GTA V: Real money for fake gambling

[ne0tic]

18 hours ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

I tested GTA V when I built my new rig back in Jan... and that was the first time I'd played it in about a year and not played it since.

 

The whole game has gone down the toilet, it's the worst kind of grind fest to do anything online... I refuse to pander to this insipid practice of trying to con people out of their money. So I won't play it anymore... their loss.

 

Rockstar are rapidly becoming a real competitor to EA for the title of gaming company you would most like to take out back and put a bullet in their head for good of all gamers.

Yeah, the grinding nowadays in GTA are hella annoying. Takes like 250 hours to get $25 million... And no one should buy shark cards since they are quite a bad value... You have to find hackers that are willing to give you money! I’ve earned about $40 million legit and gotten about $180 million from hackers. And somehow I’ve spent it all...

[Master Disaster]

18 hours ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

Belgium banned all forms of in game gambling... UK just ruled that as the law currently stands... things like the Fifa loot boxes (and this GTA V casino) are 'technically' not gambling as the law isn't sufficiently clear regarding digital goods.

 

So let's hope they do something to amend the law to ban this nasty insidious practice.

Not entirely accurate, the loophole is because current gambling laws in England state that prizes must have a real world monetary value. It has nothing to do with things being digital or not. Digital gambling and casinos exist here and are fully licensed to operate.

 

If you can't turn the prize into real world cash, and it has to be officially offered by the gaming service so third party websites offering cash outs do not count, then under current laws it's not technically gambling.

[Anomnomnomaly]

30 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Not entirely accurate, the loophole is because current gambling laws in England state that prizes must have a real world monetary value. It has nothing to do with things being digital or not. Digital gambling and casinos exist here and are fully licensed to operate.

 

If you can't turn the prize into real world cash, and it has to be officially offered by the gaming service so third party websites offering cash outs do not count, then under current laws it's not technically gambling.

Thanks, you put it better than I did... it's kinda what I was trying to say.

[The King of the Undead]

we just want a game where you shoot people and steal cars. Is that to much?

[Bananasplit_00]

I quit right around the time when hacking started becoming universal, not downloading that shit again. Took 48h when I first did lmao

[TechyBen]

14 minutes ago, will4623 said:

we just want a game where you shoot people and steal cars. Is that to much?

In Mother Rockstar, Game shoots you and steals wallet.

 

[Totallycasual]

Prior to GTA Online, Rockstar was up there with Naughty Dog as one of my favorite studios.  They sold their soul to the devil with GTA Online and i have grave fears about how much content will be cut from GTA 6 in order to funnel people into the inevitable online component.  If it wasn't for Red Dead 2 single player i'd place Rockstar down with the EA and Ubisoft types. 

[IWannaBeUniqueMom]

I don't see what's the problem here?

 

You earn money in game by making missions and then use it to buy chips to gamble and make more money.

 

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

 

I bought the game when it came out on PC and I love it! But I hate the p2p method hat is used for multiplayer.

[TechyBen]

1 minute ago, IWannaBeUniqueMom said:

I don't see what's the problem here?

 

You earn money in game by making missions and then use it to buy chips to gamble and make more money.

 

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

 

I bought the game when it came out on PC and I love it! But I hate the p2p method hat is used for multiplayer.

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

(I'm not FORCING you to ban me for posting too much... honest... it's entirely up to you to stop reading my post)

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money.

Do you get the point? These games/systems/developers/publishers are predatory, exploitative and generally scams (as it's digital, there is no way to check "odds" and confirm the "house" is not cheating).

[Sauron]

Well, gambling isn't illegal (in most western countries) so this probably shouldn't be either - there should just be a big fat advisory on the box (or on steam or whatever) saying that the game contains real gambling so parents and problem gamblers can steer clear of it. Which of course Rockstar doesn't want to do because it would cost them customers. I would also argue that problem gamblers and parents who bought the game before it had gambling in it should be able to demand a refund.

 

If you want to argue that gambling as a whole should be illegal because it prays on sick people I might be on board with that but that seems like a broader issue than just GTA V doing it.

17 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

My personal theory is they saw the writing on the wall during the last two years and this is one last major cash grab to hoover up as much money as possible before the laws forcing age limits and gambling regulation come down on top of the video game industry.

Yes, sadly, it's nothing new.

[Murasaki]

GTA Online is still a thing? Yikes.

[peger]

24 minutes ago, IWannaBeUniqueMom said:

Nobody is forcing you to spend real money

Nobody is forcing you to go with a pedophile who gives you candy.

Nobody is forcing you to buy drugs from the dealer.

Nobody is forcing you...

 

These things are not directed to you or other "John" or "Frank".  People who don't spend any money or buy "one loot box for a month".  The main target are whales with various problems like addictive personality  who will spend thousands of dollars to taste this sweet dopamine shot.

 

At least in the casino you can win real $$$.

 

[TechyBen]

7 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

what do the flags mean? o_o haven't been following GTA mechanics for too long ._.

Was a poor attempt at a "mother russia" joke.

 

[TechyBen]

20 hours ago, Sauron said:

Well, gambling isn't illegal (in most western countries) so this probably shouldn't be either - there should just be a big fat advisory on the box (or on steam or whatever) saying that the game contains real gambling so parents and problem gamblers can steer clear of it. Which of course Rockstar doesn't want to do because it would cost them customers. I would also argue that problem gamblers and parents who bought the game before it had gambling in it should be able to demand a refund.

 

If you want to argue that gambling as a whole should be illegal because it prays on sick people I might be on board with that but that seems like a broader issue than just GTA V doing it.

Yes, sadly, it's nothing new.

It is regulated. GTA is not currently regulated.

[Sauron]

20 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

It is regulated. GTA is not currently regulated.

Fair.

[Video Beagle]

On 7/25/2019 at 9:38 AM, TechyBen said:

Do you get the point? These games/systems/developers/publishers are predatory, exploitative and generally scams (as it's digital, there is no way to check "odds" and confirm the "house" is not cheating). 

But it's a game.  There's no way to check that the dude shooting at you isn't "cheating" when he bullseys you, either.

[TechyBen]

1 hour ago, Video Beagle said:

But it's a game.  There's no way to check that the dude shooting at you isn't "cheating" when he bullseys you, either.

You did not pay money for the individual match/round or take a game of "chance" for the gameplay though. You did for the "loot" box.

[mr moose]

If there is any way to convert your winings back into real dollars then they will require a license to operate in Australia.  Such a license means they have to ensure all players are over 18 or they face huge fines.  And yes, the law holds the establishment responsible for that. 

 

 

[wANKER]

For the £30 I bought it for a few year ago, GTA V has been by far the best value game I've ever bought. 

 

I don't think people realise the scale of the game - and just how much content is there. 

I've managed to get to a fairly high 'level' in GTA - and own the majority of update content, without ever buying a Shark Card. 

 

So for me personally, I don't hold any grudges against R* for taking the route they've taken with GTA V in regard to post-purchase cash flow.

 

As for the underage point, that's on the parents.

 

[StoneyMahoney]

While it is entirely true that Rockstar have finally opened their in-game casino, that it's entirely true that you can buy in-game currency and convert that money into chips in the casino, and that on the surface this seems shady AF in the current atmosphere of loot boxes, FIFA player packs etc, there are some details that no major news outlet I've seen (and I've skimmed through a lot of them) has bothered to mention. The source used for the story on the WAN Show last night (the BBC) is the only one that even mentioned the most important aspect of the online casino that completely changes the spin on the whole story and effectively turns it into a non issue.

 

There are hard limits on the amount of in-game currency you can exchange for casino chips per in-game day

 

An in-game day lasts 48 realtime minutes. The amount of in-game money you're allowed to convert starts out at $20,000 and can be raised to $50,000 by purchasing player housing at the casino itself, for a minimum cost of $1.5million. So let's assume you're funding your gambling habit purely on the worst deal you can get on Shark Cards - 2.99 USD for $100,000. This worst-case scenario puts the maximum real money expenditure at 1.87 USD PER HOUR. It's extremely unlikely that ANYONE would need to fund gambling through Shark Cards. Gamesradar has a guide page that details methods for making money in-game, sorted by profits per hundred K $ per hour.

 

Something else no-one bothered to mention in the mainstream press, GTA V has had far quicker soaks for real-money in place for years. Fancy blowing 99.99 USD on a "Megalodon" tier Shark Card and then chewing through every penny of the $100 million in-game dollars that gets you in 5 minutes flat? Sure thing! Buy yourself a fighter jet a couple super cards, job done!

 

While there are still problems with letting teenagers spend real-money on any type of gambling, especially fake gambling you can't get your money back from, the tiny amounts of money that Rockstar has limited this to makes a huge difference to the story - most gambling establishments try to reduce the hurdles between your money and their bank account and do their best to transfer the former to the latter at the fastest rate possible - Rockstar are absolutely bucking this trend and should be applauded for having the most responsible approach to in-game gambling of any major game dev currently shipping games.

 

Final note: exposing children to gambling? Nintendo did that back when the first Pokemon game came out - remember the Team Rocket controlled casino?

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

i'm sorry am i supposed to feel sympathy for rockstar for constantly releasing new DLC's that requires ingame money to buy a building to start that set mision that's so high that is a incentive for users to buy sharkcards to even start a set DLC? 

you can't buy shit even if you spend and get the 8 Mil shark card 

[Fasauceome]

Gambling is gambling, the amount is irrelevant.

[Spotty]

3 minutes ago, StoneyMahoney said:

There are hard limits on the amount of in-game currency you can exchange for casino chips per in-game day

 

An in-game day lasts 48 realtime minutes. The amount of in-game money you're allowed to convert starts out at $20,000 and can be raised to $50,000 by purchasing player housing at the casino itself, for a minimum cost of $1.5million. So let's assume you're funding your gambling habit purely on the worst deal you can get on Shark Cards - 2.99 USD for $100,000. This worst-case scenario puts the maximum real money expenditure at 1.87 USD PER HOUR.

What happens if Rockstar changes this in an update in a few weeks time? Nothing stopping Rockstar from changing the limit from 20,000 to 200,000. Or removing the limit completely.

 

18 minutes ago, StoneyMahoney said:

Something else no-one bothered to mention in the mainstream press, GTA V has had far quicker soaks for real-money in place for years. Fancy blowing 99.99 USD on a "Megalodon" tier Shark Card and then chewing through every penny of the $100 million in-game dollars that gets you in 5 minutes flat? Sure thing! Buy yourself a fighter jet a couple super cards, job done! 

If I had to play devil's advocate to argue for Rockstar, this would be my argument. Rockstar has allowed Shark Card purchases for a long time to be used for in-game items such as cars, planes, houses, businesses, etc. You're essentially handing over real world money in exchange for something in the game that you hope will enhance your enjoyment and playing experience. I would say however though that gambling is distinctively different though. The other in game items you purchase become tied to your account and the cars stay in your garage and the building stays unlocked (until you sell them that is). Gambling on the other hand is by nature designed to take from you, and is also designed to be addictive and entice people in to continue gambling.  When you gamble the chips in game there is a real possibility that you will be losing those virtual items.

 

I'm honestly not going to go down the whole narrative of "Gambling is bad and it's a bad influence on teenagers playing the game to let them gamble as they may end up doing it in real life". It's GTA V. They can run over people in the street and shoot cops.

 

12 minutes ago, StoneyMahoney said:

Final note: exposing children to gambling? Nintendo did that back when the first Pokemon game came out - remember the Team Rocket controlled casino?

Huge difference here. That never involved real money; only virtual in game currency. (and it's not like you couldn't just save before playing and then reload the save if you lose).

 

 

The real question is how does Rockstar fix this?
I think it's easy. Make it so that casino chips cannot be purchased with in-game cash (and by extension real life currency). Make the casino chips a unique currency that are earned from playing the game. You do a few missions, get some cash like normal and in addition to that it also gives you a few casino chips. Maybe some unique missions to the casino where they pay you for completing the mission in chips. Be creative with it. You can still have it so that chips can be cashed in for in-game currency, or perhaps other items such as Casino exclusive items like a fancy suit or fancy car. Just don't let players purchase chips with [real] money.

[lewdicrous]

How much is r* paying for this defense?

[ramm]

Isn't GTA 18+ anyway?

 

So shooting people is fine, picking up hookers, using them and murdering to get your money back is fine, but as soon as gambling or a hot coffee mod comes everyone loses their shit?