Angry rant: I have been studying IT to get a useless degree

[microsoftsam]

Hi,

 

I have been studying IT, which in the end will get me nowhere. Even if I finish my Associate Degree (which upon hearing of this worthless degree they will throw my resume in the bin, which I have been putting hard work into) that puts me nowhere towards getting a job without 5 years experience in that specific job role employers are asking for for entry level IT jobs. I have better luck getting a job becoming an accountant than working in IT because IT is an overcompetitive career choice. If I do a Cert IV in Accounting I will have better luck getting a job than in IT I will ever will. I can bet I would be hearing of a reply for an interview within 5 applications, but no entry level IT position – every man, woman and pet chihuahua is applying for those positions with olympic gold medals ready for the standards set. Especially for someone that just wants a job to pay the bills. Why do they lie to people that you can get a job in IT after you finish your degree? How does someone get 5 years experience in a job they haven’t done before? All jobs require experience they even ask you to have 1 years of experience being a human dish washer before you can even apply which is easily the worst job you can possibly do aside from cleaning toilets. Trust me you don’t grow up to dream of being a toilet cleaner no matter how you can justify it. 

[Biomecanoid]

17 minutes ago, microsoftsam said:

Hi,

 

I have been studying IT, which in the end will get me nowhere. Even if I finish my Associate Degree (which upon hearing of this worthless degree they will throw my resume in the bin, which I have been putting hard work into) that puts me nowhere towards getting a job without 5 years experience in that specific job role employers are asking for for entry level IT jobs. I have better luck getting a job becoming an accountant than working in IT because IT is an overcompetitive career choice. If I do a Cert IV in Accounting I will have better luck getting a job than in IT I will ever will. I can bet I would be hearing of a reply for an interview within 5 applications, but no entry level IT position – every man, woman and pet chihuahua is applying for those positions with olympic gold medals ready for the standards set. Especially for someone that just wants a job to pay the bills. Why do they lie to people that you can get a job in IT after you finish your degree? How does someone get 5 years experience in a job they haven’t done before? All jobs require experience they even ask you to have 1 years of experience being a human dish washer before you can even apply which is easily the worst job you can possibly do aside from cleaning toilets. Trust me you don’t grow up to dream of being a toilet cleaner no matter how you can justify it. 

I studied IT and i have a job that pays the bills and so can you

[dizmo]

You didn't look into market saturation for the career before you started studying? Sounds more like a personal mistake than anything. It's like my friends that became engineers, only to realize that that's what everyone else was doing, and there's not enough work for them; one took a job as a construction labourer and the other Boston Pizza. 

 

Did you specialize in anything? Blanket degrees are rarely enticing. 

[starry]

University in general is kind of useless these days, especially for how much it costs. I would only ever recommend it as an opportunity for personal enrichment if one can very reliably afford it, not as a path to a career. I tried it, I changed my degree like 4 times. Then I watched my friends graduate, they all had things in low competition fields, and their degree didnt change a damn thing about their career situation. They didnt get special treatment in job applications, it taught them very few practical skills, only the technical knowledge of their field, and they just generally had a worse time overall, being under prepared for the workforce, and now in heaps and heaps of student loan debt. After I watched that happen I cut my losses and dropped out. Luckily I was able to get my debt resolved, but it was a lot less than what my friends had. Now I do contract work for illustration and design, and Im pretty happy with it, took no formal training and Im better off than any of my friends.

[kb5zue]

Hey, why slam the pet chihuahua, he never did you any harm did he?

 

Other than that, I wish you luck.  The IT market is saturated beyond belief right now and most likely will be for a pretty good while.  I did IT stuff while in the Air Force and pretty much thought that I could walk right into a job when I retired.  Even went so far as to get a degree in IT but that still didn't help because by the time I was old enough to retire from the Air Force there were a lot of younger guys like yourself out there so I was danged if I did, and danged if I didn't.

 

You just got to keep your head up and keep trying.  It's good to know there is someone out there rooting for you and all of us here at LTT are in your corner.

[starry]

Also yeah, they lie to you, especially in high competition fields. If you realize that college wont help your career as much as they say it will and you drop out, they dont get your tuition money anymore.

[dizmo]

12 minutes ago, seapriestess said:

University in general is kind of useless these days, especially for how much it costs. I would only ever recommend it as an opportunity for personal enrichment if one can very reliably afford it, not as a path to a career. I tried it, I changed my degree like 4 times. Then I watched my friends graduate, they all had things in low competition fields, and their degree didnt change a damn thing about their career situation. They didnt get special treatment in job applications, it taught them very few practical skills, only the technical knowledge of their field, and they just generally had a worse time overall, being under prepared for the workforce, and now in heaps and heaps of student loan debt. After I watched that happen I cut my losses and dropped out. Luckily I was able to get my debt resolved, but it was a lot less than what my friends had. Now I do contract work for illustration and design, and Im pretty happy with it, took no formal training and Im better off than any of my friends.

That's not really true. Any kind of college degree is better than none. Even if it's not related to the field you're going into, or the job you're applying for. The only time this isn't true is a trade. Even then, they might hire someone with a degree, even if unrelated, over you. 

[starry]

7 hours ago, dizmo said:

That's not really true. Any kind of college degree is better than none. Even if it's not related to the field you're going into, or the job you're applying for. The only time this isn't true is a trade. Even then, they might hire someone with a degree, even if unrelated, over you. 

In my experience it is quite useless. Perhaps you have a different experience. Im happy for you if a degree helped with your work.

I am also quite salty about the university and higher education system in general, because it screwed me over too many times.

Its also weird how they will lie to potential students about what college can do for them, in order to get them to go.

 

Edit: This response was very emotional because me and people I care about have had very bad experiences that impacted our lives poorly, I have more thoroughly thought about my feelings on it, and you can scroll down and read them if you would like.

Edited August 19, 2020 by seapriestess

[Shammikit]

I guess job availability could depend on the country ur living in. And these days due to crashed economies thanks to covid, not many people are hiring so I can imagine it being very difficult to get a job. 

 

I have only been in the IT industry for a short time but from the little experience I have had in getting a job, I feel u. I myself was struggling for 1.5 years to get hired in the IT field even with a recognized degree and with a couple of professional qualifications. I had decent grades too in my uni exams and yet I couldnt find one. Some employers as u said have quoted ridiculous experience requirements for even entry level IT support jobs. I applied to both these ones and that which didnt state such requirements but I never got called back. I adjusted my CVs and cover letters about a million times and applied to around 50 jobs and I got replies for only 2 interviews. In 1 interview I failed and the other I did pass but they wanted me to sign an agreement to stay with them for 3 years and I didnt like that so I didnt take it. Eventually through family members I got an internship in an office and after 6 months that ended and with this little experience in the belt and the qualifications I still got 0 calls for the vacancies I applied. Eventually I got a call from a relative to work at their office for a decent pay and I have been sticking to it ever since. 

 

So i think the take from my story would be to associate with people and make contacts where ever u go and that would be very helpful in situations like these. im guessing if u could somehow get around 3 years experience in the field u want to work u could be smooth sailing from there on. ( I hope)

The job market is more competitive than ever now with many people unemployed so i suggest u do a lot of research and alot of discussion with people in the work places before u jump into paying money and doing studies related to it. 

 

And before anything I suggest u to decide what u actually like to do as a career. One that u would be happy to get up and go to work to. because if u select one based only on money, even if thy pay well and u hate ur job, it will feel like ur spending time in hell everytime u r at work. I know the money is important but I believe if u do something u really like u could make alot more. And another thing is due to changes in the world some jobs that pay alot more right now may not pay that well in a few years time due to various reasons.

 

  

[GDRRiley]

internships are the gateway with most computer degrees. The degree shows you can learn but the internships proves you can work.

I'm working on my IT degree from a meh California State school but my internship at a super computing lab will be the key

[porina]

48 minutes ago, dizmo said:

You didn't look into market saturation for the career before you started studying? Sounds more like a personal mistake than anything. It's like my friends that became engineers, only to realize that that's what everyone else was doing, and there's not enough work for them; one took a job as a construction labourer and the other Boston Pizza. 

I'm curious, which areas of engineering, and world region? Where I am in UJK there's no shortage of electronic engineering related jobs.

 

On the other side, there are "bad" degrees out there. A friend group took (video) game design. Only one of them has managed to find work in that area afterwards.

 

13 minutes ago, seapriestess said:

In my experience it is quite useless. Perhaps you have a different experience. Im happy for you if a degree helped with your work.

I am also quite salty about the university and higher education system in general, because it screwed me over too many times.

Its also weird how they will lie to potential students about what college can do for them, in order to get them to go.

The in electronic engineering area, a degree is often (but not always) a baseline requirement. There will be exceptions, but certainly you'd have to work harder and have more luck to move up without one.

 

I do agree the higher education system is a bit nonsensical. I'm in the UK and think the fees are high enough already, but they're nothing compared to the worst in the US. A former colleague based in the US HQ of the company was talking about the fees where his daughter went. The number I don't remember exactly, but suffice to say, even if I put all my income towards it, it wouldn't have covered it. UK pay rates will differ from US (Silicon Valley) rates, but I was on enough to attract higher rate tax so it wasn't insignificant either. UK system is now so broken they actually don't expect many people to fully pay back all loans and such, as they're written off after 30 years. That's the return on investment for you. If you take the loans, it is effectively a additional tax for 30 years as they do take a fixed portion of your income.

[starry]

Just now, porina said:

I'm curious, which areas of engineering, and world region? Where I am in UJK there's no shortage of electronic engineering related jobs.

 

On the other side, there are "bad" degrees out there. A friend group took (video) game design. Only one of them has managed to find work in that area afterwards.

 

The in electronic engineering area, a degree is often (but not always) a baseline requirement. There will be exceptions, but certainly you'd have to work harder and have more luck to move up without one.

 

I do agree the higher education system is a bit nonsensical. I'm in the UK and think the fees are high enough already, but they're nothing compared to the worst in the US. A former colleague based in the US HQ of the company was talking about the fees where his daughter went. The number I don't remember exactly, but suffice to say, even if I put all my income towards it, it wouldn't have covered it. UK pay rates will differ from US (Silicon Valley) rates, but I was on enough to attract higher rate tax so it wasn't insignificant either. UK system is now so broken they actually don't expect many people to fully pay back all loans and such, as they're written off after 30 years. That's the return on investment for you. If you take the loans, it is effectively a additional tax for 30 years as they do take a fixed portion of your income.

Yeah its not great... Loans for a lot of people are the different between higher education and none though, so sometimes there isnt much of a choice.

With prices that high I decided it wasnt worth it for me. I was In school for mechatronics, was very interested in robotics and automation, Im glad I got out, because their program was with an online professor who lived across the country, which they did not inform me of when I went for an open house, or during orientation. Thats why Im so salty about that system, and why I say they lie to students, because it happens a lot.

After that I changed my major 4 times before deciding I probably shouldnt keep going and dropped out.

[RageTester]

IT hmm, might as well try programming... Cryptocurrencies are the hot thing and don't seem to go away anywhere, and there is an online academy. Search for IvanOnTech

[homeap5]

Employers are lazy despots, who in many cases likes to have the best guy with best experience for lowest salary.

When I started years ago, I need no experience and everything I learn in workplace (except basic stuff I need to know of course).

Now you can be pretty good programmer and still don't get job, because employer wants you to have, for example, 5 years experience with modifying Presta shop functions. Come on! Want modifications? Buy them! IT guy or programmer have for sure better things to do than learn how to modify PrestaShop or Wordpress. These huge engines was created for people who wants to have e-shop (for example) without having knowledge in programming - so what is the point of learning overgrown script? That is of course an example, but in many cases employers wants experience that you can get only in workplace - unless you're really strange person and wants, for example, learning at home how to optimize huge database full of data (incluiding 3 years of data input) using every database engine available on the market and using 5 different programming languages to do the same job. And of course if you're more hardware guy than programmer, you can find job as network specialist - with the same 5 years experience. I bet that everyone have 30 computers in their home, server and at least one small rack cabinet full of managable switches (and few expensive licenses for servers software). All of that for something that every computer freak can learn in week without experience, leaded by supervisor.

 

[mr moose]

So don't start in IT, find the company you do want to work in IT for and start in their mail room or as an office assistant.  Once they get to know you and know IT is a passion and you have proven it with at least a tertiary qualification you are more likely to climb the career ladder (less sweaty interviews too).

 

Of all the guys I personally know it sysmanagment and similar roles, only one had an official education in it. The rest climbed to their positions starting at the bottom.

 

EDIT: it might interest you to know one made it to 2IC in the IT dept. at a large secondary school (2 campuses) starting out as an integration aide.

 

[Sauron]

50 minutes ago, seapriestess said:

University in general is kind of useless these days, especially for how much it costs.

HARD disagree that it's useless. In civilized countries it's not very expensive at all, in others... maybe it's time to change something rather than give up on the idea of getting degrees, don't you think?

37 minutes ago, seapriestess said:

Its also weird how they will lie to potential students about what college can do for them, in order to get them to go.

Kinda goes with the aggressive privatization of education. If you make it a business you'd better believe they'll advertise it.

[homeap5]

About that 5-years experience about specific job - it is as if you were great mechanic that can build own engine from scratch and even build your own car. You're think that you can do everything and then someone ask you "how is your experience with Mazda 626 version 2 from 1993?" "- I never drove that car", "- well, thank you, we need someone who had this experience".

[Teddy07]

I am also studying IT, computer science to be more precise. Yes, it is expensive and some classes are pointless but I still think it is worth it for me. I want to migrate and a degree is necessary for that.

Maybe I am not deep enough into my studies to understand the necessity of some classes.

[starry]

Just now, Sauron said:

HARD disagree that it's useless. In civilized countries it's not very expensive at all, in others... maybe it's time to change something rather than give up on the idea of getting degrees, don't you think?

Kinda goes with the aggressive privatization of education. If you make it a business you'd better believe they'll advertise it.

I should have specified in my origonal response that Ive found it to be useless in my experience. I am happy for people that it has benefited. I live in the US, I racked up over $100k USD in debt before I dropped out. I agree that things need to be changed about it, but I cant really do anything about it. As its cost stands where I live, I dont recommend it to anyone, because I dont feel comfortable doing so after the experience I had with it.

 

And yeah, I know that theyre a business, but I really dont think they should be, it really screws with peoples lives when you tell them to rack up 100k in debt, or else theyll never get a good job, especially when they are still barely out of highschool and dont have a lot of the same perspective and reasoning to decide for themselves that they would as an older adult.

[The_russian]

Yeah I definitely get where you are coming from. When I was in high school and still deciding what career to go with, I kept hearing that IT is always in high demand, you will get a job straight out of school. Now that I am almost done with my degree and starting to look for a job in my field, as well as hearing stories like yours, I realized how unrealistic employers are with their expectations. I remember reading a news article recently, IBM posted a job asking for 12+ years of experience in Kubernetes. The funny and sad thing is, Kubernetes is only 6 years old. I'm not sure if you have already applied for positions or not, but I took other peoples advice and applied to jobs even if I didn't have the experience that the job application asked for, and managed to get the job. I'm not saying you will get a job that is asking for 5+ experience if you don't have any, but if a job application is asking for 1-2 years, apply anyway. Show them that you are passionate and are willing to learn, and they might give you a chance. If not, try to get an internship or a job that is not necessarily your specialty, then you can prove yourself and move up in the company and get the position you want. I feel your frustration, don't give up on IT if it is what you are truly passionate about and enjoy doing. Good luck.

[Sauron]

27 minutes ago, seapriestess said:

And yeah, I know that theyre a business, but I really dont think they should be

yeah, me neither, that's what I was saying.

[LAwLz]

Always love topics like this because it's full of people saying stuff like "school is useless" just because they themselves have had a crappy experience.

 

Also love how people seem to think that "IT" is just one thing rather than the massive ocean of different jobs it really is. Saying that you studied "IT" is like saying you played "sports".

 

 

Some things to take into consideration:

1) A degree is not useless. If you think finding a job with a degree is hard, imagine trying to find one without a degree.

2) You can count education as "years of experience". Did you spend 2 years studying network related courses and find a job that says they want someone with 2 years of experience? Apply for it! What's the worst thing that can happen?

3) A degree is never something negative in the eyes of an employer. Having a degree is always better than not having it.

4) School is not for everyone. Some people are ill equipped to handle school, especially at higher levels of education where things get far more serious than the early years. I think going around talking about how bad and useless school is, is kind of like me saying guitars are horrible just because I can't learn how to play them. Not everyone can learn to play a guitar (and be happy while doing so) just like not everyone can handle a higher education level. But don't blame the tool if you fail. Accept that it might just not have been a good fit for you, since it is clearly working for other people.

 

 

 

Disclaimer: It might be easier for me to recommend school since I got it for free.

[throttlemeister]

There's never going to be a problem getting work in IT. There will ever be a problem getting work in IT thinking your degree will let you do cool stuff and get paid the big bucks. Problem is, you may have a degree when you are done but you don't know diddly squat yet. This is a problem with every field, but probably more so in IT. The degree will help in that as you accumulate knowledge by starting from the bottom and learning, that degree will help you advance a lot quicker than those who don't have it. Not that there is a glass ceiling in IT that stops people without fancy degrees advancing beyond helpdesk duties, but a degree demonstrates a capability of a certain way of thinking that will help you.

 

Just don't be afraid to start at a level that you feel is beneath your education level. That, or go into consulting and get either burned out real quick or advance real quick depending on your level of tolerance for BS.

[Zusafek]

A degree is actually worth it.  This is coming from myself, a guy who didn't go to college.  To get to the point in my life that I'm making more money, I've had to work a hell of a lot harder.  

 

As for experience, I personally require anyone applying to work for me as a truck driver be of age 25 or older, have minimum of 3 years verifiable experience, clean driving record and have to be able to lift 75 lbs.  Is this is unreasonable?  Not in my opinion.  

 

For your case you might want to consider starting from the bottom and working your way up.  It's just the way it is.  

[starry]

Its kind of irresponsible to insist that a degree is useful without being very clear what it can actually do for a person. College is fawned over so much more than what its actually worth and it messes up people's lives. I'm not saying that its completely useless and arbitrary, just that I wish people would be more honest about what higher education actually is and how it can benefit a person, instead of saying that $40-100k of debt is worth it as a blanket statement. Not saying that people on this thread are necessarily trying to do that, it just how I feel about the way degrees are thought of at the moment. I would be a lot less critical if higher education was reasonably priced in my country, and would probably get a degree myself.

 

If I were able to get it for free, I would probably recommend it.

 

(My original response was very harsh, generalizing, and emotional because I have had very bad experiences. I have thought about this more thoroughly now, and these are my more well-refined thoughts on the subject.)