Inevitable nationwide ban on vaping

[HarryNyquist]

6 minutes ago, steelo said:

You do realize caffeine is an addictive drug that can be more harmful than nicotine, right? 

Nicotine is FAR more addictive than caffeine. Caffeine's method of consumption also does not require inhaling anything into sensitive lung tissues.

[JZStudios]

4 hours ago, Real_PhillBert said:

I'm a personal responsibility guy, if you make the choice to put harmful things in your body, YOU should have to deal with the consequences. It's really that simple. 

 

Freedom is dangerous, so don't be stupid.

Yeah, people don't end up actually doing that though. And welfare/socialized healthcare is a big thing, especially outside the US.

 

I personally also don't give much of a shit, other than people do look tools and often exhale a massive cloud in your face because "it's safe." I had a job where our break room was a large garage and 1 guy vaped, and within 5 minutes even with the door opened it looked like it was being hotboxed or on fire. I'm once again more on the lines of "I don't care, just stop being a douche with it and do it away from people who don't like it."

4 hours ago, wasab said:

Does fast food caused physical withdrawal symptoms? Silly comparison. 

You ever seen a fat guy go off McD's? John Pinette ate Subway and lost the will to live.

[circeseye]

5 minutes ago, HarryNyquist said:

Nicotine is FAR more addictive than caffeine. Caffeine's method of consumption also does not require inhaling anything into sensitive lung tissues.

here for a quick lesson
https://news.sky.com/story/nicotine-no-worse-than-cup-of-coffee-report-10349589

https://www.metdaan.com/nicotine-vs-caffeine/

[JZStudios]

14 minutes ago, steelo said:

You do realize caffeine is an addictive drug that can be more harmful than nicotine, right? 

As far as I'm aware, there's no inherent health risks with nicotine, nor caffeine. It's all the other shit packaged with it.

 

This is just the first google result from Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallysatel/2015/06/19/nicotine-can-save-lives/#2ae9ed4d6f43

[MoonSpot]

4 hours ago, Ergroilnin said:

So ban cigarettes and alcohol too. Do not cherry pick just the stuff you personally are against if you truly mean what you just wrote.

Don't forget chocolate, fast-food, ice cream and all soda pop.

 

Here the CBC has been on an idiotic tirade in regards to vaping for the last week.  Their coverage has been overwhelmingly disingenuous, agenda driven, and astonishingly devoid of facts, relevant information and/or reasonable dispassionate thinking. 

Some kids got their hands on vaping products?  Guess what;  that is already illegal and has been from almost the beginning.  So charge the people who sold nicotine/pot/ products to the kids, fine the kids parents for neglect and assign the kids to 20-40hrs community service; or any number of other punitive measures.

 

5 hours ago, wasab said:

Marijuana is different. I don't consider it to compete with cigarettes in the same manner that vaping does. People smoke weed regardless if it is illegal or not already. Legalizing it at least allow govt to regulate to some extent.

Wow.  I don't even know what to say to such complete and utter bullshit so hypocritically provided.

 

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

As it is, I never quite get the logic of embracing vaping because it's less dangerous than conventional cigarettes.  Hey, this thing is still full of harmful chemicals and shouldn't be used by anyone, but it's fine because it probably won't kill you quite so quickly!

You are lucky to not have had anyone in your life that you care about who was a smoker.  Must be nice to not watch people in your life repeatedly try to quit, repeatedly fail to do so and continue to die, fairly slowly, suffering more and more all along the way, and be able to cast such tripe from atop your lofty mountain top.  Ask those whom have lost their parents to tobacco how useless having their parents around longer and healthier might have been.  When longer might mean decades and healthier might mean actually being able to function, I think you may be taking the middle ground too lightly in favour of an extremist all-or-nothing position.

[steelo]

15 minutes ago, circeseye said:

here for a quick lesson
https://news.sky.com/story/nicotine-no-worse-than-cup-of-coffee-report-10349589

https://www.metdaan.com/nicotine-vs-caffeine/

Thank you, I know I read that caffeine was about as bad as nicotine but couldn't recall the source...

[steelo]

31 minutes ago, HarryNyquist said:

Nicotine is FAR more addictive than caffeine. Caffeine's method of consumption also does not require inhaling anything into sensitive lung tissues.

That is flat out wrong. I would ask that you provide sources for that.

 

Also, many soft drinks (which often contain caffeine) are so acidic, they will eat through metal. Imagine what it does to a human stomach.

[lukasprime]

as others have said before me the issue isnt really vape itself it was laced carts and naturally media latched onto that and made it into a huge ordeal

 

frankly i kinda hope it gets one of my buddies to vape less and kick his nicotine addiction that he got from it

[steelo]

1 minute ago, lukasprime said:

as others have said before me the issue isnt really vape itself it was laced carts and naturally media latched onto that and made it into a huge ordeal

 

frankly i kinda hope it gets one of my buddies to vape less and kick his nicotine addiction that he got from it

Ideally, this ban will help people to end their nicotine addiction. However, in the real world it just means they are going to pick up smoking cigarettes again.

[lukasprime]

1 minute ago, steelo said:

Ideally, this ban will help people to end their nicotine addiction. However, in the real world it just means they are going to pick up smoking cigarettes again.

see this is where im hopeful because he absolutely hates the smell of cigarettes

 

but to play devils advocate it could result in him going to something else which is worse for him to get his buzz...

[MoonSpot]

2 minutes ago, steelo said:

That is flat out wrong. I would ask that you provide sources for that.

 

Also, soft drinks (which often contain caffeine) are so acidic, studies have shown it to burn through metal. 

Pretty sure they're flat-out correct actually.  Nicotine is far more addictive than caffeine.

neither are safe, or good beyond minuscule amounts and in particular instances.

[steelo]

4 minutes ago, lukasprime said:

see this is where im hopeful because he absolutely hates the smell of cigarettes

 

but to play devils advocate it could result in him going to something else which is worse for him to get his buzz...

I wish him the best, I truly do...However, my inclinations tell me many vapers today will be smokers tomorrow. I hope he isn't one of them.

 

The tobacco industry must be foaming from their mouths right now.

[steelo]

3 minutes ago, MoonSpot said:

Pretty sure they're flat-out correct actually.  Nicotine is far more addictive than caffeine.

neither are safe, or good beyond minuscule amounts and in particular instances.

Nobody is saying either is 100% healthy.

 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/nicotine-no-worse-than-cup-of-coffee-report-10349589

[lukasprime]

2 minutes ago, steelo said:

I wish him the best, I truly do...However, my inclinations tell me many vapers today will be smokers tomorrow.

one can only hope not, neither thing is that great for your body

 

though then again, a lot of the things we do now arent very good for us, caffeine is a great example of that

[steelo]

8 minutes ago, lukasprime said:

one can only hope not, neither thing is that great for your body

 

though then again, a lot of the things we do now arent very good for us, caffeine is a great example of that

I think I mentioned earlier that the new laws in Michigan state that one can receive up to 6 mos in prison if they're caught vaping flavored e-juices. This is just crazy.

 

 The way politicians are blindly passing these laws as a knee-jerk reaction is alarming, to say the least.

 

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigans-flavored-vaping-ban-in-effect-here-are-the-rules

[lukasprime]

Just now, steelo said:

I think I mentioned earlier that the new laws in Michigan state that one can receive up to 6 mos in prison if they're caught vaping flavored e-juices. This is just crazy.

yeah that is insanely excessive, that seems more like the kind of punishment you'd get for smoking marijuana in public (though i think michigan is slowly legalizing that if memory serves)

[steelo]

5 minutes ago, lukasprime said:

yeah that is insanely excessive, that seems more like the kind of punishment you'd get for smoking marijuana in public (though i think michigan is slowly legalizing that if memory serves)

I am pretty sure marijuana is legal in Michigan right now. Basically, politicians figured out how to tax it so it's all okay...

 

This is why many Americans are against stricter gun-laws. If you give law makers an inch, they will take a mile until our freedoms are completely gone.

[Donut417]

6 hours ago, steelo said:

completely insane?

I don’t find it insane.

 

The fact is e-cigarettes where getting in to the wrong hands. Also people who vape tend to be douchey when they vape. They can’t comprehend that they have to follow the same laws that govern smokers. Such as the public smoking  ban in Michigan. They vape in places that they shouldn’t. Sorry but I don’t want to second hand vape. 

[lukasprime]

4 minutes ago, steelo said:

I am pretty sure marijuana is legal in Michigan right now. Basically, politicians figured out how to tax it so it's all okay...

ah of course. tax the marijuana and pocket the money because you know fully well that its not going into fixing their infamous roads.

[steelo]

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

I don’t find it insane.

 

The fact is e-cigarettes where getting in to the wrong hands. Also people who vape tend to be douchey when they vape. They can’t comprehend that they have to follow the same laws that govern smokers. Such as the public smoking  ban in Michigan. They vape in places that they shouldn’t. Sorry but I don’t want to second hand vape. 

Regardless of how 'douchey' you feel vapers are in general, passing a law that imprisons a person for 6 months for vaping flavored e-juice is a bit excessive, don't you think?

 

"So, why are you in here?"

"I was caught vaping flavored juice"

[MoonSpot]

21 minutes ago, steelo said:

Please see the source posted earlier.

You think skynews is a source?  Source for manipulative bs maybe.

 

Quote

CONCLUSION:

Dependence to traditional cigarettes and snus seem to be relatively similar while NR was rated lower and coffee lowest. Since the prevalence of caffeine use in all forms is so much more prevalent than nicotine there might be more persons in the society heavily dependent on caffeine.

IMPLICATION:

Tobacco products are likely more dependence forming than NR products and coffee although there might be more people dependent on caffeine. The addiction to coffee or caffeine is seldom discussed in the society probably because of the little or no harm it causes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30061507

 

I get the impression that we're talking from 2 different perspectives.  I am assuming people getting nicotine from the places the always have been (cigarettes/vaps) and not some pure distilled lab injection.  Nor will I bother entertaining such fanciful academic flip-floppery.  Smoking is more addictive than coffee, and its always been.

[steelo]

Just now, MoonSpot said:

You think skynews is a source?  Source for manipulative bs maybe.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30061507

 

3 minutes ago, MoonSpot said:

You think skynews is a source?  Source for manipulative bs maybe.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30061507

"Some studies show nicotine, like caffeine, can even have positive effects. It's a stimulant, which raises the heart rate and increases the speed of sensory information processing, easing tension and sharpening the mind."

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-nicotine-all-bad/

[TheMcSame]

19 minutes ago, steelo said:

Also, many soft drinks (which often contain caffeine) are so acidic, they will eat through metal. Imagine what it does to a human stomach.

Gastric acid sits at around PH 1.5-3.5 while many sodas sit at around PH 3, with particularly acidic ones like Coke and Pepsi sitting at around PH 2.5. Many root beers sit at about PH 4+ So, rather hilariously, when you drink a soda, unless you're drinking one that's particularly acidic, there's a good chance you're actually making your stomach less acidic.

 

It should also be pointed out that the acid in your stomach is a mix of sodium and potassium salts, as well as the all important hydrochloric acid, which is a strong acid in it's own right that's also capable of eating through metal. 

1 minute ago, steelo said:

 

"Some studies show nicotine, like caffeine, can even have positive effects. It's a stimulant, which raises the heart rate and increases the speed of sensory information processing, easing tension and sharpening the mind."

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-nicotine-all-bad/

Can deffo vouch for this. Nicotine could wake me from my grave.

[flibberdipper]

4 minutes ago, TheMcSame said:

Gastric acid sits at around PH 1.5-3.5 while many sodas sit at around PH 3, with particularly acidic ones like Coke and Pepsi sitting at around PH 2.5. Many root beers sit at about PH 4+ So, rather hilariously, when you drink a soda, unless you're drinking one that's particularly acidic, there's a good chance you're actually making your stomach less acidic.

 

It should also be pointed out that the acid in your stomach is a mix of sodium and potassium salts, as well as the all important hydrochloric acid, which is a strong acid in it's own right that's also capable of eating through metal.

That is actually kind of fascinating to me. Never really realized where pop sat on an acidity scale since it never got covered in school for me.

[steelo]

20 minutes ago, TheMcSame said:

So, rather hilariously, when you drink a soda, unless you're drinking one that's particularly acidic, there's a good chance you're actually making your stomach less acidic.

Caffeine commonly found in soda actually increases stomach acid production, so that's not entirely accurate.

 

https://www.uhs.umich.edu/caffeine