sometimes almost doesn't matter. A lot of consumer platforms are just 2 memory channels, meanwhile the server space offers 4, 6, 8 and 12. And this makes a huge difference in some applications.

 

But most users don't actually do stuff where large amounts of cores or an excessive amount of RAM channels is remotely needed.

[Results45]

Are you guys gonna sub-zero chill this and run Crysis again via SwiftShader?

[poochyena]

So.. the video starts out with saying AMD is evil for doing a thing that he then explains is perfectly reasonable to do? Extreme clickbait.

[notdumbjohn]

@ https://youtu.be/h74mZp0SvyE?t=125

 

 

"now look amd is a publicly traded company and that means that they are actually legally obligated to do whatever they can to increase profits for their shareholders legally like if they didn't do it they could be sued by their shareholders "

now look, the above quote of Linus from the video is absolute nonsense that has been debunked multiple times and sounds like something some 2nd grader backs up with "no, my dad works a job and his friend told him that"

 

They are not legally obligated to do whatever they can to increase profits. That is not what fiduciary duty means.

 

Fiduciary duty is much, much broader and in general means 'don't needlessly piss away the companys money for your own personal gain"

 

article from 2015 debunking this myth (given AMD is US corp): https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-corporations-obligations-to-shareholders/corporations-dont-have-to-maximize-profits

 

article from 2014 debunking the myth: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-the-myth-of-maximizing-shareholder-value/2014/02/11/00cdfb14-9336-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

 

The rest of the western world is much the same.

 

Also, use a bit of common sense. Even in the nonsense scenario of companies 'having a legal duty to increase profits for shareholders', Imagine trying to prove(in an actual court - not twitter) that a company didn't try to increase profits. It would be the stupidest case in the entire world. 

 

 

Whoever wrote those lines in the script should do a bit more research before including a) such a misleading statement and b) an easily debunkable statement.

 

[Hybris5112]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

So.. the video starts out with saying AMD is evil for doing a thing that he then explains is perfectly reasonable to do? Extreme clickbait.

This video feels like its all over the place.

On one hand its somewhat critical of AMD which is something LTT has avoided where ever possible since at least when 1st Gen Ryzen was released.

Then they try to defend AMD (Back to normal behavior) by (poorly) citing legal duty toward making profit.

Then finally whipping around to saying that you really don't need overkill performance. Which isn't something that you bother telling audience full of enthusiasts because it doesn't matter to them if they need the extra cores/bandwidth/lanes etc... as just having a big tech hammer is often the goal all along.

 

I am not sure what exactly the point of the video is supposed to be besides Threadripper is being effectively ended in the consumer market and shifted over to the commercial/industrial market.

 

The HEDT is not dead if anything very much alive if only being ignored and mislabeled by tech outlets like LTT, Jayz, Hardware Unboxed, etc...

[Arika]

100% unsurprised.

People on this very forum have been saying since ryzen first came out "AMD would never be like intel" and every time i saw it; i would laugh.

 

and i'm still laughing.

[crazzp]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

So.. the video starts out with saying AMD is evil for doing a thing that he then explains is perfectly reasonable to do? Extreme clickbait.

What!? Linus said that AMD is increasing their prices and consumers should be upset about it. He just added the reason for AMD increasing their prices, doesnt mean he's approving the move. Are we even watching the same video? 

Honestly nowadays people just want to read/hear whatever they want to it seems. 

[notdumbjohn]

1 minute ago, crazzp said:

He just added the reason for AMD increasing their prices,

That reason is made up nonsense.

 

AMD increased their prices because they are exploiting the market for their own gain.

 

Unfortunately for AMD, they've just gone and lost all consumers who leaned towards them because they were the pro-consumer underdog.

Turns out they didn't do what Intel did re: pricing solely for the reason that they weren't able to.

 

Zero loyalty to them.

 

Also,AMD drivers suck compared to Intel. They sucked 8 years ago and they still suck today.

AMD| is just another money grab corporation.

[crazzp]

Just now, notdumbjohn said:

AMD| is just another money grab corporation

And that is what Linus has been saying all these years... That AMD will increase the price when they are on top.

the legal thingy is just Linus being Linus trying to be funny. 

[Skipple]

This video is really weird. You start by saying how AMD is not your friend and are souless... then go ahead and explain why what they are doing makes complete sense. 

 

If people bought into the threadripper product line then they would invest in product line. They haven't, and as your explained in the video, they don't really have a reason to.

 

Why should I hate AMD for not investing in a product stack that very few are purchasing?

 

[Luscious]

HEDT first came out in late 2014 with X99/DDR4 and I was eager to jump on board the platform with an 8-core. I have to say I'm still rocking that insane, over-the-top beast of a system that I built in 2015 - the 8 cores don't feel slow or inadequate at all for what I do that includes gaming, multimedia, multitasking and F@H.

 

Of course the DIY PC landscape has changed GREATLY in the last 7 years. Back when I was building mine quad GPU rigs were the absolute pinnacle of performance, and as you can guess, I went with four GTX 980TI's all overclocked and custom water cooled. The cards continue to push games admirably and are perfectly fine on games that aren't high FPS and have no problem handling them at 3440x1440 either. I won't deny that it was a sizable investment in $$$, but for me the chance to go down the DIY route (and a VERY extreme custom one at that) was an incredible experience with much enjoyment, fun, learning, and well worth it.

 

You can argue that HEDT is dead, but is it really? Are quad GPU rigs dead too just because supply is poor and nVidia stopped supporting it? Are custom builds doomed as well now that companies like Case Labs are gone and go-to enthusiast outlets like Fry's have disappeared? The fact is it would be impossible for me to build today what I did in 2015. Back then it really was the golden age of DIY PC. The landscape has changed so much in those 7 years with products disappearing, supply restricted, retailers becoming hard to find and pricing going through the roof. Even the media outlets today are a stark difference from what they were 7 years ago (Newegg TV anyone???). Go look at the handful boutique builders who would charge you an arm and a leg for a quad GPU build - they've either stopped doing it or are long gone!

 

In part that makes me incredibly sad, because I might never have the same PC building experience ever again. We have gone back to and relegated to throwing parts together off a shelf and calling it a day - no imagination, nothing special, nothing custom, nothing to really push the boundaries or go down that extreme hardware path. Those rigs you see guys like Jason, Paul, Kyle etc... building today are about as LAME as you can get with ZERO imagination or originality put into them. And while I might enjoy poking jabs at them for their lack of creativity, it's the state of the DIY PC market that's the bigger culprit here - the options and choice you had all those years ago have just evaporated.

 

Will it ever go back to what it was? I don't know. But it does worry me to think that when it comes time to replace my aging system will I be able to find parts that are equally as good. Building a balls to the wall system only to have to downgrade many years later or be forced into a pre-built does not paint a good picture for the industry or inspire confidence.

 

 

[Ultraforce]

2 hours ago, Skipple said:

This video is really weird. You start by saying how AMD is not your friend and are souless... then go ahead and explain why what they are doing makes complete sense. 

 

If people bought into the threadripper product line then they would invest in product line. They haven't, and as your explained in the video, they don't really have a reason to.

 

Why should I hate AMD for not investing in a product stack that very few are purchasing?

 

I don't think it's supposed to necessarily be that you should hate AMD at all but just a reminder that corporations including AMD, LMG, Intel, IBM, dbrand, buildredux, and Squarespace aren't your friend, never were your friend, and inherently never can be your friend. There can be times when you can mutually benefit from their services or products, but at the end of the day, the relationship between a company and a consumer is inherently incapable of being one of friendship. It is they want money, and you want something that they are to provide in return for taking your money.

[Chiyawa]

1 hour ago, Luscious said:

That was a nice case. May I know what do you use for that speedometer style monitoring system?

[AndreiArgeanu]

2 hours ago, Luscious said:

Are quad GPU rigs dead too just because supply is poor and nVidia stopped supporting it?

I think it's more of a case of games not supporting it rather than NVIDIA. Also quad or dual GPU setups don't make any sense in today's world, not only because of the bad game support but also performance in the few games that do support it plus the additional issues you have to deal with when running multiple GPU's, you're just better off picking the next best GPU then trying to do any kind of SLI. Also power consumption is a massive factor, a 3090 pulls like 500W on it's own under full load, never mind the power spikes and the largest PSU's nowadays are 1600W max, you'll need at least 2 400-600$ psu's to even consider running a quad GPU setup. It's a lot of hassle for little results.

 

2 hours ago, Luscious said:

In part that makes me incredibly sad, because I might never have the same PC building experience ever again. We have gone back to and relegated to throwing parts together off a shelf and calling it a day - no imagination, nothing special, nothing custom, nothing to really push the boundaries or go down that extreme hardware path.

It isn't that different from how it was before, I mea sure rather than installing 4 GPU's in a system you install 1 but that's about it. There's plenty of videos on "extreme" builds and you don't even have to look far back. Prime example would be this video from computex 2019.

 

2 hours ago, Luscious said:

the options and choice you had all those years ago have just evaporated.

what choices have magically dissapeared from all those years ago that actually matters I'd genuinely like to know. What are these massive differences that have magically evaproated?

[Blademaster91]

4 hours ago, notdumbjohn said:

AMD increased their prices because they are exploiting the market for their own gain.

 

Unfortunately for AMD, they've just gone and lost all consumers who leaned towards them because they were the pro-consumer underdog.

Turns out they didn't do what Intel did re: pricing solely for the reason that they weren't able to.

No, AMD increased prices because they are more competitive with Intel, their prices were low in the past because their products weren't as fast as Intel.

AMD did what any company would do when their product is good, make as much profit as they can.

5 hours ago, notdumbjohn said:

Also,AMD drivers suck compared to Intel. They sucked 8 years ago and they still suck today.

AMD| is just another money grab corporation.

Which drivers, chipset or graphics? Intel drivers are good but they do have their issues, so does Nvidia.

AMD is a corporation,  they're after your money as any company is, when the prices are lower you can benefit from it, but as a company they only care about you buying their products.

[Luscious]

2 hours ago, Chiyawa said:

That was a nice case. May I know what do you use for that speedometer style monitoring system?

That's an add-on you were able to buy for the mobo - if I remember right it was designed to work with more than one Asus board from the period. Asus Front Base was the product name. Plugged into a special connector on the mobo and gave you different readouts, audio jacks and an extra USB A. Funny enough I got it for the always on clock since it drove me mad not being able to know the time when doing full screen stuff. You can turn the display off at night too with a push of a button. I really like it and it's worked great so far.

[poochyena]

6 hours ago, Hybris5112 said:

Then finally whipping around to saying that you really don't need overkill performance.

They aren't saying that, they are more saying that ryzen is already as powerful as threadripper, so there isn't much point in it since if you need more power, you probably need an epyc chip.

 

6 hours ago, crazzp said:

What!? Linus said that AMD is increasing their prices and consumers should be upset about it. He just added the reason for AMD increasing their prices, doesnt mean he's approving the move. Are we even watching the same video? 

The video I watched had little to do about prices and entirely about threadripper going away due to the reasonable reason that the gap it filled a few years ago has narrowed too much with the increased power and core count of regular ryzen.

 

5 hours ago, Skipple said:

Why should I hate AMD for not investing in a product stack that very few are purchasing?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Elisis]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

They aren't saying that, they are more saying that ryzen is already as powerful as threadripper, so there isn't much point in it since if you need more power, you probably need an epyc chip.

 

Which is implicitly saying "fuck you" to prosumers 

[GodAtum]

I use a 390X for my home lab, what's the alternative now if I wanted to upgrade?

[poochyena]

8 hours ago, Elisis said:

Which is implicitly saying "fuck you" to prosumers 

Even Anthony said the latest ryzen is good enough, making threadripper kinda pointless.

[GDRRiley]

19 hours ago, Nystemy said:

The OEM only thing is a bit stupid to be fair...

its not OEM only.
it will be for a limited time just like last gen of threadripper pro, this time only 3 instead of 6 months.

 

 

17 hours ago, notdumbjohn said:

Also,AMD drivers suck compared to Intel. They sucked 8 years ago and they still suck today.

intel has way more GPU driver issues than AMD. that why we having seen intel GPUs yet
as for other drivers I'd rate them both about the same.

[StalePie42]

16 hours ago, Luscious said:

HEDT first came out in late 2014 with X99/DDR4 and I was eager to jump on board the platform with an 8-core. I have to say I'm still rocking that insane, over-the-top beast of a system that I built in 2015 - the 8 cores don't feel slow or inadequate at all for what I do that includes gaming, multimedia, multitasking and F@H.

 

Of course the DIY PC landscape has changed GREATLY in the last 7 years. Back when I was building mine quad GPU rigs were the absolute pinnacle of performance, and as you can guess, I went with four GTX 980TI's all overclocked and custom water cooled. The cards continue to push games admirably and are perfectly fine on games that aren't high FPS and have no problem handling them at 3440x1440 either. I won't deny that it was a sizable investment in $$$, but for me the chance to go down the DIY route (and a VERY extreme custom one at that) was an incredible experience with much enjoyment, fun, learning, and well worth it.

 

You can argue that HEDT is dead, but is it really? Are quad GPU rigs dead too just because supply is poor and nVidia stopped supporting it? Are custom builds doomed as well now that companies like Case Labs are gone and go-to enthusiast outlets like Fry's have disappeared? The fact is it would be impossible for me to build today what I did in 2015. Back then it really was the golden age of DIY PC. The landscape has changed so much in those 7 years with products disappearing, supply restricted, retailers becoming hard to find and pricing going through the roof. Even the media outlets today are a stark difference from what they were 7 years ago (Newegg TV anyone???). Go look at the handful boutique builders who would charge you an arm and a leg for a quad GPU build - they've either stopped doing it or are long gone!

 

In part that makes me incredibly sad, because I might never have the same PC building experience ever again. We have gone back to and relegated to throwing parts together off a shelf and calling it a day - no imagination, nothing special, nothing custom, nothing to really push the boundaries or go down that extreme hardware path. Those rigs you see guys like Jason, Paul, Kyle etc... building today are about as LAME as you can get with ZERO imagination or originality put into them. And while I might enjoy poking jabs at them for their lack of creativity, it's the state of the DIY PC market that's the bigger culprit here - the options and choice you had all those years ago have just evaporated.

 

Will it ever go back to what it was? I don't know. But it does worry me to think that when it comes time to replace my aging system will I be able to find parts that are equally as good. Building a balls to the wall system only to have to downgrade many years later or be forced into a pre-built does not paint a good picture for the industry or inspire confidence.

 

 

Do you by any chance have any more pictures ?