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Inevitable nationwide ban on vaping

Message added by Crunchy Dragon

Keep this thread civil or it will be locked.

 

Keep the Community Standards in mind.

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, far from it.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

See that part about promoting general Welfare. Considering the lung disease issue.  The Government has the right. But I would be willing to put it up to a vote. Michigan does allow the citizen to vote on changes to the state constitution and this could be put on the ballot. 

8 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Then don't go to the same places.

The law is on my side: 

 

Smoking will be prohibited in all public places and indoor workplaces including restaurants, hotels and bars under the Michigan Smoking Ban. Under the law, the “workplace” is defined as any place that serves food or drink and has at least one employee.

Was there dairy in that? ***30 min later**** Yep..... You might want to let it air out for a bit.....😂😂😂😂😂😂

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5 hours ago, steelo said:

Caffeine commonly found in soda actually increases stomach acid production, so that's not entirely accurate.

 

https://www.uhs.umich.edu/caffeine

Not only that Caffeine makes you poop. 

Was there dairy in that? ***30 min later**** Yep..... You might want to let it air out for a bit.....😂😂😂😂😂😂

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Just now, Donut417 said:

See that part about promoting general Welfare. Considering the lung disease issue.  The Government has the right.

No, they don't. For two reasons:

  1. It contradicts the clause that comes right after it.
  2. Promoting the general welfare does not mean taking draconian measures in attempt to try to insure physical health. It means not inhibiting the efforts of the citizens to improve their own lives and their communities as they see fit. It means providing legal recourse and punishment for those that actively harm their neighbors, that's not something smokers and vapers are doing.

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Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

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55 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

So even 8 deaths is really concerning. If it turns out it was only bad batches that were maybe tainted or something? Good. But if there's a risk that vaping actually can kill you - that's something we need to research and confirm.

Actually I remember reading that it was a high THC variant that was sold on the black market.

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1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

efforts of the citizens to improve their own lives

But your just slowly killing yourself and all of those around you.

5 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

t contradicts the clause that comes right after it.

Not if these products are putting people in the hospital. If they are actually causing lung disease and or cancers. Then they can and will be regulated. It just like Roundup Weed killer. It was found to be dangerous, so now the company has to pay billions and pull the fucker off the market. So if vapes are found to be dangerous, then they to will be pulled off the market. Because at one time people thought Roundup was safe. Same thing can be said about vaping, IS IT SAFE? Unless some one here has a PhD and has done the research, none of us can say. Thats for the CDC and FDA to figure out. 

 

Again as far as vaping is concerned. Id be cool if the citizens of Michigan wanted to vote on it. But this is real something that should be on a ballot or go thru a state legislature. Because as it stands, vapes contain nicotine which is a very addictive drug, and drugs should be regulated. 

 

Also i was under the impression Vaping came out as a way to stop smoking? So why in the FUCK do you even need flavors? Your suppose to use a vape for a short time and quit. 

Was there dairy in that? ***30 min later**** Yep..... You might want to let it air out for a bit.....😂😂😂😂😂😂

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Just now, Donut417 said:

But your just slowly killing yourself

That's none of your business.

 

Just now, Donut417 said:

all of those around you.

In enclosed spaces, they can choose not to be around me. In large, public spaces, the smoke dissipates making it a nonissue.

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

It was found to be dangerous, so now the company has to pay billions and pull the fucker off the market.

It was found to be dangerous AND the company lied about it.

That's the same thing that caused this scenario. A company LIED about the safety of their product.

 

There are hundreds of thousands of dangerous products that are on the market, that disclose that they're dangerous, vaping gear included.

But, by your logic, let's also ban bleach, toothpaste, gasoline, potatoes, candles, cars, so on and so forth. Those things are incredibly dangerous.

 

The only regulation actually needed are some basic manufacturing regulations.

6 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Also i was under the impression Vaping came out as a way to stop smoking?

Some versions did. That's not the sole reason it came out.

7 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

So why in the FUCK do you even need flavors?

Why do you need to post on a forum?

Why do you need to waste money on Floatplane?

 

Need is absolutely irrelevant. These people WANT a product, can pay for said product, and the use of said product does not inherently cause the user to become outwardly violent. So, they're free to enjoy that product. That's how the US market is supposed to work. It's a crucial aspect of liberty.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

That's none of your business.

How about i get your love ones and children addicted to cocaine and then tell you it is none of business when you try to intervene? 

Sudo make me a sandwich 

 

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2 hours ago, Drak3 said:

 

 

Need is absolutely irrelevant. These people WANT a product, can pay for said product, and the use of said product does not inherently cause the user to become outwardly violent. So, they're free to enjoy that product. That's how the US market is supposed to work. It's a crucial aspect of liberty.

no, liberty is limited freedom under the rule of the law and considers the wellbeing of the whole, without infringement upon the liberties of others. Setting a law to safeguard public welfare DOES NOT violate your liberties. Freedom simply doesn't exist in a civilized society where there is law and order and there is a need to place public good above individual desires. 

Sudo make me a sandwich 

 

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12 minutes ago, wasab said:

How about i get your love ones and children addicted to cocaine and then tell you it is none of business when you try to intervene? 

You're actively harming others. And intervention would be just shooting you.

 

6 minutes ago, wasab said:

iberty is limited freedom under the rule of the law and considers the wellbeing of the whole

That is amongst the most idiotic things I've ever read.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberty

The closest match to your asinine definition is 2b, which is not the definition that fits the context of this discussion.

10 minutes ago, wasab said:

Setting a law to safeguard public welfare DOES NOT violate your liberties.

  1. You're not safeguarding public welfare. Nor is it your duty to protect people from themselves.
  2. Yes, it does violate the liberties of the people.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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2 hours ago, Drak3 said:

That's none of your business.

I'm sorry but you "slowly killing yourself" is definitely the business of the public because I'm pretty sure you have health insurance of one kind or another. This means that all of that time spent "slowly killing yourself" will eventually lead to expensive surgeries, hospitalizations, or medications that will put a drain on the system which causes OUR insurance premiums to rise overall as a whole. None of the choices you make happen in a vacuum. The economic burden of healthcare on the population from these so called personal choices alone is enough reason to ban all tobacco and alcohol products in my opinion.

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Just now, imreloadin said:

I'm pretty sure you have health insurance of one kind or another.

Wrong. Thanks to ACA, I can't afford insurance.

 

1 minute ago, imreloadin said:

This means that all of that time spent "slowly killing yourself" will eventually lead to expensive surgeries, hospitalizations, or medications that will put a drain on the system which causes OUR insurance premiums to rise overall as a whole.

It only works that way if your population's death rate is outpacing the birthrate. Otherwise, ignoring inflation and government regulation, the cost would change very little as the profits go up.


It would also seem you're not familiar with Sin Taxes, particularly on tobacco and alcohol. Those are (excessively) high taxes on those products to combat the nonexistant problems you claim.

8 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

The economic burden of healthcare on the population from these so called personal choices alone is enough reason to ban all tobacco and alcohol products in my opinion.

No economic burden.

Yes, it is my choice, that realistically affects only me and the people around me that make the personal choice to be around me.

 

 

I personally don't smoke, but I'm not going to dictate to other people that they can't. It's their right, they're not doing harm to other people, no matter how many times you lie and say they do.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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How about just stop smoking cancer sticks and poisonous vapor juice, and put big tobacco out of business. 

Seriously, if smoking and vaping were banned I would not shed a single tear. It's harmful to both people and the environment

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I would be more than happy if they banned it all in public places, there is nothing more disgusting than having that shit in your face when you are trying to awalk down the street.   As far as I am concerned there is little difference between me choking on exhaled cancerous smoke/gas/whatever and me just having a piss in your drink.  The substance came from in my body just like your used smoke came from yours. 

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I would be more than happy if they banned it all in public places, there is nothing more disgusting than having that shit in your face when you are trying to awalk down the street.   As far as I am concerned there is little difference between me choking on exhaled cancerous smoke/gas/whatever and me just having a piss in your drink.  The substance came from in my body just like your used smoke came from yours. 

Even worse when I learned the smoke is optional (an added ingredient). So those with more smoke, in public, are like, literally trolling IRL. LOL.

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1 minute ago, TechyBen said:

Even worse when I learned the smoke is optional (an added ingredient). So those with more smoke, in public, are like, literally trolling IRL. LOL.

I have a special word for people like that:

 

Spoiler

CUNTS

 

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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7 hours ago, circeseye said:

wow at least Australia is actually putting the correct news unlike usa news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=218&v=M-h5Hf4y6f8

 

Colin explains on the Channel 9 Today Show that the outbreak of respiratory disease in the US has nothing to do with vaping nicotine to quit smoking. It is due to contaminants in black market THC (cannabis) oils.

 

Thank you!

 

Yes, the U.S. mainstream media has become an absolute disgrace.

 

I don't know which is worse, a state run media or a media run state.

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5 hours ago, mr moose said:

I would be more than happy if they banned it all in public places, there is nothing more disgusting than having that shit in your face when you are trying to awalk down the street.   As far as I am concerned there is little difference between me choking on exhaled cancerous smoke/gas/whatever and me just having a piss in your drink.  The substance came from in my body just like your used smoke came from yours. 

Then I suggest you never step foot outside of your house. I hate to break it to you, but airborne contaminants are everywhere. 

 

I do agree though, people should have enough common decency not to blow smoke in your face. I am extremely self-conscious when I vape outside as to not blow clouds where people are walking. I'm usually at least 30 feet away from everyone.

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12 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Not only that Caffeine makes you poop. 

Yes...yes it does. LOL

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13 hours ago, Drak3 said:

No, it isn't. The """Children""" is a convenient excuse for the government to infringe upon the freedoms of citizens.

The last I checked, it wasn't legal for children under 18 to vape.

 

Why are we not holding the parents responsible for their kids getting a hold of their vaping devices, rather than punish everyone else? I grow so tired of this "for the children..." argument

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On 9/19/2019 at 1:51 PM, steelo said:

Hi everyone,

 

I picked up vaping about 2 years ago after getting tired of smoking a pack a day. I fully understand it is not 100% healthy, but European studies show it is 95% 'cleaner' than cigarettes. This is all well-documented, in fact I've also read that the UK has vape shops set up inside of medical facilities. Maybe somebody can verify this? Anyways, I can honestly say that I feel much better after quitting cigarettes and picking up vaping, especially in the morning and no longer hack up a lung when I wake up.

 

 Recently, Michigan and NY have banned flavored e-cigarettes and a person can serve up to 6 months in prison if they are caught with flavored vapor juice. Politicians say it is to protect the children. I honestly believe there is a lot of shady, underhanded dealings going on resulting in knee-jerk reactions. Juul cigarettes got the ball rolling when they realized that they could not compete with companies offering flavored vaping products. However, this seemed to back-fire on them as their product is now under heavy fire after kids got a hold of tainted e-juice. American cigarette manufacturers have been losing business for years now and still owe the government billions of dollars. They know that if vaping is completely banned, many will simply switch back to cigarettes. I have no doubt this excites our politicans as they know they'll finally get their blood-money.

 

Does anyone else find what is happening here in the U.S. to be completely insane?

 

https://tobacco.ucsf.edu/european-public-health-association-releases-comprehensive-date-summary-science-e-cigs

if they just do what my country does and check for legitimate ID before handing over the products; children are protected.

sounds like the tobacco industry really wants to try and ban alternatives to their products instead of going into that market.

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3 minutes ago, Sylvie said:

if they just do what my country does and check for legitimate ID before handing over the products; children are protected.

sounds like the tobacco industry really wants to try and ban alternatives to their products instead of going into that market.

That makes too much sense.

 

To be honest, the place where I purchase my vaping products always does ask for an ID. I believe it is required by law to purchase nicotine products...Unfortunately, not every establishment follows the law.

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Just now, steelo said:

That makes too much sense.

 

To be honest, the place where I purchase my vaping products always does ask for an ID. I believe it is required by law to purchase nicotine products...Unfortunately, not every establishment follows the law.

they lose their licence in this country if they're caught not following the law. i'm 26 and i still get asked for ID.

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3 minutes ago, Sylvie said:

they lose their licence in this country if they're caught not following the law. i'm 26 and i still get asked for ID.

That's how it SHOULD work here. I think they just receive a fine though...

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