righttorepair Dell shows "proof of concept" "sustainable" laptop with greater repairability.

[FoxFire]

Summary

Dell showcases a "more sustainable" and "repairable" laptop called "Luna" to lower the carbon footprint of the devices and cut back on e-waste. The laptop includes few screws allowing the laptop to be disassembled by hand without special tools or a heat gun.

 

Quotes from the Verge

Quote

 "It’s a collection of ideas that could go a long way toward making the tech giant’s products more sustainable — depending on whether, and how, Dell decides to implement them."

 

"Other ideas in Concept Luna are more focused on the climate impact of electronics. The aluminum in the chassis is smelted using hydropower energy, replacing what is often one of the dirtiest manufacturing steps with a low-carbon alternative. The motherboard is a quarter the size of the board in the Latitude 7300 AE, and according to Dell, it could have a 50 percent smaller carbon footprint. A life cycle analysis of the Latitude 7300 AE found that manufacturing accounted for 65 percent of the device’s climate impact and printed wire boards were the most energy-intensive components to make. Considering Dell’s leading position in the global laptop market, this level of carbon cutting on an individual parts basis could translate to significant reductions across the industry."

 

 "All of these considerations hinge, of course, on the ideas in Concept Luna eventually trickling into consumer products. That won’t happen next year, Tosh said, considering that Dell still needs to take time to validate that the concepts are reliable enough for mass production. But by 2030, he would “certainly expect” many of these design concepts to be implemented."

 

My thoughts

 I'm glad that other large tech companies are being forced to think about repairability but I fear this can end up come at the cost of performance and relegate it to the low end of the market and niche portions of the community who are particular about repairability vs performance. All in all I hope it goes further than a concept piece!

I want to believe this was partially caused by Framework and that they are really making a difference.

 

 

Sources

https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22832895/dell-luna-sustainable-laptop-concept-repairability-recyclable-environment

[Forbidden Wafer]

Remember the Alienware switch? Same thing. Vaporware. 

[Jtalk4456]

5 minutes ago, FoxFire said:

but I fear this can end up come at the cost of performance and relegate it to the low end of the market and niche portions of the community who are particular about repairability vs performance.

I'm gonna first say I think this bigger companies accepting the push from consumers and hopefully gaining a bit of a conscience about taking care of the world, but also I don't see why the cost of performance makes a difference here. Smaller will by nature be less powerful than bigger and more. But I don't think we're needing to focus on the market that cares about it. While the gamer and pc enthusiast community will still need powerful desktops and laptops, the mass consumer mostly uses web browsing and lighter apps if any apps at all. What I forsee is the standard laptop and even desktop being tiny and basic to meet the needs of the mass consumer in an ecologically responsible way, and those of us who need more will get the higher up models or build, just like we currently do. This push I don't see as a replacement for the computers guys like us buy

[Quackers101]

I don't get why they got to be so feared about screws?

Like can't you get better and still service-able parts by using screws?

Just don't mix a whole bunch, with your own standard of screws holes etc.

I mean some phones are quite good with that, and quite "modular" in some parts.

[dizmo]

I was ready to say something like "oh, so they remembered how to make laptops like they did a decade or so ago?", but it's actually quite more involved than what the post leads on. 

 

The motherboard has been shrunk and placed into the lid, so there's no need for a fan; it can passively cool itself. It also maintains the same sleek aesthetic, so it doesn't look like a rough mess and follows Dell's design language. Smelting using hydro is interesting, but I wonder if that plant has the output required for full scale production. 

 

Overall, interesting. 

[poochyena]

2030? meh

[hishnash]

3 hours ago, Quackers101 said:

I don't get why they got to be so feared about screws?

Like can't you get better and still service-able parts by using screws?

Just don't mix a whole bunch, with your own standard of screws holes etc.

I mean some phones are quite good with that, and quite "modular" in some parts.

Screws are great for repairability (even if you use non standard ones) most of the reason for using non-statnads screws is to make it easier for automated construction to assemble them without damaging the screw head (Philips screws are not good for this compared to the star or octagon style bits). 

Much better to have lots of screws than to try to avoid screws by having clips (or even glue). 

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, Quackers101 said:

I don't get why they got to be so feared about screws?

Like can't you get better and still service-able parts by using screws?

Just don't mix a whole bunch, with your own standard of screws holes etc.

I mean some phones are quite good with that, and quite "modular" in some parts.

Well some things shouldn't have screws in them because of stress points, but glue was always a bad idea since glue either melts or dries out and starts separating with age.

 

Personal example, the ROG Gladius mouse I have, the rubber parts are glued to the mouse, and the glue started melting during the summer, leaving a goop trail on the desk and the bottom of my hand. At some point I peeled back the rubber and ripped the goop strip out. I don't know what they used, but there was this fabric-like adhesive that just turned into sticky slime when it got warm enough, and separated from the rubber grip.

 

What should happen to make a laptop repairable is to walk-back all the "thin and light" designs. You can have a choice between "thin, portable, poor performing" and "thicker, repairable, higher performing". 

 

Dell's Precision laptops have been a pain in the ass to repair, but the "thin" 55xx (or XPS on the consumer side) are actually somewhat repairable. The Precision 7500/7700 series however are a lot more repairable, but a pain to actually take apart because the things you need to reach are on both sides of the laptop, so replacing the keyboard or installing half the ram is extremely involved. But you can at least do it.

 

The right middle ground is to use strong magnets to hold things in precise places and only have the screws hold down at non-pressure-point positions. So things like the battery/ram/ssd compartment would have a sliding compartment cover, where the magnet holds it shut, but a single screw at one end locks that compartment from being opened unintentionally rather than several security screws.  The keyboard would be held magnetically at the corners, but one screw holding it at the connector side.

[Lightwreather]

1 hour ago, Caroline said:

>By 2030

 

Go ahead and say by 2100 if you're gonna lie anyway.

I'm fairly sure that they meant BY 2030, so they could, in theory have it before 2030, but it does give them a pretty big loophole.

[StDragon]

Nope.

[poochyena]

1 hour ago, Caroline said:

>By 2030

 

Go ahead and say by 2100 if you're gonna lie anyway.

I don't think its a lie, its just thats when it will be possible without making much sacrifice. I don't think Dell is really doing much here, so much they relying on other companies to come up with these solutions so they can use them. They are banking on costs going down by then.

[leadeater]

So essentially Dell took their design guidance and methodology from their business range of laptops and brought it to their consumer laptops and now they want a pat on the back? lol

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, dizmo said:

The motherboard has been shrunk and placed into the lid, so there's no need for a fan; it can passively cool itself.

It's not the first time Dell would have done that, they already have with their 2-in-1 detachable laptops. Main difference here is they are banking on power efficiency gains to not need a fan. Either way none of this is revolutionary and not done before, including by Dell themselves.

 

I have no idea what has internally changed within Dell but a shift back to Dell of old where the same design and care was done in both consumer and business products is a really good thing. Even if this isn't "new" returning to what once was better is good, I'll just limit my praise. 

[StDragon]

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

So essentially Dell took their design guidance and methodology from their business range of laptops and brought it to their consumer laptops and now they want a pat on the back? lol

Pretty much. Dell's nomenclature for this CSR (Customer Self-Replaceable) or CRU (Customer Replaceable Unit).

[tim0901]

1 hour ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

I'm fairly sure that they meant BY 2030, so they could, in theory have it before 2030, but it does give them a pretty big loophole.

Yeah the exact quote is

Quote

by 2030, he would “certainly expect” many of these design concepts to be implemented.

which - at least to me - suggests that 2030 would not be the original launch date, rather that several versions/revisions would have been released by then.

 

Still not going to hold my breath, but it's not like they're talking about this taking 8 years to implement. If I were to guess, I'd say closer to 3-4 years before the first concepts begin to trickle out. This won't be a dive into the deep end - any improvements will take time to materialise.

[mr moose]

I welcome any talk or moves toward more repairable products,  Just talk is still better than current companies who are moving toward less repairable.

 

 

 

[williamcll]

Want fully repairable laptop? Get a clevo. 

[Radium_Angel]

This sort of stuff used to exist, before everyone starting cloning Apple's trend of "Thinner! THINner!! THINNER!!!!!" 

[Sauron]

Call me back when they let you replace ram and storage again

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Call me back when they let you replace ram and storage again

Some of the cheaper acer's still let you do this, I bought the missus a bog stock celeron piece of shit, it was horrendous, I stuck another 8G ram and an M.2 ssd in the bastard and it flies now.   Too bad it's all plastic and needs to be nursed so it doesn't break at the hinge.

[leadeater]

45 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Want fully repairable laptop? Get a clevo. 

Not really, many laptops are ODM Clevo and they aren't actually more repairable than any other standard formfactor laptop. Main benefit is ability to get parts however depending on which exact Clevo design actually doing the repair can be more challenging than others. That's why I like HP Elitebook laptops because basically everything is field replaceable with minimal effort.

 

Like Clevo is certainly well above the bar however the bar now days is so extremely low simply being able to open it without permanent damage (even only visually) is not a given.

 

Anyone else remember when almost every laptop the bottom cover could be taken off with a slide release? I do. Anyone else remember swappable batteries? I do. Anyone remember their arms falling off because those laptops were only 20%-40% heavier than today? I do not. And an exact dimensions laptop made today would be far lighter anyway. People that specifically like ultra thin laptops deserve a slap in the face with a wet fish.

[Quackers101]

10 hours ago, Kisai said:

Well some things shouldn't have screws in them because of stress points, but glue was always a bad idea since glue either melts or dries out and starts separating with age.

 

Personal example, the ROG Gladius mouse I have, the rubber parts are glued to the mouse, and the glue started melting during the summer, leaving a goop trail on the desk and the bottom of my hand. At some point I peeled back the rubber and ripped the goop strip out. I don't know what they used, but there was this fabric-like adhesive that just turned into sticky slime when it got warm enough, and separated from the rubber grip.

that is why I hate some of the gaming stuff, expensive and expensive waste.

Some don't have screws in them... for litterally no real good reason. glue or clips compared to cheaper PC mouses that can easily be unscrewed and replaceable parts. While the expensive ones might not be, or go for unrealistic "slim" designs and proprietary stuff, which shouldn't be a selling point. Through their designs and/or through software as well.

 

[Radium_Angel]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Anyone else remember when almost every laptop the bottom cover could be taken off with a slide release? I do. Anyone else remember swappable batteries? I do. Anyone remember their arms falling off because those laptops were only 20%-40% heavier than today? I do not. And an exact dimensions laptop made today would be far lighter anyway. People that specifically like ultra thin laptops deserve a slap in the face with a wet fish.

It's form over function, gotta look the part of a high class white collar upwardly mobile CxO by carrying something that is thin. Clunky big laptops are for the nerd/lower class.

As an aside, I have a 15.6" laptop (forget the maker) with numpad, proper keyboard, 2 sdd slots, dvd drive and 4 RAM slots. Yeah it's built to take abuse, and the tradeoff is weight, but it's not like I'm moving it 8 hours a day either. Into the backpack, to the desk for the day, and back. weight is immaterial.

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Anyone else remember when almost every laptop the bottom cover could be taken off with a slide release? I do. Anyone else remember swappable batteries? I do. Anyone remember their arms falling off because those laptops were only 20%-40% heavier than today? I do not. And an exact dimensions laptop made today would be far lighter anyway. People that specifically like ultra thin laptops deserve a slap in the face with a wet fish.

Yes, and the reason that changed was "ultrabook" designs that use naked batteries. I'd actually prefer going back to the Apple design from 2006 or so where you drop the battery from the bottom of the laptop. This is also what the pre-Skylake Dell Precision laptops did. The Skylake and later models still have a solid battery, where as the Latitude batteries have the flexible "plastic sock" style batteries.

 

Now the there is a two-fold reason why things changed.

A) Airlines

https://www.icao.int/safety/DangerousGoods/Pages/Multidisciplinary.aspx

B) Shipping

https://www.bloombergquint.com/technology/loophole-in-battery-shipping-exposed-by-fedex-fire-ntsb-warns

 

Governments in 2012 said that devices with batteries larger than 100Wh are not allowed on airplanes due to the inability to extuingish them if they catch fire due to several battery (and smartphone) fires, which still kept happening (The Samsung Galaxy Note 7 recall was in 2016, the iphone was 2011)

eg: https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/25/technology/sony-says-recall-strains-battery-production.html

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2012-02-01/battery-fires-keeping-li-ion-caged

https://www.consumerreports.org/laptop-computers/faa-bans-recalled-apple-macbook-pros-from-planes-over-battery-fire-risk/ (2019)

 

Note the mention of magnesium laptops was also a concern, and those are still being made. But in 2011, Apple was using it.

 

Anything over 100Wh must go in carried on with the terminals taped over.

 

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, williamcll said:

Want fully repairable laptop? Get a clevo. 

you mean any tongfang rebranded laptop

3 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

This sort of stuff used to exist, before everyone starting cloning Apple's trend of "Thinner! THINner!! THINNER!!!!!" 

i believe sony did it first (going thinner) with it's vaio lineup back in the day