Re: Let's talk about our big mistake... - AMD Ryzen 2nd vs 3rd Gen - LTT, can you stop flip flopping please?

[Arika]

"People that don't agree with me are ignorant and trolls."

 

Whats the answer you're looking for? We'll agree with you just to have this thread finalised and fade away into obscurity. 

 

Seriously, I don't know what it is you're trying to get out of this thread anymore. 

[mr moose]

One of the hardest lessons in life is learning that we might be wrong when we are convinced we are right on a passionate topic.

 

Doing that in public is even harder.  Don't stress the small stuff, let the thread go and ponder the better things in life.

[buffinmuffin]

Ryzen CPU's = Good Performance

Intel CPU's = Good Performance

Shouldn't everyone just be happy regardless since competition is good for prices and innovation?

[BlueGoliath]

4 minutes ago, buffinmuffin said:

Ryzen CPU's = Good Performance

Intel CPU's = Good Performance

Shouldn't everyone just be happy regardless since competition is good for prices and innovation?

 

Generalizations like that are bad.

 

Considering the 1800x is AMD's top of the line first generation CPU is so gimped by memory latency the performance, such as in GTA 5, is pretty terrible to the point where no single core is being fully utilized.

 

Likewise Intel CPUs aren't that great for software compiling unless you buy into their workstation/server CPUs which aren't meant for gaming.

 

Third generation Ryzen seems to be the best of both worlds if the benchmarks are to be believed. 

 

But I digress, the whole point is that LTT never said in either their first or second generation Ryzen CPU reviews that Ryzen was "top-tier" performance but now all of a sudden they are? It's like they are trying to rewrite history or something...

 

And then there is the clickbait....

[buffinmuffin]

8 minutes ago, BlueGoliath said:

Generalizations like that are bad.

No. they actually aren't. They both offer very good general performance. My point still stands.

 

10 minutes ago, BlueGoliath said:

Considering the 1800x is AMD's top of the line first generation CPU is so gimped by memory latency the performance, such as in GTA 5, is pretty terrible to the point where no single core is being fully utilized.

Misinformed statements, like this, are bad.

[BlueGoliath]

1 minute ago, buffinmuffin said:

No. they actually aren't. They both offer very good general performance. My point still stands.

 

Misinformed statements, like this, are bad.

 

So your saying a first generation i3 processor offers good performance for gaming today? Of course not. Details matter, you can't make generalized statements on something like this.

 

And I can take a screenshot in GTA 5 with MSI afterburner overlay on. Not a single CPU core is being maxed nor is the GPU maxed on max setting with no advanced settings and no AA. Or are we going to go through the "it's your hardware!" crap again?

[buffinmuffin]

1 minute ago, BlueGoliath said:

 

So your saying a first generation i3 processor offers good performance for gaming today? Of course not. Details matter, you can't make generalized statements on something like this.

 

And I can take a screenshot in GTA 5 with MSI afterburner overlay on. Not a single CPU core is being maxed nor is the GPU maxed on max setting with no advanced settings and no AA. Or are we going to go through the "it's your hardware!" crap again?

Pretty sure most people could use the context clues to see that I wasn't talking about a first gen i3 and was instead referring to current modern offerings in both product lines. Good luck with running GTA V bud, bye.

[The_Prycer]

21 minutes ago, BlueGoliath said:

 

 

And then there is the clickbait....

Unfortunately we live in a clickbait world. We've got the entire recorded history of humanity at our fingertips, we can view any amount of entertainment whenever we want so content creators have to try to get those clicks in order to get the ad revenue to stay afloat before we get bored and move on to something else.

 

We, as both a culture and a species, are suffering from an overload of content and information in our daily lives and the clickbait titles/gaping mouth screenshots are what currently works as the best business model. 

 

I don't like it, but I acknowledge that it works. I would love for LTT to have serious video thumbnails with direct titles, but unfortunately that's not what pays the bills and puts his kids through college.

[DarkSwordsman]

First of all, where did they say "top-tier performance"? You didn't provide a source for that.

 

Secondly, the 1000 and 2000 series were not as powerful as this recent 3000 series. And as news just released today, the 3000 series should be seeing a little bit of a boost, especially for overclockers, with a new BIOS update.

 

Lastly, why would you say that their CS:GO tests aren't indicative of real-world performance, and that it shouldn't be used as a benchmark? If anything, it's the closest to real-world performance. The default frame cap of CS:GO is 300 fps, and many players may not even know how to open the console to change that. If they spent even one full match in game, they will have a good average to work with. 

 

To me, it seems like you're just whining, but because you wrote a really long post with some quotes, it is getting attention. I couldn't follow your argument at all, and it felt like a really silly rant. If anything, we all know we should take benchmarks with a few grains of salt. 5-15 FPS in CS:GO won't matter because there are so many factors at play such as ambient temp, how old the hardware is, what hardware, silicon lottery, etc. 

 

I don't even understand the point of your post. This "flip-flopping" I think has to do with Ryzen's first and second gen really drastically improving AMD's look to the community. This caused AMD to be shown off as a powerhouse, but still not as great as Intel. Then the 3000 series neck and neck, nearly blowing Intel out of the water? Of course it's gonna sound flip flopped if you don't pay attention for more than 10 seconds.

 

Idk, now I'm ranting. I totally don't get the point of your post as it's literally just you whining about nothing yet it's getting a lot of attention.

[BlueGoliath]

3 minutes ago, The_Prycer said:

I don't like it, but I acknowledge that it works. I would love for LTT to have serious video thumbnails with direct titles, but unfortunately that's not what pays the bills and puts his kids through college.

 

Agreed. IMO It would be nice if things went back to just Linus and Luke... not that I don't like the other LTT people but the desperate attempt to get as many eyes on a video as possible is ridiculous at times. The "I didn't believe in AMD until now..." is especially bad considering he used their CPUs in their gaming lounge though.

[DarkSwordsman]

5 minutes ago, BlueGoliath said:

 

Agreed. IMO It would be nice if things went back to just Linus and Luke... not that I don't like the other LTT people but the desperate attempt to get as many eyes on a video as possible is ridiculous at times. The "I didn't believe in AMD until now..." is especially bad considering he used their CPUs in their gaming lounge though.

Honestly, I'm surprised so many people are still so annoyed by the titles and thumbnails. They've said multiple times that they're just playing into the algorithm. They can be all high and mighty and not do it, but then they likely slice their revenue clean in half, or lower.

 

If you look at the Floatplane titles, they are generally more to the point like you're saying. They still use the same thumbnails, but why would they generate another thumbnail?

[BlueGoliath]

 

12 minutes ago, DarkSwordsman said:

First of all, where did they say "top-tier performance"? You didn't provide a source for that.

 

 

12 minutes ago, DarkSwordsman said:

Secondly, the 1000 and 2000 series were not as powerful as this recent 3000 series. And as news just released today, the 3000 series should be seeing a little bit of a boost, especially for overclockers, with a new BIOS update.

 

That does nothing for 1st and 2nd generation owners nor does it make them "top-tier".

 

12 minutes ago, DarkSwordsman said:

Lastly, why would you say that their CS:GO tests aren't indicative of real-world performance, and that it shouldn't be used as a benchmark?

 

It doesn't in anyway stress hardware the same as an actual map(Dust 2 for example). Even worse, it triggers a power limit performance limit which no other game would do normally on my GTX 1080(215 watt default cap). CS:GO in an actual map would never do this. It isn't representative. 

 

edit: and FPS isn't nowhere as high as the benchmarks show either...

[AngryBeaver]

Here is the deal with Ryzen. It changed the CPU game again. The first and second gen didn't exactly beat intel in performance for games, but they DID pull off some big wins on the productivity side. Then they came at intel with pricing that was almost impossible for them to beat. So you got more cores for LESS money. This after coming off the bulldozer refreshes that had trash IPC.

 

Now we have the 3rd gen Ryzen which had massive IPC improvements. Are on a 7nm node that is much more efficient. Are giving you WAY more for the price of an intel chip and are within 5-7% on average when it comes to fps. That while killing them in productivity.

 

So yes I would say they have top tier performance. 

[Dabombinable]

21 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

A lot of effort went into a post that is simply explained away by newer Windows updates, Driver updates, BIOS versions and micro-code updates. AMD is simply the CPU of choice for most people in 2019.  

My next CPU will be an R5 3600 or R7 3700 simply because AMD is the best value by far at pretty much all price points. It'll be my first desktop AMD CPU since the venerable 386 DX-40 (not really sure if the K6-2 500 counts, since I got that from my aunt with its original mobo from 1999 in 2015).
 

Should probably replace the 386 with a 486, since the FPU socket doubles as a socket for them.

[DarkSwordsman]

@BlueGoliath I went back through your post and watched all the sources you supplied.

 

First of all, if you listen carefully, you can hear the context at this timestamp: 

 

Quote

Well, if you bought an X370 board and a 1700x on release in 2017, you would've been able to enjoy top-tier performance for a year.

And, if you just hated the feeling of running last-gen hardware, you could flip the 1700x for about 75% of the original price when the 2700x arrived. Another year of bliss and then another flip when the 3700x came on sale.

I don't know about you, and you're probably going to argue this for some reason, but it's pretty clear to me that the "top-tier performance" is relative to AMD's lineup and the year of 2017 until the release of the 2700x, and same until the release of the 3700x. Not only that, but consider the title literally has "AMD Ryzen 2nd vs 3rd Gen" in it, it's pretty clear that the scope of this video is AMD and their "upgrade cycle" [5:42 in the same video].

 

On 9/3/2019 at 7:43 PM, BlueGoliath said:

That does nothing for 1st and 2nd generation owners nor does it make them "top-tier".

Again, bouncing off my last point, "top-tier" was relative to each year/generation for the Ryzen lineup only. Also, my statement there about the 3000 series being powerful and a BIOS update coming was to bring up a couple things:

 

- AMD has improved from 1st, to 2nd, and 3rd gen Ryzen drastically, with the 2nd to 3rd gen being the biggest jump

- AMD is now very competitive with Intel ever since they started throwing Threadripper in their faces

- Sure, maybe still not "top-tier", but when you consider the closest thing Intel currently has to a $500 3900x is a $1,000 9920X that has:

   - worse performance
   - runs on a significantly larger, hotter, and more power hungry lithography
   - requires a motherboard that's significantly more expensive, and doesn't benefit from PCIe 4.0
it's pretty fricken' top-tier at the point, especially for people looking for workstations. 
- Not to mention, AMD is already on 7nm. Intel is barely ready to ship their 10nm process.

 

Edit, since I accdidentally tabbed and hit enter:

 

Lastly, you speak of their CS:GO test not being strong enough. While I don't have a source of their tests, neither do you. Who's to say they aren't smart enough to at least run a couple rounds with bots (more intensive, less realistic) or on a causal game (less intensive, more realistic)? Would they really just sit on a map alone and walk around without anyone else or throwing smokes, etc.? I doubt it.

 

Again, I personally don't see why you're making such a big deal out of this. I think you fail to realize context and can't seem to take into account more than just a few snippets of text and abstracted sources. I haven't found anything relative to this conversation where LTT has blatantly lied or was hypocritical. 

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, DarkSwordsman said:

maybe still not "top-tier"

No, it's top tier. The 1700-1800X were competitive with the 6700K and 7700K. They traded *some* gaming and AVX performance for multicore performance, so Ryzen just wasn't offering a performance king.

[BlueGoliath]

 

 

Oh hey, a tech reviewer finally decided to ass blast AMD and other board partners. Unfortunately it was the result of a personal experience and not as a result of my rant:

 

Quote

Excuse me, but are you or are you not tech reviewers? Is it not your responsibility to review products fairly without bias, report on things that affect said products(BIOS/Firmware update bugs), and criticize companies when they do something bad? Why are you just sitting there and shrugging like you're some innocent bystander and not a channel with over 9 million subscribers and major industry influence who reviews these products and follows the industry? YOU should be ass-blasting them for breaking their promises, but instead you're basically kissing their ass. Really?

 

Furthermore, why does LTT keep ignoring BIOS/Firmware screwups from AMD and their board partners? There was a major firmware bug that affected many Ryzen systems in Frostbite engine games which didn't get fixed for months. Absolutely no coverage on that whatsoever. What about motherboard vendors reducing the features on their motherboards? Does LTT even use more than one motherboard/BIOS version unless they absolutely have to switch to something else? It took Asrock over 10 BIOS versions to get the HD UEFI to run at good performance with their Taichi X370! How can you even claim that your reviews are representative when you don't ever seem to test with any other motherboards/BIOS versions? Why do you pretend like the platform doesn't matter when clearly motherboard manufacturers can and will violate specifications in order to get better results on their boards?

 

 

And how many times does AMD need to screwup before you and other tech YouTubers realize that AMD is, as they've historically always been, inept when it comes to drivers and firmware? How many "forgot to add UEFI firmware to our GPU" level moments does it take for you to start criticizing them? At what point do you take off the training wheels on a huge long-established corporation with a record of bad driver/firmware releases and start calling them out for it? 

 

 

...but it works... and I was right.

 

The YouTube responses are glorious as well:

 

Quote

You're a reviewer. If a product doesn't meet the spec that it'll rated and marketing,. It matters and it isn't nitpicking. That's called doing your damn job to be honest

 

Since when was calling companies out a reviewers job? They are just innocent bystanders with *only* millions of subscribers! They have as much power and influence as anyone else! It's part of life that this happens, you know?

 

*shrug*

 

Right, LTT?

 

(sorry, I had to throw some well deserved shade)

 

Quote

I went into this expecting a flame of AMD, but I watched it and went, "Well, at least I'm not the only one with the issue, it's not something I fucked up with a bad OC."

 

 

Quote

I updated my bios on my Asus x570 Crosshair viii and it also bricked my motherboard.

 

 

If JayzTwoCents, a channel with way fewer subscribers and influence, can and has no problem with ass blasting AMD for this and other previous quality problems, why aren't you LTT? 

[imreloadin]

7 minutes ago, BlueGoliath said:

If JayzTwoCents, a channel with way fewer subscribers and influence, can and has no problem with ass blasting AMD for this and other previous quality problems, why aren't you LTT?

They're too busy catering to the lowest common denominator to do high level topics like that

[Spotty]

- Threads Merged -

Considering the new post largely just consists of quotes of this topic, and the remainder only expands on the points you raise here, it's best if you continue the discussion in this thread.

[Jtalk4456]

well... that was an interesting little thread.

On 9/3/2019 at 12:23 AM, BlueGoliath said:

1. Note: tried to make this reasonably calm

2. Then you take simply misleading to downright being idiotic territory in your LTT gaming lounge video when you compared Intel Vs. AMD gaming performance, . Since freaking when is the massive performance difference in CS:GO and Apex Legends on AMD Vs. Intel not a big deal?

3. And of course, the video shows that AMD once again is beaten by Intel.

4. OK, so why aren't you or anyone else for that matter calling them out for that? They promised full forwards compatibility when they first revealed the AM4 socket, didn't they? Aren't you supposed to criticize them for that? Hello?

5. Excuse me, but are you or are you not tech reviewers? Is it not your responsibility to review products fairly without bias, report on things that affect said products(BIOS/Firmware update bugs), and criticize companies when they do something bad?

6. Furthermore, why does LTT keep ignoring BIOS/Firmware screwups from AMD and their board partners?

7. Your reviews aren't even long. Why not bump those reviews to 12 minutes at least by spending time talking about the underlying platform? Why not revisit these motherboards in a roundup every month or so and compare performance? 

8. Why not give honest, complete, and fair reviews?

1. *Proceeds to use foul language, insult anyone in sight, and generally not be calm at all...

2. See 1

3. By a small margin in gaming, which is not the ONLY reason to buy a computer believe it or not. Your definition of "Beat" is extremely subjective. If intel is an 11 and AMD is a 8 or 9, but Intel costs 2x as much and loses in productivity numbers, that's not a "beat" in my books. I care about more than raw benchmarking numbers in top of the line games. And no I'm not claiming those numbers to be real from anywhere, just an example.

4. No they aren't SUPPOSED to do anything. How they handle their news and reviews is a choice they get to make. It's not your business and you don't get to accuse them of not running it the way you would run it because it's theirs not yours. I don't believe they are lacking in honest reviews and criticizing, but for comparison's sake, Fox news has put out reports supporting blatant lies and nonsense. I don't like them but i'm not boycotting them, because it's their choice. And it's my choice as a consumer to choose whether I listen to them or not, the same as it's your choice if you don't think linus is being honest or representative to not watch them. Now some will come back with the "if you don't think it's right change it instead of just not paying attention" argument. And that's fine. You have every right to voice your opinion on the forum, but cussing and insulting everyone and putting words in people's mouths is not the way to calmly voice your opinion. 

5. Again no it's not their responsibility, it's their choice. If they choose to made a video saying rasp pi is the best computer to play GTA on, that's their choice. It's their business.

6. Because there are very few who would stay awake in a motherboard video. There's a reason LTT has more subs and viewers than tech jesus. Sometimes deep diving into a less glamorous topic for 30 minutes makes for a less glamorous video... whodathunk

7. see 6

8. I think they do, and so do many other people on the forum and youtube. I'm not saying they are without fault or slip ups at times, but they always try and give fair opinions as far as I've ever seen. (Except for the vaccuum whose name shall remain unspoken XD)

On 9/3/2019 at 12:36 AM, BlueGoliath said:

Really? Must have missed the YouTube videos where GTA 5 was running better on an 1800x than a 7700k. Got a link to a benchmark?

 

On 9/3/2019 at 12:41 AM, DrMacintosh said:

That's funny because I never claimed that it did. 

 

On 9/3/2019 at 12:48 AM, BlueGoliath said:

I do believe you did. How do any of those things make a 1800x as good as a 7700k or in other words, top-tier performing for gaming for the time.

You can keep believing that, but it doesn't make you right. Nothing of the sort was ever said, and you're conflating a single chip that exists in the top tier as being the lowest and/or only

 

performance that can exist in the top tier. By that same logic I could say that you're insinuating the 7700K should be able to beat the 9900K. They are both top tier, but you didn't say 7700k was the BEST, nor did @DrMacintosh say that the 1800x can beat a 7700k

On 9/3/2019 at 1:13 AM, BlueGoliath said:

1. Sure, not everyone plays CS:GO but the fact that the 1800x can't even achieve stable 60FPS in GTA 5 online is kind of a big deal. In some games it doesn't matter that much while in others it does.

2. Still, the irony of an AMD CPU being outperformed by a older Intel one is ironic.

3. Why would I be an Intel fanboy if I had an AMD CPU? Hello?

4. 9 million people are subscribed to them and presumably trust what they say and buy what they recommend.

1. Here's 3 videos I found in a quick search with an 1800x in 2 vids and a 1700 x in the other with gtx 1080 (non ti) or worse running gtav with stable 60 fps or higher

Spoiler

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn6XBFto1aI (not sure why that didn't embed oh well)

.

 

2. Not when AMD was playing a massive catch up game. 

3. I am an AMD fan, but I have a 4th gen i5, that doesn't mean I'm automatically an intel fanboy. That's not how preferences vs life works.

4. Presumably = I have assumed everything I am stating but I am stating it as a fact anyways, because that makes for a "fair and honest review" of the subject we are discussing.

On 9/3/2019 at 1:31 AM, BlueGoliath said:

Ah, so you fall on that side of the political spectrum.

I didn't realize being logical and having a distaste for unsupported accusations and opinion while blasting everyone who responds to a question you posed is a political side. If that's the case, then I'm on whatever that imaginary side of the spectrum is too.

On 9/3/2019 at 1:42 AM, BlueGoliath said:

This isn't about reviews but coverage of it in general. Point me to a tech reviewer that mentions BIOS/firmware bugs, please. 

This isn't about REVIEWS, but about coverage of a product (REVIEWS). Point me to a REVIEWER who ....

Mmhmm...

So all in all, you posed a question, phrased with "Why"

On 9/3/2019 at 12:23 AM, BlueGoliath said:

Why do you flip flop so much?

Then when people answered the question you posted on a forum made by the group you're trying to go off on without completely agreeing with you, you are surprised, offended and start arguing at every turn and insulting people for answering your question. You put words in their mouths they didn't say, you conflate tiers and compare things with a certainty that can only be matched by simple empirical evidence found in ten seconds of googling, and you call someone's distaste of your attitude a political side somehow. 

And all this is prefaced with I'm being perfectly calm and I don't wanna get banned please let me know if I'm being rude or mean so I can fix it first. 

Well I'm letting you know. your attitude is deplorable, your argument rests on opinion that most of it is based on your assumptions or statements proven to not be true, and if you need proof I'm not just an LTT fanboy unfairly judging you, just look at the community warning on your post.

I rest my case and I'll be leaving now to sleep and enjoy time away from stuff like this.

[BlueGoliath]

Quote

Here's 3 videos I found in a quick search with an 1800x in 2 vids and a 1700 x in the other with gtx 1080 (non ti) or worse running gtav with stable 60 fps or higher

 

>provides supposed video evidence that GTA 5 Online can run stable 60fps

 

>fps drops multiple times under 60, sometimes into the 40s.

 

>is singleplayer which is a little less demanding that online.

 

I'd laugh but it's actually depressing how badly you people believe this yet provide "evidence" that contradicts your own claims.

 

Hey, where is that 100+ FPS average that someone claimed the 1800x was capable of earlier? I wanna see video "evidence" of GTA 5 online hitting that.

 

Quote

You can keep believing that, but it doesn't make you right. Nothing of the sort was ever said, and you're conflating a single chip that exists in the top tier as being the lowest and/or only

 

performance that can exist in the top tier. 

 

Specifically? No. That person made quick succession generalized statements that could be broadly applied to a lot of things. if you don't want people making specific contradictory counter arguments that easily disprove bad generalized statements then... don't make them? It didn't even seem like they even read the post, only skimmed it and commented since it was posted so fast...

 

 

Quote

Proceeds to use foul language, insult anyone in sight, and generally not be calm at all...

 

You mean after the kit-kat image, derailing, and mockery/trolling that has since been largely removed? Ah well, maybe if some people could learn how to make constructive arguments instead of posting memes maybe things would have turned out differently. You get nasty with me and I'll give it back no problems. The original post was perfectly fine but some people can't behave. It's not like someone disagreed nicely earlier and I thanked them for it. Nope, didn't happen. Not. At. All.

 

I can only imagine what a crapshow that thread a year or so ago about how bad LTT's video titles are here was. Nearly every comment was probably dismissing how bad they actually are and probably people saying that if people don't like they can watch other channels. A few kit-kat images where probably thrown in for good "constructive" discussion as well.

 

 

Oh btw, that super secret, totally exclusive FPS benchmark LTT uses in their reviews is actually a free workshop map anyone can download. Oh and hey, it even shows up if you search for "csgo fps benchmark". Better yet, it's shown being ran in the background in their first generation Ryzen review. Must mean they used some other FPS benchmark that happened to look exactly the same, right? 

 

While I doubt it would have helped much since people can neither read nor watch videos(see above) but this is in part LTT's fault. They should have linked the map. They don't always go into depth about the hardware they test on or what BIOS settings they use either, which was in part the point of the OP that has since been ignored and buried.

 

Once again, their reviews are incredibly inconsistent At least they didn't forget the affiliate links. That's the most important thing in any review, I guess.

 

[Jtalk4456]

2 hours ago, BlueGoliath said:

1. provides supposed video evidence that GTA 5 Online can run stable 60fps

fps drops multiple times under 60, sometimes into the 40s.

is singleplayer which is a little less demanding that online.

2. I'd laugh but it's actually depressing how badly you people believe this yet provide "evidence" that contradicts your own claims.

3. Hey, where is that 100+ FPS average that someone claimed the 1800x was capable of earlier? I wanna see video "evidence" of GTA 5 online hitting that.

4. Specifically? No. That person made quick succession generalized statements that could be broadly applied to a lot of things. if you don't want people making specific contradictory counter arguments that easily disprove bad generalized statements then... don't make them? It didn't even seem like they even read the post, only skimmed it and commented since it was posted so fast...

5. You get nasty with me and I'll give it back no problems.

6. It's not like someone disagreed nicely earlier and I thanked them for it. Nope, didn't happen. Not. At. All.

7. Nearly every comment was probably dismissing how bad they actually are and probably people saying that if people don't like they can watch other channels. A few kit-kat images where probably thrown in for good "constructive" discussion as well.

8. Oh btw, that super secret, totally exclusive FPS benchmark LTT uses in their reviews is actually a free workshop map anyone can download. Oh and hey, it even shows up if you search for "csgo fps benchmark". Better yet, it's shown being ran in the background in their first generation Ryzen review. Must mean they used some other FPS benchmark that happened to look exactly the same, right? 

While I doubt it would have helped much since people can neither read nor watch videos(see above) but this is in part LTT's fault. They should have linked the map. They don't always go into depth about the hardware they test on or what BIOS settings they use either, which was in part the point of the OP that has since been ignored and buried.

9. Once again, their reviews are incredibly inconsistent At least they didn't forget the affiliate links. That's the most important thing in any review, I guess.

 

1. you asked for video showing it maintaining 60 or higher which all three videos show it maintaining for long periods of time. If you're not gonna accept the evidence because it's not showing it going at 100 fps, well then you don't understand how evidence and language and arguments work, which has been evident thus far. I can play minecraft on my current computer at 150-200 fps with ease, but if I walk past 3 creepers and they all explode, my rates will fall for a moment and then return to stable numbers. Just because it occasionally hits a lower number than 60 doesn't mean the rest of the time it's unstable. This is just basic critical thinking. Also I never made any claims on the online performance, which is more than a "little" bit more demanding. This is you again making claims that were never made and using these false statements to evaluate our argument.

2. I'd laugh but it's actually quite sad how little perspective you hold without making claims that we said it would do this or that at this exact fps with these exact conditions, never once dropping even for a second like every other game in existence. You seem to lack basic critical thinking skills on comparing objects fairly.

3. More claims that no one ever said you'd see, but we're somehow wrong cuz you claimed we claimed it and we have no evidence of the unrealistic standard that you said we said it could acheive.

4. There was no quick succession generalization, this was simply a comment that didn't line up with your opinion, so you took personal offence to it and lashed back with insult instead of reasoned thinking, as you did for most everyone who commented on this. Also speaking of a lack orf reasoned thinking, I see you could come up with no explanation or rebuttal for how  a dislike of your attitude is a political belief. As a matter of fact you barely responded to any of what I said, and when you did respond, you responded to claims I didn't make and arguments I didn't make. I never said the videos showed it running perfect never dropping for even a second below 60 fps.

"While I doubt it would have helped much since people can neither read nor watch videos", yet somehow you don't read or watch either based on how you respond.

5. Yep calm and collected.

6. You're right that didn't happen. People responded normally and you didn't thank them for answering your question like you asked them to do. Not. At. All.

7. Not sure what "kit kat" images are unless you're talking pictures of candy bars, but I don't really care either. putting quotations around something without any provided evidence of your accusations doesn't make you right or any of us wrong. Also using the often wasteland that is Youtube comments as an argument against a group of people on a forum is a ridiculous generalization on your part, something you seem to be accusing others of.

8. I'm not an expert on benchmarking or motherboards or bios settings. I don't honestly suspect you are either after this trainwreck of a conversation. Having said that, you're trying to tell everyone here that the way things are being done sucks. any feedback you get (remember you asked a question, meaning you wanted a response) has been met with dismissal, generalizations, false accusations, and generally rude responses. So let's try this. YOU make a youtube channel or other media form where YOU discuss these topics the way YOU want to. If you get followers, they will be evidence to YOU that someone IS interested in doing things the way YOU want them done. Then YOU can stop ridiculing people for commenting on a topic YOU asked them to comment on and YOU can enjoy YOUR own echo chamber where YOUR followers just say that YOUR way is perfect .

What I'm saying is:

Put your effort where your mouth is, show us how it's done. We've provided evidence to the contrary of your argument. You've ignored and dismissed it because it does not meet your otherworldly expectations of perfection, but you have yet to provide a lick of evidence to your argument, only opinion and stated "facts" with no supporting evidence. So instead of trolling and starting flamewars with strangers on a forum, how about you fix the problem you see by doing it your way on your own channel. And if you provide quality reasoning, evidence, and make good content, we'll come watch.

9. For a guy starting a company from scratch with no startup capital and employing many people and taking care of said employees, making sure to provide them all the best tools and equipment and even an entire lan gaming center as you so frequently mentioned, yes making money is important. Quite a shocker I suppose that something as simple as posting a link in a description is easier than meeting your specific beliefs of what technology reviewing media should be.

10. Have fun responding to only half of this or less like you did last time. I will not be wasting anymore time trying to explain basic critical thinking skills to you or diving down to the level of non-productive banter you enjoy. Have an excellent day.

[Princess Twilight Sparkle]

OP you need to type up your build and head over to the Troubleshooting forum, you're clearly having performance issues that others are not despite similar hardware.

[Tristerin]

What is this thread?  I read Page 2 comments and:

 

GTA 5 on my R7 1700 @ 1080p w/ R9 Fury (non X) at Ultra settings everything maxed out including AA is averaging 80 - 100 FPS.  With 3600mhz RAM.  With 3200mhz ram iirc it was in the 70s (but over 60 FPS no problem lol), with 2133mhz ram 50 FPS average.

 

EDIT - that's at stock settings.  With my overclock I average 120 FPS in GTA5, figured I should mention that.

[BlueGoliath]

4 hours ago, Tristerin said:

What is this thread?  I read Page 2 comments and:

 

GTA 5 on my R7 1700 @ 1080p w/ R9 Fury (non X) at Ultra settings everything maxed out including AA is averaging 80 - 100 FPS.  With 3600mhz RAM.  With 3200mhz ram iirc it was in the 70s (but over 60 FPS no problem lol), with 2133mhz ram 50 FPS average.

 

EDIT - that's at stock settings.  With my overclock I average 120 FPS in GTA5, figured I should mention that.

 

Getting 3600Mhz on first generation is a bit hard to believe but maybe on certain 2 DIMMM kits it is possible now after AMD partially fixed their crappy memory support. What insane voltage is the memory controller running at?

 

Also, it does dip under 60. You're probably just jumping into the same area to see FPS which is less demanding than other areas in the game.