COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[TetraSky]

So... The US gov has decided to cut funding to the WHO. Right in the middle of the pandemic. Because "so much death has been caused by THEIR mistakes".

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/14/trump-calls-for-halt-to-us-funding-for-world-health-organization-amid-coronavirus-outbreak.html

 

I wonder who/what will be blamed next in all this.

 

 

Meanwhile, Quebec will let construction work restart next week, at least.

[RonnieOP]

12 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

So... The US gov has decided to cut funding to the WHO. Right in the middle of the pandemic. Because "so much death has been caused by THEIR mistakes".

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/14/trump-calls-for-halt-to-us-funding-for-world-health-organization-amid-coronavirus-outbreak.html

 

I wonder who/what will be blamed next in all this.

 

 

Meanwhile, Quebec will let construction work restart next week, at least.

I mean...we give them billions and they failed to do their job.

 

I think more nations should be questioning what they have been paying for.

[Guest]

 

edited to add:

The pot calls the kettle black

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Guest

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, RonnieOP said:

You cant beat people and then say you are trying to prevent violence. It doesnt matter if they are police or not. People will not stand for that at all. Crime is already on the rise and throw in police brutality and youd just have civilians and cops being killed left and right everyday.

...which is why it doesn’t work.  Mob rule sucks all kinds of ass

[Bombastinator]

13 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

I mean...we give them billions and they failed to do their job.

 

I think more nations should be questioning what they have been paying for.

Remember who runs the US government currently.  A creature desperately trying to avoid blame while still pushing his personal advancement.

[RonnieOP]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

Remember who runs the US government currently.  

And they have done more for us during all this then the WHO has. Dont get me wrong our government (and tbh most governments) actions could have been taken earlier. But the cat was out of the bag long before anyone would've been ok with stay at home orders. Look at the blow back when the china travel ban was announced at the end of January. 

 

I mean theres no denying that the WHO have beyond fucked up on this. I dont see anything wrong with halting funds and having an investigation. The second the WHO rep refused to answer and hung up on reporters asking about Taiwan it proved that something wrong was going on.

[PhantomJaguarr]

Planning a plan for a plan ?? Last coronavirus update Governor Newsom sounded like he was talking in circles about this.

Quote

 

He said that he expected to have a better idea of timing in about two weeks but that "the prospects of mass gatherings is negligible, at best, until we get to herd immunity and a vaccine." Large-scale events aren't "currently in the cards" for June, July or August unless something changes, he added.

Schools wouldn't be reconfigured for physical distancing until the fall, Newsom said, and even then the state is considering staggering start times for students.

 

Quote

On Monday, Newsom and the governors of Washington and Oregon announced that they'd agreed to form a "Western states pact" to coordinate their efforts to reopen.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/newsom-lays-out-framework-reopen-california-roll-back-coronavirus-restrictions-n1183836

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

And they have done more for us during all this then the WHO has. Dont get me wrong our government (and tbh most governments) actions could have been taken earlier. But the cat was out of the bag long before anyone would've been ok with stay at home orders. Look at the blow back when the china travel ban was announced at the end of January. 

 

I mean theres no denying that the WHO have beyond fucked up on this. I dont see anything wrong with halting funds and having an investigation. The second the WHO rep refused to answer and hung up on reporters asking about Taiwan it proved that something wrong was going on.

You’re speaking like stay at home orders would have even been needed if things were handled correctly.  Remember, this isn’t the first major epidemic to hit lately.  It’s the third.  The first two were actually worse.  They got handled correctly though.  Other countries take cues from the US on these matters.  We’ve got things like the CDC.  Unfortunately the CDC got politicized.

[RonnieOP]

1 minute ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

Planning a plan for a plan ?? Last coronavirus update Governor Newsom sounded like he was talking in circles about this.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/newsom-lays-out-framework-reopen-california-roll-back-coronavirus-restrictions-n1183836

They kinda are going in circles. I think they are just trying to gauge the response of people before they clarify what they actually mean.

[Rolling2405]

4 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

The second the WHO rep refused to answer and hung up on reporters asking about Taiwan it proved that something wrong was going on.

I think that was because WHO did not want to have to recognize Taiwan as an independent country from China.

[RonnieOP]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

You’re speaking like stay at home orders would have even been needed if things were handled correctly.  Remember, this isn’t the first major epidemic to hit lately.  It’s the third.  The first two were actually worse.  They got handled correctly though.

Things were handled wrong before most areas even had a chance to react tbh. There was some data to suggest that people in the US had it as far back as December. But since it was flu season they just figured they had the flu and went on with their business.

 

With the way China handled things (denying the reports, locking up doctors for spreading "rumors", lying to the WHO, The WHO believing a repeating those lies to other nations, etc). I dont think there was ever a chance that we wouldnt of had stay at home orders. Who knows how many people had it from december to march and just thought they had the flu. We will never really know when it got here, how many people have had it, etc.

[RonnieOP]

2 minutes ago, Thomas001 said:

I think that was because WHO did not want to have to recognize Taiwan as an independent country from China.

Yea which is not a good reason at all. Not to get too political but if your going to call yourself the "World" Health Organization. Then you dont let one part of the world dictate your actions. What the communist chinease party wants shouldnt be a reason that a nation is denied even observation.

 

Thats why I think somethings wrong with the WHO and should be looked at. The amount of mistakes they have been making just to stay friendly with China doesnt sit well with me. They should be unbiased in the way they handle things.

[Bombastinator]

22 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Things were handled wrong before most areas even had a chance to react tbh. There was some data to suggest that people in the US had it as far back as December. But since it was flu season they just figured they had the flu and went on with their business.

 

With the way China handled things (denying the reports, locking up doctors for spreading "rumors", lying to the WHO, The WHO believing a repeating those lies to other nations, etc). I dont think there was ever a chance that we wouldnt of had stay at home orders. Who knows how many people had it from december to march and just thought they had the flu. We will never really know when it got here, how many people have had it, etc.

“Months”. Isn’t time to react?  I personally blame all of this to some degree on the US president personally.  When he moved everyone moved.  He moved way too late though.

[RonnieOP]

26 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

“Months”. Isn’t time to react?  I personally blame all of this to some degree on the US president personally.  When he moved everyone moved.  He moved way too late though.

If he wouldve made those moves months ago nobody wouldve followed. We already saw what happened when he did the china travel ban back in january. Everyone thought he was dumb for doing it. Esp since the WHO was saying it wasnt needed. You had NY politicians going on TV telling people to keep using the subway, going out to eat, etc. This was a fail that you really cannot pin on the president. Everyone failed. Even we failed. Back in january nobody was talking about being worried about the virus. None of us. 

 

Also like i said. We dont know when it got here or how many people had it, etc. It was going on last year in China and we had people going back and fourth everyday. It was more than likely here long before the first official test result.

[mr moose]

56 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

“Months”. Isn’t time to react?  I personally blame all of this to some degree on the US president personally.  When he moved everyone moved.  He moved way too late though.

 

 

All countries had people traveling in and out of china for a good 2 months before any borders were closed.  Every country has had the same warning and information but some countries are fairing a lot better than others.  There are lots of reasons for this, but it appears that the most undisputed reason for some countries fairing much better is acting earlier with higher rates of testing and forced isolation.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

“Months”. Isn’t time to react?  I personally blame all of this to some degree on the US president personally.  When he moved everyone moved.  He moved way too late though.

I believe you're missing the period where the Media and the Political establishment were screaming "racist" as much as possible back in January.  And then February's "there's nothing to be worried about" period. While partially due to the media lacking any ability for subtlety, the reality is that the Jet Set's Christmas travels through Europe (especially Italy for Christmas) assured any country with a lot of points of entry was going to be hit. If only more people thought Germany was a better Christmas vacation destination, things would have gone a lot better. 

 

The environmental persistence of virus assured it was getting everywhere, and it's looking like even a few of the early spots hit in the States peaked a while ago. Data on this virus is going to take years to work through, because a lot of it is quite odd. 

[Bombastinator]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

 

All countries had people traveling in and out of china for a good 2 months before any borders were closed.  Every country has had the same warning and information but some countries are fairing a lot better than others.  There are lots of reasons for this, but it appears that the most undisputed reason for some countries fairing much better is acting earlier with higher rates of testing and forced isolation.

Iirc Russia shut their border in January.  They didn’t follow up with monitoring though, so now they’ve got a problem.  They didn’t for a long time though. to a lesser degree there is also preparedness.  The US was and remains short on basic necessities to do that testing and isolation.  Stuff we should have had.  Stuff that could have been gotten.  Look at the US reaction to previous epidemics. Sara, Ebola. Meaningful action was taken way earlier.  Had the US government heeded warnings coming from the scientific community and done those things other nations would have followed and there would have been less problem.  There iirc is at least one EU country that did shut down in time.  They have no problems.

[mr moose]

32 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Iirc Russia shut their border in January.  They didn’t follow up with monitoring though, so now they’ve got a problem.  They didn’t for a long time though. to a lesser degree there is also preparedness.  The US was and remains short on basic necessities to do that testing and isolation.  Stuff we should have had.  Stuff that could have been gotten.  Look at the US reaction to previous epidemics. Sara, Ebola. Meaningful action was taken way earlier.  Had the US government heeded warnings coming from the scientific community and done those things other nations would have followed and there would have been less problem.  There iirc is at least one EU country that did shut down in time.  They have no problems.

Australia setup a task force in 2016 to deal with sort of thing,  They have been stockpiling masks disinfectant, gowns, vaccines, antibiotics and common medicines.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/coronavirus-triggers-national-medical-stockpile-as-covid-19-threat-intensifies/ar-BB10wZk2

 

[TechyBen]

On 3/31/2020 at 11:12 PM, Cora_Lie said:

If you look carefully what he is wiping his shoes with, they are not "masks" but different pieces of masks not assembled.

I find it hard to believe that these are going to be assembled later to be used as masks.

 

Well there is another video in the link which seems more believable (India) and this one definitely makes me rethink the whole idea of buying anything health related to "made in India"... :-S

I don't know. There is always one idiot who will do things for a dare/bet/$5.

[TechyBen]

10 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I believe you're missing the period where the Media and the Political establishment were screaming "racist" as much as possible back in January.  And then February's "there's nothing to be worried about" period. While partially due to the media lacking any ability for subtlety, the reality is that the Jet Set's Christmas travels through Europe (especially Italy for Christmas) assured any country with a lot of points of entry was going to be hit. If only more people thought Germany was a better Christmas vacation destination, things would have gone a lot better. 

 

The environmental persistence of virus assured it was getting everywhere, and it's looking like even a few of the early spots hit in the States peaked a while ago. Data on this virus is going to take years to work through, because a lot of it is quite odd. 

No doubt there is a lot of "don't rock the boat" behind the scenes. But once legal and/or health presidents are set, companies and media do follow suit. I think that seems to have been the problem. Countries who had plans in place, were able to react quicker, and take the *necessary* steps. Others took those required steps, but after the horse had bolted (not that it could be prevented, but that it can be lessened and mitigated to some extent).

 

When I worked in banking, the company legally could not make any statement that caused panic, even if true, unless the government/regulators allowed it. So while some blame lies with the media for false statements, I don't blame them for not making presumptiouse statements on if it was going to be an epidemic or not.

 

11 hours ago, RonnieOP said:

If he wouldve made those moves months ago nobody wouldve followed. We already saw what happened when he did the china travel ban back in january. Everyone thought he was dumb for doing it. Esp since the WHO was saying it wasnt needed. You had NY politicians going on TV telling people to keep using the subway, going out to eat, etc. This was a fail that you really cannot pin on the president. Everyone failed. Even we failed. Back in january nobody was talking about being worried about the virus. None of us. 

 

Also like i said. We dont know when it got here or how many people had it, etc. It was going on last year in China and we had people going back and fourth everyday. It was more than likely here long before the first official test result.

A lot of the arguments are on how it is done, not if it is done. Travel ban? Are the arguments that there should be no travel ban, or that quarantine and testing are a better solution?

I do though agree, a lot of people seem to be arguing on Youtube and TV over stupid things. Not realising the impact and severity of the situation. Such as "There is a conspiracy to hide the deaths at care homes OMGZ riot!!!!" When the sad fact is, it takes a week or more to check who and why someone died at a care home. That those figures are not collated quick enough to track globally, and the global rate is being used to help plan the hospital load and requirements. Not to mention they also mainly want to get the hospitals prepared, so tracking those illnesses/deaths is what they do have ability over (here in the UK where the NHS is nationalised, but care homes are not).

 

But I understand. These are emotional and hard times. Just don't take it out on others. Work to upbuild and support them. Even if they are wrong. Give them time, perhaps they will see the mistakes, see clearer, and correct things.

[Master Disaster]

32 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

A lot of the arguments are on how it is done, not if it is done. Travel ban? Are the arguments that there should be no travel ban, or that quarantine and testing are a better solution?

I do though agree, a lot of people seem to be arguing on Youtube and TV over stupid things. Not realising the impact and severity of the situation. Such as "There is a conspiracy to hide the deaths at care homes OMGZ riot!!!!" When the sad fact is, it takes a week or more to check who and why someone died at a care home. That those figures are not collated quick enough to track globally, and the global rate is being used to help plan the hospital load and requirements. Not to mention they also mainly want to get the hospitals prepared, so tracking those illnesses/deaths is what they do have ability over (here in the UK where the NHS is nationalised, but care homes are not).

 

But I understand. These are emotional and hard times. Just don't take it out on others. Work to upbuild and support them. Even if they are wrong. Give them time, perhaps they will see the mistakes, see clearer, and correct things.

The evidence clearly shows travel bans don't work. Russia banned all flights in January, this slowed the spread but the end result was still the same. Trump banned most flights in February and the same thing happened in the states.

 

The WHO told Trump that a travel ban would not help, he ignored them. The WHO told EVERYONE to lock down ASAP, the places that ignored them are all pretty badly infected.

 

The way to "beat it" (and I'll get back to that term next) is to lockdown, test, trace and isolate. Stopping community transmission is FAR more important than stopping imported cases. Once its spreading in the community its already to late to try and stop it at the border.

 

As for "beating it", I believe this term is incorrect. You don't beat a Virus, you mitigate until it dies off naturally. I get that the end result is still the same but saying "we beat it" implies we did something to stop it and the only defence we have is social distancing which is a mitigation at best. We can say "we beat it" once we have effective treatments and a vaccine.

 

Lastly the MASSIVE concern for me is the second wave. Its already happening in some parts of Japan.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Lastly the MASSIVE concern for me is the second wave. Its already happening in some parts of Japan.

And in China...

[Taf the Ghost]

14 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

The evidence clearly shows travel bans don't work. Russia banned all flights in January, this slowed the spread but the end result was still the same. Trump banned most flights in February and the same thing happened in the states.

 

The WHO told Trump that a travel ban would not help, he ignored them. The WHO told EVERYONE to lock down ASAP, the places that ignored them are all pretty badly infected.

 

The way to "beat it" (and I'll get back to that term next) is to lockdown, test, trace and isolate. Stopping community transmission is FAR more important than stopping imported cases. Once its spreading in the community its already to late to try and stop it at the border.

 

As for "beating it", I believe this term is incorrect. You don't beat a Virus, you mitigate until it dies off naturally. I get that the end result is still the same but saying "we beat it" implies we did something to stop it and the only defence we have is social distancing which is a mitigation at best. We can say "we beat it" once we have effective treatments and a vaccine.

 

Lastly the MASSIVE concern for me is the second wave. Its already happening in some parts of Japan.

It's always about waiting out the mutation cycle, if you have a handle on the transmission vector. Treatment regimes are already at the "combat medicine" stage and should probably be codified either this week or next week.  It's the reason for the sudden outbreak of anti-Chloroquinine news pieces the last few days. (Chloroquinine would only be effective at the fever/non-ICU hospital admittance stage, as it works against viral load rather than cascading cytokine issues.) So that should be good for everyone when it is.

 

The lag time inherent in all stages of this virus are still the most confounding issue. Though that there are so many asymptomatic carriers might be a close second. 

[PhantomJaguarr]

Four employees of my grocery chain have died from Covid-19. I hope SD County passes the same ordinance as LA for customers to wear masks when entering the stores. Very frustrating at this point.

Edited April 15, 2020 by PhantomJaguar77

[kaiju_wars]

I probably shouldn't... but again, mainly cause of my job, I've been more focused on the local level for this pandemic than the national or even world levels.  I mean state, and more importantly, county.  

 

Apparently later today, the governor is supposed to hold a press conference on whether to reopen certain businesses or not.  I'd argue that our state's response was pretty decent, considering our predicament on needing food and other resources from out of state.  Hopefully he continues keeping these said businesses closed.