Press F for Fortnite - Apple AND GOOGLE remove Fortnite from the App Store - Epic Sues Apple

[Quinnell]

1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

While this will be entertaining to follow, I don't think epic games is right. If you are using Apple's platform and services they are free to ask for whatever cut they want. No one is forcing epic to have fortnite on iOS.

Indeed.  Pretty much my thoughts.  They can still sell on Android via side loading if they don't want to follow the Play Store's policies.

[Blademaster91]

19 minutes ago, Quinnell said:

Indeed.  Pretty much my thoughts.  They can still sell on Android via side loading if they don't want to follow the Play Store's policies.

Isn't that the whole point though? Epic can sell the game outside the Play Store, not so with Apple, you're forced to use the iOS app store.

I don't like Epic for their game exclusivity and their business practices, and I don't like Apple for their business practices, they're against right to repair, device cost,and things like adding music or files is stupid unless you also own a Mac.  But, Epic winning this would be good for consumers, a 30% cut is too much IMO. 

[Quinnell]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

Isn't that the whole point though? Epic can sell the game outside the Play Store, not so with Apple, you're forced to use the iOS app store.

I don't like Epic for their game exclusivity and their business practices, and I don't like Apple for their business practices, they're against right to repair, device cost,and things like adding music or files is stupid unless you also own a Mac.  But, Epic winning this would be good for consumers, a 30% cut is too much IMO. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Apple OR Epic.  For probably the same reasons as you.  I think Apple should open up and allow things like side loading.

 

But I also don't think Epic has a leg to stand on with this lawsuit.  They're violating Apple's platform rules which have been in place for quite some time.  Anticonsumer they may be but I'm not sure Epic's suit has any grounding in legality.

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

Isn't that the whole point though? Epic can sell the game outside the Play Store, not so with Apple, you're forced to use the iOS app store.

I don't like Epic for their game exclusivity and their business practices, and I don't like Apple for their business practices, they're against right to repair, device cost,and things like adding music or files is stupid unless you also own a Mac.  But, Epic winning this would be good for consumers, a 30% cut is too much IMO. 

So by that statement then Valve should be sued because they take about that much. Get real dude. Its Apple's store, Epic is not entitled to tell Apple what Apple can do with its property. Epic has its own store, where it can dictate its own policy. If you dont like how Apple polices the App Store, then dont buy an Apple device. Same thing for any dev, if you dont like Apples policy then do develop software for Apple devices. 

[yolosnail]

59 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

But you can bypass Google's 30%, you can't get around Apple's 30% cut. That's the issue!

Well, that comment stood the test of time

[mr moose]

38 minutes ago, Quinnell said:

Indeed.  Pretty much my thoughts.  They can still sell on Android via side loading if they don't want to follow the Play Store's policies.

As far as I know you can still sell your apps through the play store and have external payments.   Which is the biggest difference between google and apple.

8 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

So by that statement then Valve should be sued because they take about that much. Get real dude. Its Apple's store, Epic is not entitled to tell Apple what Apple can do with its property. Epic has its own store, where it can dictate its own policy. If you dont like how Apple polices the App Store, then dont buy an Apple device. Same thing for any dev, if you dont like Apples policy then do develop software for Apple devices. 

Can you have external payments and subs for your software if you use valve?  because if you can then you can;t sue them for the same thing.  As I said above, so far you can sell apps through the app store on google and have external payments,  so their 30% service fee is not compulsory like it is with apple, it is only if you choose to use their payment system. 

[rogerwilco91]

4 hours ago, yolosnail said:

My thoughts

Apple really had no choice in the matter, as letting Epic get away with it would have proved they let the big guys get away with it while penalising the small guys (like Floatplane)/

My guess is this was a planned attack against Apple, with Epic now having something that they can take to court.

Surprised to see Google follow suit, I thought they'd want to be the 'good guy' in this, but clearly not.

All I will say is Google ceased to be the "good guy" when they removed the phrase "don't be evil" from their corporate Code of Conduct. So, I am not at all surprised Google has taken this stance. 

[mr moose]

15 minutes ago, rogerwilco91 said:

All I will say is Google ceased to be the "good guy" when they removed the phrase "don't be evil" from their corporate Code of Conduct. So, I am not at all surprised Google has taken this stance. 

Google was never the good guy, the whole thing was founded on data collection,  the whole concept of "do no evil" and being the "good guy" was all just marketing to hide the fact they were harvesting your data and selling it.

 

 

 

 

 

[Roswell]

4 hours ago, samcool55 said:

I. Don't. Understand. Apple. File. Management. Seriously.

I want my photos in a folder on my computer, somehow I've failed at this multiple times.

 

Makes me feel like an idiot...

Just keep them in a folder then? What’s the hang up?

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, Quinnell said:

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Apple OR Epic.  For probably the same reasons as you.  I think Apple should open up and allow things like side loading.

 

But I also don't think Epic has a leg to stand on with this lawsuit.  They're violating Apple's platform rules which have been in place for quite some time.  Anticonsumer they may be but I'm not sure Epic's suit has any grounding in legality.

I doubt Apple would open up to allow side loading, unless enough companies follow and pull their apps from the app store, although Apple would probably use the security reasoning to only allow apps and payments through their services.

But yeah Apple would probably win on this, even if their fees should be 20% at the most or maybe change the platform rules to allow external payment methods.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

All I see is a great business opportunity. You can download apps previously purchased on your iCloud so I can start selling iPhones with fortnite installed to kids on eBay for 2X the price of the phone

They did this with flappy bird but at the time it was easier to jailbreak. I still have the Flappy Bird .ipa file somewhere. 
 

For the topic:

- Epic violated the terms and conditions of the marketplace so they get their app removed. It’s simple as that.

- No use complaining that it’s Apple, when Android Play Store has the same payment setup. 
- This payment method is good for privacy. You’re only giving your details to Apple, which you already have on your account. 
- Money grab from Epic.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

As far as I know you can still sell your apps through the play store and have external payments.   Which is the biggest difference between google and apple.

Can you have external payments and subs for your software if you use valve?  because if you can then you can;t sue them for the same thing.  As I said above, so far you can sell apps through the app store on google and have external payments,  so their 30% service fee is not compulsory like it is with apple, it is only if you choose to use their payment system. 

Again Its Apples device, software and store. If you dont like their policies then dont buy/develop for their platform. Its called voting with your wallet. Its not a new concept. People have been doing it forever. Personally I like Apple policing their store, keeps the rift raft out of it for the most part. So if you want your stuff on iOS you pay the Apple Tax, just like when you buy one of their devices. 

 

Also, if you want to play Fortnite how about using a REAL system. Mobile gaming is meh. 

[yolosnail]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

Also, if you want to play Fortnite how about using a REAL system. Mobile gaming is meh. 

For a lot of people, particularly children, mobile gaming is their only option.

Not everyone can afford to buy a gaming PC, and if a mobile game gives you 90% of the fun, why wouldn't you just play it on your mobile?

Plus, you can play games on the go, I'd like to see  the look you get whenyou pull out your big, expensive gaming laptop out on the bus or train (I mean, I do that, but that's besides the point)

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, yolosnail said:

For a lot of people, particularly children, mobile gaming is their only option.

Not everyone can afford to buy a gaming PC, and if a mobile game gives you 90% of the fun, why wouldn't you just play it on your mobile?

Plus, you can play games on the go, I'd like to see  the look you get whenyou pull out your big, expensive gaming laptop out on the bus or train (I mean, I do that, but that's besides the point)

*Holds up a Nintendo Switch* 

 

My nephew plays solely on his Switch lite. 

[yolosnail]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

*Holds up a Nintendo Switch* 

 

My nephew plays solely on his Switch lite. 

Exactly, playing a game on a Nintendo Switch is mobile gaming.

Why should the fact that you're playing it on a phone instead make a difference?

 

In fact, the iPhone is more powerful than the Switch, so actually offers a 'better experience', providing you connect a controller rather than use the touch screen.

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, yolosnail said:

Exactly, playing a game on a Nintendo Switch is mobile gaming.

Why should the fact that you're playing it on a phone instead make a difference?

 

In fact, the iPhone is more powerful than the Switch, so actually offers a 'better experience', providing you connect a controller rather than use the touch screen.

The Switch is made specifically for gaming, how about that. A Switch is cheaper than an iPhone. The Switch has a bigger screen and depending on the model can connect to your TV easily with just sliding it in to a Dock. The Nintendo Pro Controller is down right one of the best controllers ever. And the other thing, Epic isn't trying to violate the TOS as Nintendo seems to be fine with how they sell vBucks. Thats the difference. 

 

Apple is a private corporation. The have the right to police their IP. They have the right to police their store. If you wanted a device that was more customizable then you should buy an Android. I kinda hope Apple just bans all of Epic's software off of their store for Epics utter waste of their time. 

[Tech_Dreamer]

Cant believe i'm saying this. I'm siding with Apple & Google on this one.

[harryk]

IANAL but given that Epic blatantly violated the App Store guidelines I foresee their suit being rejected by the court for lack of legal standing

 

On the topic of the App Store, I use it on my Macs and will purposefully seek out and purchase software on the App Store (rather than elsewhere) because of the convenience and security the platform offers. I don't mind a developer upping the price on the App Store to cover Apple's cut if they desire to. In all the App Store is so much better than the wild west that was software purchasing 10-15 years ago.

[yolosnail]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

The Switch is made specifically for gaming, how about that. A Switch is cheaper than an iPhone. The Switch has a bigger screen and depending on the model can connect to your TV easily with just sliding it in to a Dock. The Nintendo Pro Controller is down right one of the best controllers ever. And the other thing, Epic isn't trying to violate the TOS as Nintendo seems to be fine with how they sell vBucks. Thats the difference. 

 

Apple is a private corporation. The have the right to police their IP. They have the right to police their store. If you wanted a device that was more customizable then you should buy an Android. I kinda hope Apple just bans all of Epic's software off of their store for Epics utter waste of their time. 

I mean, I was just talking about the definition of mobile gaming and playing on a 'real system'.

[yolosnail]

1 minute ago, harryk said:

IANAL but given that Epic blatantly violated the App Store guidelines I foresee their suit being rejected by the court for lack of legal standing

 

On the topic of the App Store, I use it on my Macs and will purposefully seek out and purchase software on the App Store (rather than elsewhere) because of the convenience and security the platform offers. I don't mind a developer upping the price on the App Store to cover Apple's cut if they desire to. In all the App Store is so much better than the wild west that was software purchasing 10-15 years ago.

I'm the opposite, I always download the version from the dev's website rather than the App Store because I'd rather not have Apple in control. 

[Donut417]

Just now, yolosnail said:

I mean, I was just talking about the definition of mobile gaming and playing on a 'real system'.

Fact is the Switch is a hybrid system. Because technically you can dock it and play on the TV. Under wall power the switch actually have more performance. SO you really cant just call it a mobile system. Because the Switch is more than a Nintendo DS. 

[mr moose]

20 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Again Its Apples device, software and store. If you dont like their policies then dont buy/develop for their platform. Its called voting with your wallet. Its not a new concept.

Sure,  people can just use an alternative store for software on their personal iphone.   Want to make the same argument for MS and windows?  What about linux only being allowed to get software for linux if Linus approves it or gets a 30% cut?  Just because Apple make the phone doesn't mean they get to control the entire market.  This is why there are so many legal cases being brought against them.  It's not as simple as you like to make it out.

 

20 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

People have been doing it forever. Personally I like Apple policing their store, keeps the rift raft out of it for the most part. So if you want your stuff on iOS you pay the Apple Tax, just like when you buy one of their devices. 

 

Also, if you want to play Fortnite how about using a REAL system. Mobile gaming is meh. 

I don;t care what apple say they do with security and all that.  Security doesn't factor into monopolistic/anti consumer behavior.   Also telling people to use a "real machine" does not change the core issue.

 

 

[Donut417]

16 minutes ago, mr moose said:

people can just use an alternative store for software on their personal iphone.

Do people only have a choice to buy an iPhone? Last I checked there are eleventy billon companies selling Android devices. Do people have to only buy a Mac? No because Windows and Linux exist. People know what they are getting in to before making the purchase. If they are too dumb to do the research, that entirely is the person problem. People know Apple locks their stuff down. IF you dont like that policy then dont buy their products. Obviously a lot of people dont care because Apple makes a killing every year. If people didn't like it then they would buy alternative products. Further more, Im sure if Microsoft could lock Windows 10 down to the Windows store they would. But the genie is out of the bottle and they have no way to put it back in. 

 

The Apple store is like any other store. I know for a fact there have been retailers over the years who have banned different products for different reasons. I know there have been games that we never sold on Steam because of policy. This is the same thing. Apple has a policy, and if Epic wants to sell their stuff they have to follow it. 

 

16 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Security doesn't factor into monopolistic/anti consumer behavior.  

Its only a monopoly if there is no alternative. Android exists, that's the Alternative. If that wasn't the case Microsoft would have been screwed long ago, due to its marketshare. Same with Intel and Nvidia. As long as an alternative exists, there is no monopoly. Last I saw Android holds the market share on mobile. So...... 

 

So moral of the story. You dont like Apple go to Android. 

 

Just saw Google banned them as well. Who will be next? Steam? Nintendo? LOL. 

 

 

 

[williamcll]

6 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

Fortnite will just teach people how to jailbreak and sideload the app. They don't care. They'll probably make a tool for it and everything.

Yes please , more jailbreakers = more frequently updated jailbroken apps.

[Blademaster91]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

So by that statement then Valve should be sued because they take about that much. Get real dude. Its Apple's store, Epic is not entitled to tell Apple what Apple can do with its property. Epic has its own store, where it can dictate its own policy. If you dont like how Apple polices the App Store, then dont buy an Apple device. Same thing for any dev, if you dont like Apples policy then do develop software for Apple devices. 

Except there are plenty of alternative game stores on PC if I don't like Valve/Steam, I can go use EGS, GOG, Uplay, Origin, etc. Forcing devs and users into a single store platform is usually worth an anti-trust lawsuit alone, but it seems to be more complicated than that because of app sideloading and payment processing.

I vote with my wallet on my hardware, but of course it doesn't work at all because people will still buy Apple regardless of their awful store policies.