[UPDATE: Windows 10 TOO!] Microsoft forces Edge to be the only option for Windows 11 apps & widgets (Antitrust? What Antitrust?)

[RejZoR]

Just now, Mark Kaine said:

 That doesn't make them look or feel the same,  which was the claim I was disputing.  This is like saying all UE4 games look, feel and function the same... its just not what's happening. 

But it is. Every Chrome based browser you try feels not just similar but identical. And they for the most part have copy & paste settings page with few extras sprinked here and there in some. They also share all the idiocies and annoyances that Chrome brought.

[Mark Kaine]

5 hours ago, RejZoR said:

But it is. Every Chrome based browser you try feels not just similar but identical. And they for the most part have copy & paste settings page with few extras sprinked here and there in some. They also share all the idiocies and annoyances that Chrome brought.

This looks and feels the same to you? (not sure if serious...)

 

Default start pages , in case you need a refresher...

 

Yeah, totally the same.

 

Not only does edge overburden you with little stupid icons it just doesn't look the same at all, that's besides that chrome has a lot of stuff built in with their apps like translations etc, it can even translate pages in real time (if there's scrolling text for example) 

 

AND it doesn't have those obnoxious news, at least not at default-- and I've never seen any either, in edge you can turn them off but they always come back... even the customization itself is very different,  chrome overall just looks and feels more modern and accessible -- and more importantly, distinctively *different*

 

Edit: for completeness sake firefox,  which seems to be a weird mixture of edge and chrome (with incredibly obnoxious "buttons" including a threat to delete your history...lol )

 

This looks straight out of 1990...

[RejZoR]

Dude, open the settings. They are so similar you really need to check what browser are you adjusting. Also yes, they all feel exactly the same, floaty and unresponsive. Anything but fast that everyone is raving about Chrome/Chromium so much.

[Mark Kaine]

8 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Dude, open the settings. They are so similar you really need to check what browser are you adjusting. Also yes, they all feel exactly the same, floaty and unresponsive. Anything but fast that everyone is raving about Chrome/Chromium so much.

You have addressed nothing i mentioned... also chrome is faster. 

 

Also i cannot "open settings" because i don't have a working chromium edge browser,  i have the old one... but the settings are still different,  and not exactly relevant to how it looks and feels either. 

 

[tikker]

30 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

This looks and feels the same to you? (not sure if serious...)

 

 

Default start pages , in case you need a refresher...

 

 

Yeah, totally the same.

 

Not only does edge overburden you with little stupid icons it just doesn't look the same at all, that's besides that chrome has a lot of stuff built in with their apps like translations etc, it can even translate pages in real time (if there's scrolling text for example) 

 

AND it doesn't have those obnoxious news, at least not at default-- and I've never seen any either, in edge you can turn them off but they always come back... even the customization itself is very different,  chrome overall just looks and feels more modern and accessible -- and more importantly, distinctively *different*

 

Edit: for completeness sake firefox,  which seems to be a weird mixture of edge and chrome (with incredibly obnoxious "buttons" including a threat to delete your history...lol )

 

 

This looks straight out of 1990...

What versions of the browsers are those? Those look like some customised or even ancient UIs (or the normal look turned off to get the simple one?). On my PC the untrained eye would be hard pressed to see a significant difference:

 

Chrome:

Spoiler

Edge:

Spoiler

Firefox:

Spoiler

I'm on Windows 10 still, but yeah, Chrome and Edge are all but identical. Even Firefox's Proton UI now looks similar.

 

I don't mind them making Edge the default for stuff, it's actually allright nowadays, but whether it is normal browsing or built-in apps I'd still prefer the option of changing it.

[Mark Kaine]

23 minutes ago, tikker said:

What versions of the browsers are those?

The edge and chrome ones are from Google, the Firefox one even from mozilla. 

 

But tbh as said i had chromium edge in windows 11, it looked closer to what I posted (but even more overloaded) and not like what you posted  

 

 

23 minutes ago, tikker said:

don't mind them making Edge the default for stuff, it's actually allright nowadays, but whether it is normal browsing or built-in apps I'd still prefer the option of changing it.

This isnt even new, in windows 10 , with old none chromium edge, if i click on the "?" in file explorer:

 

 

Yet another ui nightmare-- even though I would actually like it if "hide feed" would stick, but it doesn't...

 

*actually,  I'm not sure if this is still the non chromium version? (I never use it anyway)  

OS build: 1809/17763

[akio123008]

13 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

  you maybe should do some research why choice of browser is important, 

ah yes, the classic "avoid the need for good arguments by telling the other person to do their own research".

 

Choice of browser is important for nitpicky people who have nothing more important to worry about.

 

 

[RockSolid1106]

22 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

*actually,  I'm not sure if this is still the non chromium version? (I never use it anyway)  

Seems like the old one. This is the current Chromium based Edge icon which I don't see on your taskbar:

 

Was how mine looked the first time I opened it:

Spoiler

Was just two clicks to get to this(The gear icon, then focused):

Spoiler

 

 

Personally, I like Edge. Have switched over to it. I love the smooth scrolling. I love how easily I can annotate PDFs, which is something I have to do quite often. Like the design(rounded corners and dark mode thing to the right clicks and all the menus:

Spoiler

Edge:

Spoiler

Chrome:

Spoiler

 

[Commodus]

15 minutes ago, akio123008 said:

ah yes, the classic "avoid the need for good arguments by telling the other person to do their own research".

 

Choice of browser is important for nitpicky people who have nothing more important to worry about.

 

 

That's dismissive, don't you think?

 

The choice of browsers is important on two fronts: Microsoft was supposed to have learned its lesson following antitrust cases, and it contradicts notions that Windows is defined by user choice. As a Mac user I can't help but smirk at the irony of it all, since Macs make it easy to change your default browser and honour that for virtually everything. Something for folks to think about before they wish Apple would disappear.

[Princess Luna]

The only reason I use Firefox is so we don't end up in a Chromium monopoly. Alas I know this is a losing battle where only the inevitable is being delayed.

[RejZoR]

36 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

The only reason I use Firefox is so we don't end up in a Chromium monopoly. Alas I know this is a losing battle where only the inevitable is being delayed.

I use Firefox because it's just superior. Maybe it doesn't have biggest score in dumb benchmarks, but it's by far the most customizable and it's actually fast on real world content, aka webpages, especially with ad blocker installed. I mean, try moving anything around in any other browser. You just can't. You can actually re-arrange GUI elements in Firefox. Plus, you can actually tweak things under the hood where in anything Chrome you're forced to use garbage low effort or limited extensions for every stupid little thing. Flags menu is nowhere near as powerful and only has some settings compared to about:config in Firefox which basically gives you full access to nearly all browser parameters. Plus I managed to make external tweaker for Firefox (Firefox Tweaker) that allows me to set stuff I care about with few clicks and I don't even have to open browser to do it, making reinstalling or fresh installing of Firefox a matter of clicks and not a chore of combing through dumb settings to set everything your way.

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, RockSolid1106 said:

Seems like the old one.

It kinda has to be... i tried it some time ago and almost every website told me "this browser is not safe update to new version..." but I don't really recall the update numbers when ms switched to chromium... i still have bad memories going from 1803 to 1809 however...

 

But, as said, I tried it in 11 and it was basically the same, i turned off news, next time I opened it news was back! That's all I need to know to not to use it i guess. That was 2 months ago, maybe they changed it again since then. 

 

1 hour ago, RockSolid1106 said:

Like the design(rounded corners and dark mode thing to the right clicks and all the menus:

I like the design,  I also like the windows 11 design,  it has a touch of modern,  but functionality wise im not convinced, it didn't seem to have anything new I'd want to use,  and some settings that I regularly use are hidden,  overall I found the handling more cumbersome than 10. Also it took me 2 years+ to make 10 look and behave so it doesn't bother me constantly,  hard to give that up... lol , maybe in 5-10 years...  

I dont even know if win 11 has this:

Spoiler

Everything easily accessible,  without all the scrolling you have to do in default start menu, plus it looks great, imo. Has even the control panel! = )

And the best part no need for "thumbnails" on the desktop... which is really 90s , but not in a good way.

(just discovered this recently,  and I'm perplexed this isnt the default setting...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AkIonSight]

7 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

 That doesn't make them look or feel the same,  which was the claim I was disputing.  This is like saying all UE4 games look, feel and function the same... its just not what's happening. 

 

 

what do you mean by that (just curious) afaik you can't deinstall it at all without 3rd party apps - or alternatively precise knowledge of how to achieve the same by yourself,  but i think both would be totally legal - you can however simply rename the exe , which only takes like 5-10 minutes without much experience and it will not function anymore***  - you could also disable updates in which case the store will semi cease to function (it will still download certain things like nvidia control panel, but no angry birds etc,  and it also won't let the user download anything by themselves) <-- thats what I did btw.

 

 

***of course this method will still require you to disable updates,  because if you don't windows will simply "fix" it with the next update at the latest = )

 

 

Well why cant it just be "uninstalled" like any regular app, and not be installed during the next update, thats not a solution, but a workaround

[Vishera]

3 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Edit: for completeness sake firefox,  which seems to be a weird mixture of edge and chrome (with incredibly obnoxious "buttons" including a threat to delete your history...lol )

 

This looks straight out of 1990...

That's a very outdated version of Firefox...

It used to look like that  but now Firefox changes the UI like socks.

 

At one point of time Firefox looked like this (And yes,That's Windows Vista,modded to run modern stuff):

 

And here how it looks now:

[Doobeedoo]

I use it as a main web browser, it's great though. Speedy and no issues.

I find it funny anything MS yet no one mentions Google literally force their software even more, just YT alone how they removed sign-out is literally worse.

[Mark Kaine]

4 minutes ago, AkIonSight said:

Well why cant it just be "uninstalled" like any regular app, and not be installed during the next update, thats not a solution, but a workaround

yeap you really should be able to deinstall it easily,  i guess they don't give you that option because it's indeed tied to some windows functions,  for example if you press help button  ("?") it opens in edge, and that can't be changed... i could swear at some point something even opened in internet explorer  (which isn't even easily visible otherwise...) which is of course also the subject of this topic  - there isn't anything illegal about this as long they aren't killing other browsers in the process (again) but maybe it should be illegal... right of user choice and privacy or whatever...

 

 

[AkIonSight]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

yeap you really should be able to deinstall it easily,  i guess they don't give you that option because it's indeed tied to some windows functions,  for example if you press help button  ("?") it opens in edge, and that can't be changed... i could swear at some point something even opened in internet explorer  (which isn't even easily visible otherwise...) which is of course also the subject of this topic  - there isn't anything illegal about this as long they aren't killing other browsers in the process (again) but maybe it should be illegal... right of user choice and privacy or whatever...

 

 

> its tied to windows functions

 

well over here in linux land, becuase nothing is made under the same roof, brandname, guy or penguin, we play by standards and strictly stick to IEEE or any other related governing body for standards, not like microsoft and for example their shitty ACPI implementation

Also, everything has modularity, that is, its not like anything is rooted so deeply in the OS that removing, or changing it will brick the os. Thats why you can just uninstall grub or something and then install another bootloader like lets say systemd-boot. everything is swappable. basically, everything is made to work with everything else. Its the opposite of monopoly

[Mark Kaine]

6 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

I use it as a main web browser, it's great though. Speedy and no issues.

I find it funny anything MS yet no one mentions Google literally force their software even more, just YT alone how they removed sign-out is literally worse.

Well, ms wishes to be like google,  so the comparison is appropriate,  the difference is google didn't have a massive lawsuit for anti competitive behavior and lost  (afaik).  But yes, i agree google is even worse in many ways. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Vishera said:

That's a very outdated version of Firefox...

It used to look like that  but now Firefox changes the UI like socks.

 

At one point of time Firefox looked like this 

 

Well, i got it from the mozilla site,  thinking they would surely have an actual picture,  seems i was wrong.

 

Still in shock about that huge "we will delete all cookies and history" button tbh lol... 

(Edge did that once, almost made me lose my mega account... and that was also when I stopped using edge)

 

18 minutes ago, Vishera said:

And yes,That's Windows Vista,modded to run modern stuff

Ahaha, nice, I wish I had that ... 

[Spindel]

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

That's dismissive, don't you think?

 

The choice of browsers is important on two fronts: Microsoft was supposed to have learned its lesson following antitrust cases, and it contradicts notions that Windows is defined by user choice. As a Mac user I can't help but smirk at the irony of it all, since Macs make it easy to change your default browser and honour that for virtually everything. Something for folks to think about before they wish Apple would disappear.

The difference is the question of why would anyone want to use anything other than Safari on a Mac?

 

Safari on Mac is the best browser 

[tikker]

3 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

just YT alone how they removed sign-out is literally worse.

They did what now? The sign-out button is still there for me.

2 hours ago, AkIonSight said:

> its tied to windows functions

 

well over here in linux land, becuase nothing is made under the same roof, brandname, guy or penguin, we play by standards and strictly stick to IEEE or any other related governing body for standards, not like microsoft and for example their shitty ACPI implementation

This behaviour is not unique to Windows. I don't know how general it is, but certain Linux DEs have browsers tied to their functionality as well and hence in those circumstances will force a browser to be installed at all times. Uninstall e.g. firefox, it'll install chromium, GNOME's browser or whichever it prefers. Honestly I agree with this policy. The average user shouldn't be able to lock themselves out of the internet by completely uninstalling every single browser.

2 hours ago, AkIonSight said:

basically, everything is made to work with everything else.

I would not go as far as to call linux that... The switch to Wayland as a default instead of Xorg, for example. Took a few versions of Fedora before everything I used actually worked properly again. That even broke drag and drop. The only difference here is that when it is Linux we say "oh but it's still in development", but when Windows changes something it's immediately pitchforks and torches (see all the complaints about the beta of Win11). Linux deserves just as much flack as Windows from time to time.

[nurax1337]

14 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Yeah, I don't think so. I'm not going to tie browser updating to trash Microsoft Store when it has its own updater and I certainly won't try to remember a commanline noodle to do it via Powershell.

Don't worry - both will just install it. The integrated updater is still used

 

further clarification: The MS Store is NOT able to update Win32 Applications!

Edited November 13, 2021 by nurax1337
further clarification

[Mark Kaine]

8 hours ago, tikker said:

They did what now? The sign-out button is still there for me.

Thats something I'm always noticing with these topics,  apparently we aren't all getting the same stuff with these huge software companies (probably also depending on region) for example I  had "not interested" and "dont recommend channel" missing for several months in yt... now i have a channel blocker because of that, and "suddenly" these features appeared again... (and yes this is one of the more outlandish examples)

 

As for a sign out button,  I never had 1, sign into Google and yt is the same button,  I can select "channels" but it's still just the same button to log in/out - that's on pc/chrome,  I dunno how it is in the mobile app, I have it,  because it cannot be uninstalled,  but I never use it - out of principle and its also worse than my browser (Samsung beta)

 

 

[RejZoR]

9 hours ago, nurax1337 said:

Don't worry - both will just install it. The integrated updater is still used

 

further clarification: The MS Store is NOT able to update Win32 Applications!

Lol? The whole point of using store is for it to auto update shit. Microsoft really has no clue what they are doing. At all.

[Mihle]

I prefer Vivaldi browser to anything else.

[Kamina]

Microsoft really wants that data money.